SPECTRE: Thomas Newman is Back! (appreciation topic)

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Mallory, I always described that track as perfectly setting the mood of Bond and M driving off toward the inevitable result of their actions. It's beautiful, yet really haunting and chilling.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    I am not sure the Arnold vs Newman has to be an either/or. I think they're both great in their own ways. If I were to rank the top 10 soundtrack songs of the DC era:

    1. Night at the Opera (QoS)
    2. Someone Usually Dies (SF)
    3. Komodo Dragon (SF)
    4. Dinner Jackets (CR)
    5. Vesper (CR)
    6. Severine (SF)
    7. Brave New World (SF)
    8. New Digs (SF)
    9. Camille's Story (QoS)
    10. CCTV (CR)
  • Posts: 11,119
    TripAces wrote: »
    I am not sure the Arnold vs Newman has to be an either/or. I think they're both great in their own ways. If I were to rank the top 10 soundtrack songs of the DC era:

    1. Night at the Opera (QoS)
    2. Someone Usually Dies (SF)
    3. Komodo Dragon (SF)
    4. Dinner Jackets (CR)
    5. Vesper (CR)
    6. Severine (SF)
    7. Brave New World (SF)
    8. New Digs (SF)
    9. Camille's Story (QoS)
    10. CCTV (CR)

    Thanks @TripAces. I love your nuanced ranking :-).
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,756
    I gotta say, after rewatching TND and TWINE, that I way prefer Thomas Newman over David Arnold. David Arnold has his moments but a lot of the score is random noises that's way too synced to everything on screen. It got better in CR but at least Newman doesnt ruin scenes and creates a delicate melody.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think the Craig era Arnold is a step above the Brosnan era Arnold.
  • Posts: 498
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the Craig era Arnold is a step above the Brosnan era Arnold.

    definitely, he got better with every installment, one could only imagine how his third take on the Craig series would have been
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I wonder if Blofeld will get his own theme.

    I mean Oberhauser...
  • Posts: 11,119
    I wonder if Blofeld will get his own theme.

    I mean Oberhauser...

    Denbigh = Blofeld. Trust me ;-).
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2015 Posts: 3,157
    I wonder if Blofeld will get his own theme.

    I mean Oberhauser...

    Denbigh = Blofeld. Trust me ;-).

    Hopefully not, it would be too similar to
    Sherlock.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I hope that's just speculation and not a genuine spoiler
  • Posts: 11,119
    Walecs wrote: »
    I wonder if Blofeld will get his own theme.

    I mean Oberhauser...

    Denbigh = Blofeld. Trust me ;-).

    Hopefully not, it would be too similar to
    Sherlock.

    And I think
    Oberhauser = Blofeld would be too similar to "The Dark Knight Rises" :-)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    How liberating it would be if they didn't cock about and just had Blofeld in the film. No origin, no, 'you thought it was him, but actually...' would be fun to just have a Maibaum-esque 'caper' that drives the film rather than the inevitable familial/origin bullshit.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes. It's one reason I'd like a period piece Bond movie set in the 50s or 60s - break away from the whole current origins thing and take Bond back to the era where he belongs.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Walecs wrote: »
    I wonder if Blofeld will get his own theme.

    I mean Oberhauser...

    Denbigh = Blofeld. Trust me ;-).

    Hopefully not, it would be too similar to
    Sherlock.

    And I think
    Oberhauser = Blofeld would be too similar to "The Dark Knight Rises" :-)

    Never seen that one, so I can't tell ;)
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes. It's one reason I'd like a period piece Bond movie set in the 50s or 60s - break away from the whole current origins thing and take Bond back to the era where he belongs.
    That's what I'd do, had I been in charge of EON.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I'd never make Bond period, I think it has to stay current, but I'd dispense with overt narrative allusions to Bond's history. It just chips away at a character who already exists fully formed in our minds and it can never be truly authentic.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'd never make Bond period, I think it has to stay current, but I'd dispense with overt narrative allusions to Bond's history. It just chips away at a character who already exists fully formed in our minds and it can never be truly authentic.

    That's your opinion @RC7. What if people....actually like this new background history?

    I for instance thought it brought something new to the franchise. And I liked it. Meeting Bond's old housekeeper, Bond's old home. I liked it. It makes "Skyfall" stand out.

    Moreover, all of Fleming's work has been used. Most of it. So what not mixing it up with some on-screen background history?

    If you say "Bond should be like this" or "Bond should never have this", I actually find it a sign of conservatism, that never really helped the Bond franchise to move forward in new unchartered directions.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'd never make Bond period, I think it has to stay current, but I'd dispense with overt narrative allusions to Bond's history. It just chips away at a character who already exists fully formed in our minds and it can never be truly authentic.

    That's your opinion @RC7. What if people....actually like this new background history?

    I for instance thought it brought something new to the franchise. And I liked it. Meeting Bond's old housekeeper, Bond's old home. I liked it. It makes "Skyfall" stand out.

    Moreover, all of Fleming's work has been used. Most of it. So what not mixing it up with some on-screen background history?

    If you say "Bond should be like this" or "Bond should never have this", I actually find it a sign of conservatism, that never really helped the Bond franchise to move forward in new unchartered directions.

    People can like it as much as they want, that's their prerogative. I don't care for it. I think there are other better stories to be told that don't rely on the obvious lynchpin of 'origins'. I'd rather see his current housekeeper, for example. Not only do I not care for it, I don't find it fresh. No one needed Bond's backstory fleshed out and the more it is, the more he becomes like every other character. My favourite aspect of Bond's history is that it is sparse. It exists in the imagination of the reader/viewer. I don't need it committing to screen.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'd never make Bond period, I think it has to stay current, but I'd dispense with overt narrative allusions to Bond's history. It just chips away at a character who already exists fully formed in our minds and it can never be truly authentic.

    That's your opinion @RC7. What if people....actually like this new background history?

    I for instance thought it brought something new to the franchise. And I liked it. Meeting Bond's old housekeeper, Bond's old home. I liked it. It makes "Skyfall" stand out.

    Moreover, all of Fleming's work has been used. Most of it. So what not mixing it up with some on-screen background history?

    If you say "Bond should be like this" or "Bond should never have this", I actually find it a sign of conservatism, that never really helped the Bond franchise to move forward in new unchartered directions.

    People can like it as much as they want, that's their prerogative. I don't care for it. I think there are other better stories to be told that don't rely on the obvious lynchpin of 'origins'. I'd rather see his current housekeeper, for example. Not only do I not care for it, I don't find it fresh. No one needed Bond's backstory fleshed out and the more it is, the more he becomes like every other character. My favourite aspect of Bond's history is that it is sparse. It exists in the imagination of the reader/viewer. I don't need it committing to screen.

    Fresh or not fresh......I find it much fresher then the entire pre-Craig-era. Obviously you're comparing a lot of things with the big allmighty "Hollywood trend". But you keep forgetting one thing. Original or not original, it DOES give Bond's character way more depth. It's perhaps not the depth you want, but others maybe do like it.

    I also disagree with you that the more backstory we get, the more Bond becomes like every other character. Moreover, my favourite aspect of the Bond franchise, is that not every film is exactly the same, and that most likely it'll be only a Sam Mendes touch.

    I know you don't like to be reminded....about the past. But there was a time back in 1969/1970 when the critical press completely disliked the ending of "OHMSS". "Bond doesn't marry!" or "Bond needs to bed a Bond girl...the girl shouldn't be shot!". You can say now that this was how Fleming's novel ended. But people back then were only used to the more formularic Bond.

    Look how we think about "OHMSS" as of today.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Keep it about Newman please and no SPECTRE Plot theories or Spoilers.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'd never make Bond period, I think it has to stay current, but I'd dispense with overt narrative allusions to Bond's history. It just chips away at a character who already exists fully formed in our minds and it can never be truly authentic.

    That's your opinion @RC7. What if people....actually like this new background history?

    I for instance thought it brought something new to the franchise. And I liked it. Meeting Bond's old housekeeper, Bond's old home. I liked it. It makes "Skyfall" stand out.

    Moreover, all of Fleming's work has been used. Most of it. So what not mixing it up with some on-screen background history?

    If you say "Bond should be like this" or "Bond should never have this", I actually find it a sign of conservatism, that never really helped the Bond franchise to move forward in new unchartered directions.

    People can like it as much as they want, that's their prerogative. I don't care for it. I think there are other better stories to be told that don't rely on the obvious lynchpin of 'origins'. I'd rather see his current housekeeper, for example. Not only do I not care for it, I don't find it fresh. No one needed Bond's backstory fleshed out and the more it is, the more he becomes like every other character. My favourite aspect of Bond's history is that it is sparse. It exists in the imagination of the reader/viewer. I don't need it committing to screen.

    Fresh or not fresh......I find it much fresher then the entire pre-Craig-era. Obviously you're comparing a lot of things with the big allmighty "Hollywood trend". But you keep forgetting one thing. Original or not original, it DOES give Bond's character way more depth. It's perhaps not the depth you want, but others maybe do like it.

    I also disagree with you that the more backstory we get, the more Bond becomes like every other character. Moreover, my favourite aspect of the Bond franchise, is that not every film is exactly the same, and that most likely it'll be only a Sam Mendes touch.

    I know you don't like to be reminded....about the past. But there was a time back in 1969/1970 when the critical press completely disliked the ending of "OHMSS". "Bond doesn't marry!" or "Bond needs to bed a Bond girl...the girl shouldn't be shot!". You can say now that this was how Fleming's novel ended. But people back then were only used to the more formularic Bond.

    Look how we think about "OHMSS" as of today.

    He becomes like every other character because the specifics are laid out for us. His murky, unspecified past is part of the mythos. If that continues to be played out in black and white, you destroy one of the key things that drives the legend.

    You're OHMSS comparison doesn't stick either. His actions were in the present. There's a clear level of depth to the narrative and the character progression. He is reacting to and operating in the world around him. We don't have a childhood trauma play out that defines why he's a womaniser and subsequently why this woman, Tracy, has now turned him. It's unnecessary and it would destroy the mythos once again.

    History and specifics don't equal depth. Clever writing, directing and acting create depth.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the Craig era Arnold is a step above the Brosnan era Arnold.

    Definitely. It's like Arnold had a reason to actually do some good work.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the Craig era Arnold is a step above the Brosnan era Arnold.

    Definitely. It's like Arnold had a reason to actually do some good work.

    True enough. The films demanded a quality score, unlike the previous rather generic era.

    Having said that, apart from a few decent elements, and a huge improvement over his Brosnan work, Arnold's Craig era was still not good enough for me. Bond deserves better, and I hope Newman delivers it for SP.

    If not, we must find a suitable new in-house composer, and soon. It's been 28 yrs since Barry last did a Bond score, and we've drifted aimlessly since while other series have improved by leaps and bounds (the MI RN score was excellent imho).
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    I've been watching Skyfall quite a bit lately. I have to admit that I was previously overcritical of Newman's score. Within the context of the film, I believe it was masterful. My criticism of Newman comes from listening to the score without the imagery to accompany it. The lack of translation comes from less bravado overall, giving less emphasis on some of the big percussion cues the series is known for. In regards to the tone of Skyfall, it's close to perfect. Newman developed a couple outstanding motifs that are easy to forget because they aren't as striking as some of the Barry and Arnold tracks. That doesn't mean they are any less suitable.

    I think Newman will prove his chops with SPECTRE. I'm sure he will have more opportunities to produce his vision for classic style Bond moments than in a film like Skyfall that was questioning the establishment of its own institution.
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the Craig era Arnold is a step above the Brosnan era Arnold.
    Completely agree and I truly hope we haven't heard the last of Arnold in Bond. If we judged Barry on everything before On Her Majesty's Secret Service, he would be lacking quite a lot of the mystique he captured in Bond soundtracks. Arnold was still working on coming into his own in Bond. When and if he gets the chance (hopefully to close out Craig's tenure in Bond 25, if not for a new actor), I think all of us will leave the jury open on Arnold's legacy until he has completely left the franchise behind.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Mansfield wrote: »
    I've been watching Skyfall quite a bit lately. I have to admit that I was previously overcritical of Newman's score. Within the context of the film, I believe it was masterful. My criticism of Newman comes from listening to the score without the imagery to accompany it. The lack of translation comes from less bravado overall, giving less emphasis on some of the big percussion cues the series is known for. In regards to the tone of Skyfall, it's close to perfect. Newman developed a couple outstanding motifs that are easy to forget because they aren't as striking as some of the Barry and Arnold tracks. That doesn't mean they are any less suitable.

    I think Newman will prove his chops with SPECTRE. I'm sure he will have more opportunities to produce his vision for classic style Bond moments than in a film like Skyfall that was questioning the establishment of its own institution.

    I agree with your assessment. I have no desire or intention to purchase the SF soundtrack, and don't think I'll enjoy it at all as a standalone. Within the context of the film I find it perfect and also believe there are some outstanding (if undeveloped) motifs in the score. Severine as an example is so good and evocative of the lush sounds of old that I just love watching that scene where she and Bond check each other out after he dispatches Patrice at the Shanghai skyscraper just to hear it so briefly.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Double post
  • Posts: 11,425
    Edit
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree with your assessment. I have no desire or intention to purchase the SF soundtrack, and don't think I'll enjoy it at all as a standalone. Within the context of the film I find it perfect and also believe there are some outstanding (if undeveloped) motifs in the score. Severine as an example is so good and evocative of the lush sounds of old that I just love watching that scene where she and Bond check each other out after he dispatches Patrice at the Shanghai skyscraper just to hear it so briefly.
    That's absolutely true. With my recent looks at Skyfall, I began looking forward to seeing him expand some of those motifs in SPECTRE. For example, the motif found in She's Mine/Deep Water/Grand Bazaar is a formidable Bond theme that is really quite suitable for Bond and Craig in particular. Hearing that motif re-orchestrated in SPECTRE would be most welcome. Honestly, Newman can do well without lifting or remixing classic Barry tracks as long as he arranges some notes that pay homage to the classics considering the style of film this is.

    In terms of some of the undeveloped motifs, look no further than Shanghai Drive. I thought it was a great cue in the film that only lasts seemingly less than a minute and doesn't reappear again until the credits roll. This one might be limited to just Skyfall, however, because I can't really picture hearing that kind of a track in SPECTRE. Skyfall asks the question of what technology Bond really needs to complete a mission, and Shanghai Drive is definitely appropriate for that kind of a moment (right after meeting Q) and setting.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I was kinda the same way. Overcritical of the score. It's fine in the movie, but on it's own it's just not that fun to listen to by itself. There are still tracks I don't like but like I said. it's fine for the film. I hope Newman does a better job for SPECTRE. Like Mendes he was getting his feet wet. I love Newman's score for Wall-E though.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I enjoyed his score for SF, some really interesting tracks.
  • Posts: 11,425
    yes, "interesting". speaks volumes
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