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Remember....vote for the actor and his acting skills in his first Bond film...not the ones that come after them.
No he doesn't, look at where people are ranking him as an actor! If my count is correct, 16 out of 23 voters (if you include a voter who gave him 5/10 which ranked lowest in his view) have George as the worst actor, and rightfully so. He has two 5th place votes, and two 4th place votes as well. He goes no higher than #3 and that's a mere 3 times.
What is doing well and clouding your judgement is people's positive views on the movie.
Oh, I stand corrected. Figures never were my strong suit. Sorry.
Could be. I'd rate Roger Moore much higher than Pierce Brosnan, certainly, though I like both of them.
I agree with you about Moore over Brosnan. Two out three ain't bad, right?
Already had an afternoon nap. Doesn't seem to have done very much good although at least we have finally agreed on something. Surely the sky will now fall as a result!
Haha, we usually seem to agree, just not on the merits of Lazenby and Lonsdale. Don't see the sky falling down over here. Perhaps you missed the various MR reviews on the original thread? Or that OHMSS sits at #9 mostly due to Lazers? Or that we all think Stephens/Graves is pretty much as bad as Lonsdale/Drax? Well, maybe not quite all of us on the last point, maybe I am a bit extreme in my view but that's how I've felt since 1979 and 2002 and I can't see myself changing my mind.
I wouldn't dare ask you to change your mind - Lonsdale of course isn't a patch on the novel version of Sir Hugo Drax, though I can see Brian Blessed in that role - he'd be perfect as the unruly loudmouth that is 'Hugger' Drax!
001) Timothy Dalton - 8 pts
002) Sean Connery - 6 pts
003) Daniel Craig - 4 pts
004) Roger Moore - 3 pts
005) George Lazenby - 2 pts
006) Pierce Brosnan - 1 pt
Films:
001) TLD - 16 pts
002) OHMSS - 12 pts
003) CR - 8 pts
004) DN - 6 pts
005) GE - 4pts
006) LALD - 2 pts
Total:
001) Timothy Dalton - 24 pts
002) George Lazenby - 14 pts
003) Sean Connery - 12 pts
004) Daniel Craig - 12 pts(tied with Connery)
005) Roger Moore - 5 pts
006) Pierce Brosnan - 5 pts(tied with Moore)
It would be a shame if Sir Rog is in the bottom two of actors, he doesn't deserve it :(
1. Daniel Craig 8 pts
2. Sean Connery 6 pts
3. Timothy Dalton 4 pts
4. Roger Moore 3 pts
5. Pierce Brosnan 2 pts
6. George Lazemby 1 pts
Films
1. Dr. No 16 pts
2. CR 12 pts
3. TLD 8 pts
4. LALD 6 pts
5. OHMSS 4 pts
6. GE 2 pts
Total package
1. Connery 22 pts
2. Craig 20 pts
3. Dalton 12 pts
4. Moore 9 pts
5. Lazemby 5 pts
6. Brosnan 4 pts
edit: Mistake in the films section. Now corrected.
I'm quite surprised that Daniel Craig is scoring so high on the actor's list. For me it's all about nuances and slight...very slight differences in acting quality. For me, especially verbally, Daniel Craig wasn't necessarily the best of the bunch. I thought Connery and Lazenby all dit slightly better.
And OHMSS as film....2nd last? I don't really get that. I think story-wise, acting wise (don't look to Lazenby only, Savalas, Ferzetti and Rigg did some perfect acting there!) and also looking to originality and the locations....OHMSS trumps DN, TLD and especially LALD. The latter for me still is a very Guy Hamilton-like film. Lots of fun, humour and laughter....but not that Fleming-esque.
Points "Best Total Package" (Best Film vs. Best 1st Bond Outing:
400 POINTS --> Daniel Craig in 'Casino Royale'
358 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton in 'The Living Daylights'
315 POINTS --> Sean Connery in 'Doctor No'
302 POINTS --> 'George Lazenby in 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
236 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan in 'GoldenEye'
189 POINTS --> Roger Moore in 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Overall Film":
262 POINTS --> 'Casino Royale'
256 POINTS --> 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
228 POINTS --> 'The Living Daylights'
174 POINTS --> 'Doctor No'
166 POINTS --> 'GoldenEye'
114 POINTS --> 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Actor As Bond 1st Time":
141 POINTS --> Sean Connery
138 POINTS --> Daniel Craig
130 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton
075 POINTS --> Roger Moore
070 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan
046 POINTS --> George Lazenby
I must say, I think the quality of Lazenby's first Bond outing is mostly clouded by the fact that he only did one......and all its disadvantages and negative reviews that came with it.
Just try to think how you judge these 6 films if there were only these 6 Bond films with for every Bond film a different actor. Personally, for me, given the fact George Lazenby was a newcomer without acting experience, he had, IMO more charisma than Timothy Dallton. And on the whole, I thought he gave his best during the love scenes with Tracy. The wedding proposal in the barn for instance. I think that was true Oscar-worthy acting. It still warms me and it warms me more than Craig's over-acting" when Vesper died. It is one of the reasons why the Hollywood Press nominated George Lazenby for a Golden Globe in 1970.....
1. CR (16)
2. OHMSS (12)
3. GE (8)
4. TLD (6)
5. DN (4)
6. LALD (2)
Actor:
1. SC (8)
2. DC (6)
3. TD (4)
4. PB (3)
5. RM (2)
6. GL (1)
Package:
DC - CR (22)
GL - OHMSS (13)
SC - DN (12)
PB - GE (11)
TD - TLD (10)
RM - LALD (4)
1) Connery - 8 pts
2) Craig - 6 pts
3) Dalton - 4 pts
4) Brosnan - 3 pts
5) Lazenby - 2 pts
6) Moore - 1 pt
Films:
1) CR - 16 pts
2) OHMSS - 12 pts
3) DN- 8 pts
4) TLD- 6 pts
5) GE - 4 pts
6) LALD - 2 pts
Total:
1) Craig- 22 pts
2) Connery- 16 pts
3) Lazenby- 14 pts
4) Dalton- 10 pts
5) Brosnan 7 pts
6) Moore 3 pts
Actors:
1) Dalton - 8 pts
2) Connery - 6 pts
3) Craig - 4 pts
4) Moore - 3 pts
5) Brosnan - 2 pts
6) Lazenby - 1 pt
Films:
1) GE - 16 pts
2) OHMSS - 12 pts
3) CR- 8 pts
4) TLD- 6 pts
5) DN - 4 pts
6) LALD - 2 pts
Totals:
1) Brosnan - 18 (because of GE, mind)
2) Dalton - 14
3) Lazenby - 13 (wow, the films sure impact a lot!)
4) Craig - 12
5) Connery - 10
6) Moore - 5
Points "Best Total Package" (Best Film vs. Best 1st Bond Outing. In essence this is the true "Best Film" category):
478 POINTS --> Daniel Craig in 'Casino Royale'
398 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton in 'The Living Daylights'
369 POINTS --> Sean Connery in 'Doctor No'
355 POINTS --> 'George Lazenby in 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
277 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan in 'GoldenEye'
210 POINTS --> Roger Moore in 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Overall Film" (When you rate this category, you are more focussed on the screenplay/story combined with all other elements, for example ensemble cast, music score, etc. Except looking to the Bond-actor in particular!):
318 POINTS --> 'Casino Royale'
304 POINTS --> 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
248 POINTS --> 'The Living Daylights'
198 POINTS --> 'GoldenEye'
198 POINTS --> 'Doctor No'
126 POINTS --> 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Actor As Bond 1st Time" (You could say that here you are rating the "Best Oscar" for leading actor, off course being the Bond-actor):
171 POINTS --> Sean Connery
160 POINTS --> Daniel Craig
150 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton
084 POINTS --> Roger Moore
079 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan
052 POINTS --> George Lazenby
On Her Majesty's Secret Service 16p
Dr No 12p
The Living Daylights 8p
Casino Royale 6p
Live & Let Die 4p
GoldenEye 2p
Best Actor as Bond
Sean Connery 8p
Daniel Craig 6p
Roger Moore 4p
George Lazenby 3p
Pierce Brosnan 2p
Timothy Dalton 1p
Casino Royale 16p
On Her Majesty's Secret Service 12p
Dr No 8p
The Living Daylights 6p
Goldeneye 4p
Live & Let Die 2p
Best Actor as Bond
Daniel Craig 8p
Sean Connery 6p
Timothy Dalton 4p
Pierce Brosnan 3p
Roger Moore 2p
George Lazenby 1p
Daniel Craig 8
Sean Connery 6
George Lazenby 4
Timothy Dalton 3
Pierce Brosnan 2
Roger Moore 1
Film
OHMSS 16
CR 12
TLD 8
GE 6
DN 4
LALD 2
Total
OHMSS/CR 20
TLD 11
DN 10
GE 8
LALD 3
Points "Best Total Package" (Best Film vs. Best 1st Bond Outing. In essence this is the true "Best Film" category):
534 POINTS --> Daniel Craig in 'Casino Royale'
428 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton in 'The Living Daylights'
413 POINTS --> Sean Connery in 'Doctor No'
408 POINTS --> 'George Lazenby in 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
296 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan in 'GoldenEye'
225 POINTS --> Roger Moore in 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Overall Film" (When you rate this category, you are more focussed on the screenplay/story combined with all other elements, for example ensemble cast, music score, etc. Except looking to the Bond-actor in particular!):
352 POINTS --> 'Casino Royale'
348 POINTS --> 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
270 POINTS --> 'The Living Daylights'
222 POINTS --> 'Doctor No'
210 POINTS --> 'GoldenEye'
134 POINTS --> 'Live And Let Die'
Points "Best Actor As Bond 1st Time" (You could say that here you are rating the "Best Oscar" for leading actor, off course being the Bond-actor):
191 POINTS --> Sean Connery
182 POINTS --> Daniel Craig
158 POINTS --> Timothy Dalton
091 POINTS --> Roger Moore
086 POINTS --> Pierce Brosnan
060 POINTS --> George Lazenby
It's my #11; so close but just barely edged by my #10 (FRWL). It's underrated typically though. I always have a lot of fun watching it, and regard it in the better half of Moore's outings.
1. The Spy Who Loved Me
2. For Your Eyes Only
3. Live and Let Die
4. The Man with the Golden Gun
5. Octopussy
6. Moonraker
7. A View to a Kill
#6 to 7, 4 to 5, and 2 to 3 are all kind of close.
Still, LALD is clearly on last position in this poll. We all think, on average, that LALD is the worst "Bond film with one particular actor in his first Bond outing".
For me, the Guy Hamilton/Richard Maibaum/Tom Mankiewicz Bond films (Goldfinger, Diamonds Are Forever, Live And Let Die & The Man With The Golden Gun) are among the funniest, but als cheesiest Bond films.
Don't forget that actor Sean Connery himself was already very sceptical about the screenplay for "Goldfinger". During team meetings and calls back and forth, Connery put many notes/annotations on the drafts written by Maibaum. He thought "Goldfinger" was starting to become way too "frivoulous" and "jokey", losing the seriousness and cold-heartedness that was present in "Doctor No" and "From Russia With Love.
I think Connery, already by then, wasn't heard properly. And you can see it in other aspects of the movie. Q had to become the "grumpy" guy, evoking more laughter. Pussy Galore wasn't at all a lesbian Roas Klebb-esque henchwoman. Nono, she had to be lured into "the normal straight world" with a well-lifted wonderbra.
Later on, during the DAF/LALD/TMWTGG-trilogy, even more "ridiculousness" was added by Guy Hamilton and the then young student writer Tom Mankiewicz: Mocking gay people (Mr Wint and Mr Kidd), letting women walk in bikinis as mere "objects" (Plenty O'Toole, Tiffany Case, Rosy Carver, Goodnight).
So where Terence Young/Peter Hunt more or less set the standard for the "colder", edgier espionage thrillers (translating in my opinion Ian Fleming's vision much better), Guy Hamilton was creating the blueprints for the more funny, "popcorn" adventure/comedy action flicks.
Because of that, and because right now we are used to a more Terence Young-esque era of "serious" Bond films (Sam Mendes, Marc Forster & Martin Campbell all made the Craig-Bond quite a cold and bruised assassin), I can understand why "Live And Let Die" currently is at last position.
These are mostly valid points (not sure about Mankiewicz 'mocking' gays with Wint & Kidd).
Apart from anything else LALD isn't even the best Roger film and every other actor's film is their best or close to their best.
DN - Classic 60's Bond, with the character still very close to Fleming's vision and a perfect performance by Connery. It actually gets better with age and looks ridiculously luscious on BluRay. Probably not quite in my personal top 10 but it really should be.
OHMSS - Not much to be said here. Simply the bollocks. If it's not in your top 5 then you don't really know what you are talking about.
TLD - First act is as perfect a realisation of Fleming as we've ever seen (save the pipeline scene), fantastic action and a superb performance by Dalton all add up to another locked in top 10 entry, probably top 5.
GE - Bond was back!!! Not much Fleming but for an interpretation of the cinematic Bond it pretty much hits it out of the park. The odd cliche notwithstanding it ticks every box that was required to save the series and the PTS and tank chase instantly go down as two of the best action sequences of the series. Another top 10 for all but the most fundamentalist Brozza haters.
CR - See OHMSS above.
Is it any wonder then that a film featuring a far from his suave TSWLM-MR-FYEO-OP peak Rog, a rather dull villain caper, JW Pepper, Mrs Bell and an embarrassing rubber doll blowing up at the climax ranks below all the above?
It's not really that LALD is that bad (although it's certainly bottom half) it's just that all the other first films are so good.