SPECTRE: Thomas Newman is Back! (appreciation topic)

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  • Posts: 11,119
    suavejmf wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    As time passes The score from Casino Royale has become more iconic for me. It is some of Arnolds best work and has it's own Identity.

    Yep. Newman is ok, would have preffered Arnold (a Bond fan, not just Mendes friend)!

    I think David Arnold's best scores so far have been TND and TWINE. No doubt about it...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I'll personally take SF over TWINE's score any day of the week and twice on Sunday..TWINE's score for me is exactly what has been wrong with the post-Barry era.

    TND was decent enough but I found overuse of the Bond theme (which I know many on here want) and too much scratchy electronica.

    CR & in particular QoS came closer to what a Bond score should sound like imho (grand) but sounded creatively too derivative of Barry to me, while being noticeably inferior. Like the work of a fanboy rather than an established creative composer.

    As I said earlier, I felt that Martin, Hamlisch and even Kamen brought the Bond sound while bringing their own creative touch/spin to it, and therefore I rank their non-Barry scores highest. Newman's SF sits just below that to my ears because while he brought his own creative spin (which I appreciate) it was just dialed down too much. He needs to amp it up for SP. Be bolder.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Murdock wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    There hasn't been a "memorable" score come out of the series in decades.
    Oh that's not true at all. There have been plenty of good Bond scores post Barry.

    For us Bond fans, yes...but not for "huge hordes" of moviegoers, as described in the posts I was responding to.
  • If you go for bombastic music, and if you fail, there's nothing to save you. But if you go for subtlety, then if you fail, some will defend you by explaining it is so subtle that poor ears simply can't get it :) It's like comedy and drama !

    "New Digs" may be a nice theme musically speaking, but frankly I've yet to understand why the oriental mood of the theme is so strong, given we had left Istanbul a few minutes before. In movie music language, IMO, this theme means we should hear again from Istanbul in the scene.

    And to read after all these years so much credit put on the Awards to judge someone's work is surreal frankly. I think there's at least one common point in the franchise that many here agree upon, whether they love SF or whether they have another personal opinion, and it's Daniel Craig, Mr Zero Academy Awards Nominations. And yet I've never seen a fan asking Eon to replace him, by, say, Jean Dujardin :)
  • Posts: 11,119
    If you go for bombastic music, and if you fail, there's nothing to save you. But if you go for subtlety, then if you fail, some will defend you by explaining it is so subtle that poor ears simply can't get it :) It's like comedy and drama !

    "New Digs" may be a nice theme musically speaking, but frankly I've yet to understand why the oriental mood of the theme is so strong, given we had left Istanbul a few minutes before. In movie music language, IMO, this theme means we should hear again from Istanbul in the scene.

    And to read after all these years so much credit put on the Awards to judge someone's work is surreal frankly. I think there's at least one common point in the franchise that many here agree upon, whether they love SF or whether they have another personal opinion, and it's Daniel Craig, Mr Zero Academy Awards Nominations. And yet I've never seen a fan asking Eon to replace him, by, say, Jean Dujardin :)

    What is that supposed to mean, "Daniel Craig, Mr Zero Academy Awards Nominations"?
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 2,015
    Well, it seems obvious isn't it, it means that Daniel Craig never had a Academy Award nomination in his entire career.

    For me, it is not a problem at all.

    But the fact that David Arnold never had a Academy Award nomination seems to be a relevant fact here for some. So I found it relevant to point out that Daniel Craig shares that "shame" with David Arnold...
  • Posts: 11,119
    Well, it seems obvious isn't it, it means that Daniel Craig never had a Academy Award nomination in his entire career.

    For me, it is not a problem at all.

    But the fact that David Arnold never had a Academy Award nomination seems to be a relevant fact here for some. So I found it relevant to point out that Daniel Craig shares that "shame" with David Arnold...

    Not for me :-). I think David Arnold never really deserved an Oscar. Daniel Craig however, I think he did! It's good you're pointing this out actually. For his portrayals in all his 3 Bond films he deserved an Oscar nomination.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited June 2015 Posts: 3,157
    Well, it seems obvious isn't it, it means that Daniel Craig never had a Academy Award nomination in his entire career.

    For me, it is not a problem at all.

    But the fact that David Arnold never had a Academy Award nomination seems to be a relevant fact here for some. So I found it relevant to point out that Daniel Craig shares that "shame" with David Arnold...

    Not for me :-). I think David Arnold never really deserved an Oscar. Daniel Craig however, I think he did! It's good you're pointing this out actually. For his portrayals in all his 3 Bond films he deserved an Oscar nomination.

    Daniel Craig deserved to win the oscar.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Winning or being nominated: In both cases I would feel honored :-).


    It is telling to with the Oscars. In here there's a lot of criticism about current blockbuster films. They lack originality, charm and soul.

    But when it comes down to the actual Award Ceremonies, like the Oscars, people in here want the big blockbusters ("Jurassic World", "Furious 7") to actually WIN an Oscar.

    I find that a bit.......weird....to put it mildly.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I just can't believe that people prefer this:


    Over this:


    "Time To Get Out" lacks any bit of James Bond theme, whereas "The Bloody Shot" continues in a beautiful rhythmn, without unnecessary breaks or pace changes. "The Bloody Shot" sounds way 'richer', thanks to a larger orchestra and better in-time rifs and string sections.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited July 2015 Posts: 16,351
    Both are good tracks. The Bloody Shot was one of the Better Newman tracks on the soundtrack.

    Though I'd take


    Over this.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I just can't believe that people prefer this:


    Over this:


    "Time To Get Out" lacks any bit of James Bond theme, whereas "The Bloody Shot" continues in a beautiful rhythmn, without unnecessary breaks or pace changes. "The Bloody Shot" sounds way 'richer', thanks to a larger orchestra and better in-time rifs and string sections.

    For me....

    "Time To Get Out" has tension and build up followed by a release along with a perfect balance between the elements of the orchestra meaning it gets loud without getting messy. The opening is wonderful and worked amazingly well with the visuals, while the latter parts are hectic and ballsy.

    "Take The Bloody Shot" does have the Bond theme and it's a pretty good statement of it at the right moment - but it's a track that is let down by the repetitive loops and electronic rythms straight out of the Remote Control school of film scoring.

    Newman uses Spectrasonics in a far less refined way than Arnold handled his electronic sounds, which made his orchestra sound less organic than it should have considering the size of the sections. That's why for me, the quieter sequences (Tennyson aside) of his score are the best.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Time to get out wipes the floor with take the bloody shot. Easily.
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Time to get out wipes the floor with take the bloody shot. Easily.

    Opinión. JUST an opinion. Which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I appreciate that you disagree but is it necessary to point out that my comment is an opinion? We're not 6 year olds declaring "facts". You're better than this @Gustav.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I respond with an equally short one-sentence like you did @doubleoego. One can expect a more thorough response with a breakdown of arguments, if that one person is doing exactly the same. Alas, you only say "Time To Get Out wipes the floor with The Bloody Shot"..
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2015 Posts: 3,157
    "Time To Get Out" lacks any bit of James Bond theme

    Not true. Listen to 1:00-1:13 and 3:11-3:18.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I respond with an equally short one-sentence like you did @doubleoego. One can expect a more thorough response with a breakdown of arguments, if that one person is doing exactly the same. Alas, you only say "Time To Get Out wipes the floor with The Bloody Shot"..

    The length of the sentence isn't the issue. It's the fact that you felt the need to point out the blatantly obvious.. twice. Your last sentence to my comment would have sufficed. Furthermore as @Walecs pointed out, which btw is a fact, Arnold incorporates cues of the Bond theme in time to get out. So you saying it lacks any bit of Bond theme is factually wrong.
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I respond with an equally short one-sentence like you did @doubleoego. One can expect a more thorough response with a breakdown of arguments, if that one person is doing exactly the same. Alas, you only say "Time To Get Out wipes the floor with The Bloody Shot"..

    The length of the sentence isn't the issue. It's the fact that you felt the need to point out the blatantly obvious.. twice. Your last sentence to my comment would have sufficed. Furthermore as @Walecs pointed out, which btw is a fact, Arnold incorporates cues of the Bond theme in time to get out. So you saying it lacks any bit of Bond theme is factually wrong.

    I think it's necessary to point out at times this "blatantly obvious". Because if I don't sometimes people get angry....plain irritated by me.

    It's not that I hold you for dumb okay? What holds discussions together on many occassions like these are open and clear agreements on disagreements. That's what I wanted to point out. And sorry to say this, but if you get irritated by such things, by me pointing out that it's just an opinion, then also look back at yourself and what you posted.

    I DO think that it's necessary to point out the length of your sentence. Because you basically had nothing to say. You stated one sentence that sounded like one big fact, devoid of any argumentation: "Time to get out wipes the floor with take the bloody shot. Easily.".

    By the way, @Walecs is right. I am sorry for my mistake. I listened to it again. And indeed, they are queues from Monty Norman's theme in it. But forgive me, they are way less obvious as compared to "The Bloody Shot". I even had to re-listen to it.


    One last thing: I prefer to communicate in a more elaborate way. I FOR INSTANCE get irritated by posts containing just one sentence. You can do better than that @doubleoego.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Let's keep it on topic, guys. No sense in arguing about one sentence replies when everyone is guilty of doing that all the time.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I like both the above tracks equally well, but I think the Newman one possesses more finesse. It's less pulsing on my eardrums. That's always been one of my major criticisms of Arnold (apart from his general lack of melody) - for my ears his action scoring was just loud noise and very tiresome.... Having said that, Time to Get Out is, in my opinion, one of his better works.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I respond with an equally short one-sentence like you did @doubleoego. One can expect a more thorough response with a breakdown of arguments, if that one person is doing exactly the same. Alas, you only say "Time To Get Out wipes the floor with The Bloody Shot"..

    The length of the sentence isn't the issue. It's the fact that you felt the need to point out the blatantly obvious.. twice. Your last sentence to my comment would have sufficed. Furthermore as @Walecs pointed out, which btw is a fact, Arnold incorporates cues of the Bond theme in time to get out. So you saying it lacks any bit of Bond theme is factually wrong.

    I think it's necessary to point out at times this "blatantly obvious". Because if I don't sometimes people get angry....plain irritated by me.

    It's not that I hold you for dumb okay? What holds discussions together on many occassions like these are open and clear agreements on disagreements. That's what I wanted to point out. And sorry to say this, but if you get irritated by such things, by me pointing out that it's just an opinion, then also look back at yourself and what you posted.

    I DO think that it's necessary to point out the length of your sentence. Because you basically had nothing to say. You stated one sentence that sounded like one big fact, devoid of any argumentation: "Time to get out wipes the floor with take the bloody shot. Easily.".

    By the way, @Walecs is right. I am sorry for my mistake. I listened to it again. And indeed, they are queues from Monty Norman's theme in it. But forgive me, they are way less obvious as compared to "The Bloody Shot". I even had to re-listen to it.


    One last thing: I prefer to communicate in a more elaborate way. I FOR INSTANCE get irritated by posts containing just one sentence. You can do better than that @doubleoego.


    @Gustav, my initial comment was an obvious opinion. Simple and succinct. As I said, your last sentence in reply to my initial comment was all that was needed. You didn't agree with my comment and I respect and appreciate that. However, not all comments warrant a thesis-length contribution as is often the case with you and if that irritates you as you conceded then that's your problem to deal with.

    I genuinely do believe time to get out wipes the floor with take the bloody shot. It sounds far more engaging, there's a frantic excitement and tension there that didn't even need the cues of the Bond theme to sound as great as it did because it was genuinely a well conceived piece of music to open up the movie which cannot be said for Newman's contribution. Furthermore, the music holds it's own with or without tge film's visuals which I can't say the same for take the bloody shot.

    Disclaimer: This is my opinion and is not meant to be regarded as factual truth that should be unanimously agreed upon.


    ;)
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Honestly ..although I appreciate DA's love if the series and Barry, ...and I appreciate Newman's talent ...I don't like either one of them.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I think Bond fans have been starting to 'panic' recently, when the new "M:I"-film came out. Suddenly Joe Kraemer was cheered as the possible future Bond composer (Which similar Bond fans said about Henry Jackman back in February when "Kingsman" premiered. Not to mention Daniel Pemberton's wonderful talent).

    Guys? Take. It. Easy. please. Thomas Newman IS the composer of "SPECTRE". Period! Despite all the criticism, both positive and negative, he received for "Skyfall", let's give the poor man a chance OK?? He only did one Bond film so far, and it will be so interesting to see/hear how different his 2nd Bond score is from his 1st.

    Actually, this is a very similar discussion to all the stupid "Who's going to take over from Daniel Craig??"-gossip! And frankly I think it's disrespectful. We are Bond fans. And usually Bond fans stand out as being civilized gentleman-people no? So let's bring that more into practice. Thomas Newman IS James Bond-007-Composer!


    Now I'm not saying we should not compare and discuss all these different spy-scores during this crowded "Year Of The Spy". I love it really :-). And IF Thomas Newman leaves after "SPECTRE", then perhaps Daniel Pemberton or Henry Jackman are my favourites to take over. Even more so than Joe Kraemer's OK-but-not-special-score for "Rogue Nation". But again, Thomas Newman IS James Bond-007-Composer! right now. Let's not forget that.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited August 2015 Posts: 16,351
    Deleted.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    While I'm not the biggest fan of Newman, I will note that this IS an appreciation topic, and just like we hate it when people trash one of the Bond actors or a certain film or director or what have you in another appreciation topic, please refrain from also bashing Newman in this topic. We don't like it when it happens to us, let's not do the same in return, please.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I really liked Tennyson.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Murdock wrote: »
    Both are good tracks. The Bloody Shot was one of the Better Newman tracks on the soundtrack.

    Though I'd take


    Over this.

    I disagree, Newman's track is immensely better. Arnold's track doesn't have a direction or a general theme or beat to it, it's just random noise that's way too synchronised to the picture.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I will say that the 'Skyfall' track is one of the best Bond tracks I've ever heard in a Bond movie before. Totally sets the mood.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 2,165
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I will say that the 'Skyfall' track is one of the best Bond tracks I've ever heard in a Bond movie before. Totally sets the mood.

    I agree and also love "Enjoying Death". That cue really sets the scene - both exotic and extremely sadenning, conveying a sense of loneliness or abandonment that Bond has.

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