Pure Fleming?

2

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  • edited August 2013 Posts: 802
    RC7 wrote:
    But let's not forget that some of the situations in the books are ludicrous and the villans are larger than life, so I think a balance is always need to be struck.

    Very apposite. I think a lotof people forget this, primarily because it doesn't always fit in with their desired definition of 'Flemingesque'.

    Quite. As written the whole final act of DN would be very virtually impossible to pull off on screen without coming across as preposterous. But its still Flemingesque.

    Fleming knew his adventures were just escapist froth. I think theres a bit of an eagerness round here sometimes to equate 'Flemingesque' only with 'serious' and 'gritty'.

    The genius of Fleming was his ability to tread an incredibly thin line between realism and fantasy. That is what made his adventures so thrilling. When that line isn't respected the magic fades. Respecting it is key but is also extremely difficult - maybe Boyd will give us a masterclass in how to do it?
    Much of what Fleming wrote has come to pass in one way and another and I'm quite sure that a novel involving terrorists flying planes into the world trade centre would have been considered preposterous fifty years ago!


  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote:
    But let's not forget that some of the situations in the books are ludicrous and the villans are larger than life, so I think a balance is always need to be struck.

    Very apposite. I think a lotof people forget this, primarily because it doesn't always fit in with their desired definition of 'Flemingesque'.

    Quite. As written the whole final act of DN would be very virtually impossible to pull off on screen without coming across as preposterous. But its still Flemingesque.

    Fleming knew his adventures were just escapist froth. I think theres a bit of an eagerness round here sometimes to equate 'Flemingesque' only with 'serious' and 'gritty'.

    Yes, there is indeed. I think this term is bandied about far too much by people who are not in the know, if you will.
  • Posts: 802
    Bentley wrote:
    Personally I think we will only get Fleming's Bond if Eon would allow the BBC to make every novel from Casino Royale thru' as period pieces with a real quality actor like Dominic West in the role. A dream perhaps but one I'll continue to nurture.

    It's a dream I share. I would love to see someone attempt the original novels as a period TV series.

    But Dominic 'Fred' West as Bond?

    Someone wake me up from that dream please.

    Dominic West as Fred West = perfect.
    Dominic West as Jimmy McNulty = perfect.
    Dominic West as Hector Madden = perfect
    Dominic West as Richard Burton = Perfect
    Dominic West as retro James Bond = perfect. The man is a chameleon and certainly one of our greatest British actors.
    Has @TheWizardOflce's normally excellent taste hit a speed bump?
    I'm not sure Connery would have been selected on the strength of his Seabees chorus boy stint!

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 418
    ohfilms1 wrote:
    This is what I would say. Only thing Licence to Kill is my personal favorite and I find very underrated. :-?

    'Licence to Kill' is one of my personal favourites aswell, and i tend to watch it more frequently than a lot of the others. I totally agree that its very underrated, and i would have loved Dalton to have done at least one more film..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Villiers53 wrote:
    Bentley wrote:
    Personally I think we will only get Fleming's Bond if Eon would allow the BBC to make every novel from Casino Royale thru' as period pieces with a real quality actor like Dominic West in the role. A dream perhaps but one I'll continue to nurture.

    It's a dream I share. I would love to see someone attempt the original novels as a period TV series.

    But Dominic 'Fred' West as Bond?

    Someone wake me up from that dream please.

    Dominic West as Fred West = perfect.
    Dominic West as Jimmy McNulty = perfect.
    Dominic West as Hector Madden = perfect
    Dominic West as Richard Burton = Perfect
    Dominic West as retro James Bond = perfect. The man is a chameleon and certainly one of our greatest British actors.
    Has @TheWizardOflce's normally excellent taste hit a speed bump?
    I'm not sure Connery would have been selected on the strength of his Seabees chorus boy stint!

    Not convinced although in Johnny English 2 he does a reasonable pastiche of Bond. Not criticising his acting chops but for me he hasnt quite got the right look. Mind you nor has Daniel Craig.

    Anyway hes nearly 44 so its not going to happen.
  • Posts: 1,052
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    But let's not forget that some of the situations in the books are ludicrous and the villans are larger than life, so I think a balance is always need to be struck.

    Very apposite. I think a lotof people forget this, primarily because it doesn't always fit in with their desired definition of 'Flemingesque'.

    Quite. As written the whole final act of DN would be very virtually impossible to pull off on screen without coming across as preposterous. But its still Flemingesque.

    Fleming knew his adventures were just escapist froth. I think theres a bit of an eagerness round here sometimes to equate 'Flemingesque' only with 'serious' and 'gritty'.

    Yes, there is indeed. I think this term is bandied about far too much by people who are not in the know, if you will.

    I think people forget that the lightheatred action romps are the bread and butter of the series, most of Connery's, Moore and Brosnan's films would fall into this category, these kind of films are what made Bond films popular in the first place, I don' think the series would be the massive franchise that it is today with 23 straight faced entries, it's just good to be able to change things up when the time calls for it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I think people forget that the lightheatred action romps are the bread and butter of the series, most of Connery's, Moore and Brosnan's films would fall into this category, these kind of films are what made Bond films popular in the first place, I don' think the series would be the massive franchise that it is today with 23 straight faced entries, it's just good to be able to change things up when the time calls for it.
    I agree. For instance, Craig's next one better be different (ie an OTT MISSION with action & adventure) or it won't make nearly the money his last one did. The last thing EON needs right now are reviews saying Craig's Bond has stagnated. The Bond series' MAIN strength has been it adaptability and abrupt direction changes.
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote:
    I think people forget that the lightheatred action romps are the bread and butter of the series, most of Connery's, Moore and Brosnan's films would fall into this category, these kind of films are what made Bond films popular in the first place, I don' think the series would be the massive franchise that it is today with 23 straight faced entries, it's just good to be able to change things up when the time calls for it.
    I agree. For instance, Craig's next one better be different (ie an OTT MISSION with action & adventure) or it won't make nearly the money his last one did. The last thing EON needs right now are reviews saying Craig's Bond has stagnated. The Bond series' MAIN strength has been it adaptability and abrupt direction changes.

    The next Craig-Bond will be based on what is currently popular in 2014. Here are the releases in 2014
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    So go on then, which film will it be based on?
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 1,052
    I'm going to say Stretch Armstrong.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    That's the thing, there is not one film which stands out as being a possible 'template' for Bond, so I'm eager to see what @Perdogg has to say to this.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Samuel001 wrote:
    That's the thing, there is not one film which stands out as being a possible 'template' for Bond, so I'm eager to see what @Perdogg has to say to this.

    It's just another opportunity for him to have a dig at Craig.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,801
    I'm betting on a classic adventure Bond; Dan hasn't done one yet. The introspective & dark thing has been covered, and no way in Hell will he do a dopey MR/DAD romp.
  • Posts: 686
    It's just another opportunity for him to have a dig at Craig.

    I have been consistent with every one who has played Bond. The actor who plays Bond is not necessarily responsible for the final product. for example, I thought Dalton's role in TLD was more to my liking than his role in LTK. This differences was caused by a shift in popular culture to the movies with more realistic violence.

    If you take a look at the Bond after 1971 to 2012, most of them have been influenced by what is going on in popular culture:

    LALD: Blackspolitation films of the early 70s and the rise of crime in the urban areas of the US that started in the late 60s.

    TMWTGG: Kung Fu movies popular with Bruce Lee, Asian meme due to previous movie being the western hemisphere.

    TSWLM: Ocean based movies such as Jaws and The Deep. The main villain is called Jaws and a woman was eaten by a shark.

    MR: Do I really have to explain this one.

    Octopussy: India based interests: Passage to India and Gandhi.

    Licence to Kill: Lethal weapon, Miami Vice, Steven Segal movie.

    CR and QoS: Jason Bourne Films and the superhero movies that have emphasized the roots and beginning of the hero (reboots)

    SF: Batman and the Avengers movie with Bardem a mix of Loki, Hannible Lector, and a pansexual Joker.
  • Posts: 6,396
    @Perdogg.

    Some of your timelines there are incorrect:

    SF wasn't influenced by Avengers Assemble as production was near to completion by the time Avengers was released.
    LTK wasn't influenced by Steven Seagal movies as his breakout hit, Hard To Kill, wasn't released until 1990. In fact LTK's biggest influences are arguably Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars

    No arguments with the rest though.
  • Posts: 686
    @Perdogg.

    Some of your timelines there are incorrect:

    SF wasn't influenced by Avengers Assemble as production was near to completion by the time Avengers was released.
    LTK wasn't influenced by Steven Seagal movies as his breakout hit, Hard To Kill, wasn't released until 1990. In fact LTK's biggest influences are arguably Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars

    No arguments with the rest though.

    If I had to make a guess at the next Bond film, I would not be surprised to see an Alec Trevelyan type bad guy in a Quantum like organization.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    So which films from 2014 will Bond 24 be based on @Perdogg?
  • Posts: 686
    Samuel001 wrote:
    So which films from 2014 will Bond 24 be based on @Perdogg?


    If I had to make a guess at the next Bond film, I would not be surprised to see an Alec Trevelyan type bad guy in a Quantum like organization.

    http://www.movieinsider.com/m10971/the-expendables-3/
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    The Expendables 3?! No way in hell do I ever see EON copying that. It's always going to be the big box office takers of the time. Right now, for this year that's Iron Man, The Hobbit and Hunger Games.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    Well, the best James Bond films were always the trend-setters, certainly. I think that applies to most pieces of art whatever the medium. Daring originality is the watchword here. It's currently in very short supply in Hollywood, it would seem.
  • Posts: 686
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    @RC7 and @Dragonpol - It could change if EON is willing to take a creative risk. I wish that EON made the effort the people on this board have made in their fan creations.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Perdogg wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    @RC7 and @Dragonpol - It could change if EON is willing to take a creative risk. I wish that EON made the effort the people on this board have made in their fan creations.

    Well time will tell in 2015 if they have upped their game, @Perdogg. Here's hoping...
  • Posts: 1,314
    The strength of Flemings writings come as much from his descriptions of the taste of Bourbon and villains as the Bond Character.

    I actually think sometimes Bond comes across less suave and rather one dimensional in the books.

    On top of it all though Fleming was dangerous and thrilling. I'd rank Skyfall as the nearest we've got for quite a while.
  • RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.

    Sadly, I think you are spot on on this, @thelivingroyale.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.

    Sadly, I think you are spot on on this, @thelivingroyale.

    Definitely agreed. Sadly they could do it again, but the money men won't allow the possibility.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.

    Sadly, I think you are spot on on this, @thelivingroyale.

    Definitely agreed. Sadly they could do it again, but the money men won't allow the possibility.

    Well, they should certainly have plenty of money now right after the phenomenal success of Skyfall. It's time that we saw every penny on the screen again, as this was Cubby Broccoli's maxim and if it stood the Bond film series in good stead before, it certainly can do the same in the future, too.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.

    Sadly, I think you are spot on on this, @thelivingroyale.

    Definitely agreed. Sadly they could do it again, but the money men won't allow the possibility.

    Well, they should certainly have plenty of money now right after the phenomenal success of Skyfall. It's time that we saw every penny on the screen again, as this was Cubby Broccoli's maxim and if it stood the Bond film series in good stead before, it certainly can do the same in the future, too.

    I've no doubt they'll spend the money, but it will all be a calculated risk. No one is actively taking chances these days. TV networks, studios etc. Anything original and successful is utterly left-field, which then becomes the must have product. Problem is, execs can't see it until it's staring them in the face. There are no genuine mavericks left in this day and age, just those mistakenly assigned the the title in hindsight.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't always agree with @Perdogg but he has a point that Bond is currently a trend-follower, rather than a trend-setter. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I don't think Bond has really set any trends since the 60s.

    Sadly, I think you are spot on on this, @thelivingroyale.

    Definitely agreed. Sadly they could do it again, but the money men won't allow the possibility.

    Well, they should certainly have plenty of money now right after the phenomenal success of Skyfall. It's time that we saw every penny on the screen again, as this was Cubby Broccoli's maxim and if it stood the Bond film series in good stead before, it certainly can do the same in the future, too.

    I've no doubt they'll spend the money, but it will all be a calculated risk. No one is actively taking chances these days. TV networks, studios etc. Anything original and successful is utterly left-field, which then becomes the must have product. Problem is, execs can't see it until it's staring them in the face. There are no genuine mavericks left in this day and age, just those mistakenly assigned the the title in hindsight.

    Well said. I think this is also very true of all sectors of the arts in this day and age of 2013.
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