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@Murdock, Snyder likes to say he based the film in part on TDKR, but none of it is in there; not its heart at least. He rips off the visuals of the comic book, but retains none of the meaning behind those images. A fight of ideologies between Batman and Superman is downgraded to a one sided bout where Superman only had to say, "Lex has my mother" to end it all. The 'I believe you' sequence ripped from the part where Bruce fires a gun at a Mutant to save a child was robbed of its emotion and impact when applied to KGBeast threatening Ma Kent because up until that point in the movie, Affleck's Batman had wracked up a body count that would make even Jason Vorhees blush. Anyway, you get my point...
@boldfinger, I think @Agent007391's opinion may be down to the fact that the dissenters of BvS are constantly asked to argue their position and give their reasoning to explain their views on the movie, while its proponents can often play the part of crickets.
Because defending it by saying "Well, I like it so nyeh", which is what 90% of BvS supporters do, suggests to me that they either don't understand the arguments against it or ignorant of it. I don't care if you like it. I don't care if you love it. Understand the flaws and stop claiming they're strengths because they are not. Nothing is perfect, and this film is no exception.
When Superman is stripped of his hopefulness and turned into a mopey shit, that's not brilliant characterization, that's ignoring the thing the character was created to be. When Batman is killing people left and right, that's outright ignoring the lesson he learned when his parents died, that is bastardizing the character to the greatest degree. Lex Luthor is turned from a great, intelligent villain into someone basically holding a sign that says "I'm a nutjob!" His plot is nonsensical and that's before Doomsday becomes a part of it.
There are things I enjoyed about the movie. Despite the bastardization of Batman's character, Ben Affleck played him remarkably well. I can't wait for a movie where he's playing the character the right way. Jeremy Irons' casting as Alfred is a masterstroke, and is worthy of an award. Gal Gadot was exceptional as Wonder Woman, the character was just useless to the overall throughline of the plot. Laurence Fishburne is great as Perry White and was in Man of Steel as well. There are good things about this movie, they're just buried in so much shit. For every good idea this movie has, it has twenty bad ones covering them up and saying "Look at me, look at me!"
This movie deserved better. It deserved to be better. Defend it all you like, but give me good, concise, intelligent arguments for your points. Because 90% of BvS supporters don't. And that's the biggest tragedy of this movie.
@Murdock, at least we have the animated movies. Snyder can't take those away from us, though let's not give him any ideas as it is.
Agreed. Hopefully we can get this Watchmen cartoon. :))
I'd watch that show in a heartbeat, for Rorschach and his dogs alone.
"I'm nutty!" 8-}
It is by no way a tragedy if the supporters don´t give concise, intelligent arguments. It´s only natural that it´s easier to rationalise not liking something.
At all, concise is not the word that comes to mind when reading the posts in this thread that express dislike of BvS.
Was this approved by Alan Moore?
The movie nailed Lex's anti-theism and hatred of Superman because of his god-like presence, but their approach sagged in other areas. What makes their dynamic so great in the comics is that Lex is a devilishly sane man who is at the peak of both physical and mental perfection, and can do evil under a facade of charm and charisma. He's got genius intellect and could face most human men in combat and come out on top. Part of why he despises Superman so is because he has worked to get everything he has, strength and endurance included, while Superman only has his abilities because of a shift in atmosphere and gravity. It's a shame that Eisenberg will never be able to credibly portray the physicality of Lex effectively, especially since he's been written as so wacky and neurotic to top it all off. I don't look forward to seeing him in future DCEU movies, and my enthusiasm for his character is even lower than it is for Leto's Joker.
He's Lex, end of story for me.
BvS would get infinitely better with someone not so awfully overacting.
Did Snyder do a commentary for either version of BvS that could shed light on this?
I just hope that if Lex Sr. is still alive and shows up eventually, they cast a damn fine actor.
Lexenberg can't be undone, no matter if he is Lex Jr. or Sr.
And if they bring him back in the JL they are out of their minds.
JL, if they want to have any chance for success, has to be led by Batfleck in the main role.
1 Kevin Spacey
2 Gene Hackman
3 Jesse Wassisberg
Agree, sure. But...
1. John Glover
2. Michael Rosenbaum
3. Kevin Spacey
4. Gene Hackman
5 to 56 all future Luthors.
57. Lexenberg
My apologies. Of course John Shea was infinitely better than Lexenberg.
sheesh...I have to do my homework better next time...
Here my re-vised ranking of the Luthor's...
1. John Glover
2. Clancy Brown
3. Michael Rosenbaum
4. Kevin Spacey
5. Gene Hackman
6. all actors playing a Luthor in the future
7. Bloody Lexenberg
I agree with your 1 and 2. Lionel and Lex from Smallville are the only live action Luthors worth mentioning. They were incredibly well written and wonderfully portrayed and for the most part the best things about Smallville.