Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,790
    I'll see it definitely, but only once if it's not better than TFA (which I was very *meh* about).
  • Posts: 12,466
    Force Awakens was decent but definitely overrated. It is weaker than all the originals and Revenge still IMO. Very by-the-numbers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Force Awakens was decent but definitely overrated. It is weaker than all the originals and Revenge still IMO. Very by-the-numbers.

    Agreed. Revenge was pretty good. Rogue One even more so IMO.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    Lads (and lassies) ive asked this before im sure but, im still no further into watching any of the SW films. What order should I be watching them in!? Thanks.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    DCisared wrote: »
    Lads (and lassies) ive asked this before im sure but, im still no further into watching any of the SW films. What order should I be watching them in!? Thanks.
    I think you have really only two choices. Which you choose will depend on how important continuity flow within the films is to you as you watch them. If you like continuity (even if it is 'forced' in after the fact) then you can do this (which will give you a linear timeline within the narrative):

    -Phantom Menace
    -Attack of the Clones
    -Revenge of the Sith
    -Rogue One
    -Star Wars
    -Empire Strikes Back
    -Return of the Jedi
    -The Force Awakens
    -The Last Jedi

    If continuity isn't as important to you, then watch them in the order that they have actually been released (which will be a far from linear timeline which starts at one point, then goes back to the past and then moves forward to the future). So as follows:

    -Star Wars
    -Empire Strikes Back
    -Return of the Jedi
    -Phantom Menace
    -Attack of the Clones
    -Revenge of the Sith
    -The Force Awakens
    -Rogue One
    -The Last Jedi
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'd say start with the original trilogy. If you begin with TPM you might not watch another one!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Having given a bit more thought to The Last Jedi, I'm beginning to appreciate what I saw earlier today more. In particular
    I like how the film moves the narrative forward in new unexpected directions. TFA was a great starting point and set the stage for certain expected revelations. TLJ subverted those expectations, which is a good thing.
    Where I think it may have messed up a little is by toying with the audience and throwing up red herrings and directional twists. At least from my perspective, I didn't like being played with. However, that's just first impressions. Now that I know what to expect, I'm sure the 2nd viewing will be much more gratifying.

    The conclusion to the Luke story was very well done in my view. He changed the course of the battle without actually fighting. That's a throwback to Return of the Jedi where he did the same thing.

    The Rey story is developing nicely. She's not the daughter of privilege, nor does she have high midiclorian blood count (cough). Rather, she's just an average gal who believes in doing the right thing and can't be corrupted. That's inspirational.

    I still am not all that satisfied with the Finn/Rose poverty/hardship angle however. I find it a bit too blatant. Having said that, I can appreciate that some audience members may relate to their story, obvious though it may be. Even here, there is the 'tearing down' of the 'hero' notion upon their first meeting. That is a nice touch, from a messaging standpoint to a younger audience. No need to encourage idolatry (something which is all too common these days).

    Even the swashbuckler go getter aggressive style which we've become accustomed to in movie heroes (Poe) is shown to be faulty here. Sometimes it's better to take a more cautious and even handed approach.

    Actually, Rian Johnson is following Kylo Ren's advice in how he is handling this. He is burning down the old (killing it even) constructs and assumptions in order to make way for the new. Speaking of Ren, I'm still not sure if he's 'all' bad. Leia thinks he's a lost cause because she thinks he tried to kill her. He didn't. He laid off the trigger at the very end. He saved Rey too (although he had grander ambitions).
    So this film does smartly subvert expectations, and is likely to get better with repeated viewings. That's a sign of a pretty good film.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 12,466
    I was going to go through all the main films again before seeing The Last Jedi, but it looks like I'm just going in tomorrow with no rewatches. Maybe I'll do a backwards Star Wars marathon before my backwards Bondathon? My feelings about them right now go:

    1. The Empire Strikes Back - Quite easily the best Star Wars film, and the only one I'd consider a truly great film. But what a film it is; perfect in nearly every way.
    2. Revenge of the Sith - Yes, there is still some bad acting and not-so-great things that plague the prequels, but overall this one was very satisfying and enjoyable for me. I love all the action, and the darkness/sadness of Order 66 was definitely achieved.
    3. Return of the Jedi - Unfairly hated. The Ewoks really aren't that bad, and the film does an excellent job of going from the Jabba opening to the long-awaited confrontation with the Emperor. Thought this was an overall excellent ending to the original trilogy.
    4. Star Wars / A New Hope - The original is still a good one, but I simply prefer the 3 listed above - at least for now. Alec Guinness's Ben Kenobi was the biggest highlight here for me. It's a very fun ride overall, but since I wasn't around to see this when it first came out, it doesn't have the same impact on me as it does for older fans.
    5. The Force Awakens - Decent, but far too vanilla and by-the-numbers. I like Rey and Finn, and the action was fine, but the story was unoriginal for the most part. Acceptable, safe return for Star Wars, but I wish they had taken more risks.
    6. Attack of the Clones - Good action, but little of anything else. Probably has the worst collective acting of any of the films. Jango Fett is a character I really like, and so is Count Dooku.
    7. The Phantom Menace - The bottom of the barrel. Besides Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul, there's not a lot I like about this film. The final lightsaber fight is great, but there are more boring segments in this than any other SW film IMO. Just disappointing overall.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Will finally be seeing this in IMAX tomorrow. Can't wait.
  • Posts: 12,466


    Possibly my favorite music from the entire saga. 0:30 through 1:50 is so amazing and overlooked compared to the still-incredible second half of the song.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Very disappointing. I loved The Force Awakens, but all the hard work done there to get fans to fall back in love with the franchise again has been undone here. Back to unnecessary CGI action scenes again that felt more like the prequels, messy, too much going on, too many pointless twists for the sake of it, trying too hard to be clever, trying too hard to be different - and destroying the most legendary SW character of all time (I don't need to say who).

    I really really wanted to like it, and even posted an initial positive response on social media straight after coming out of the cinema, but I've never experienced a film that falls so flat after 24 hours of seeing it.

    It's telling that the audience reaction on RT is so poor. I reckon once the dust settles the critics will come round to this way of thinking too. At the moment it appears they are either caught up in the hype and daren't write a bad review, or they love the film because it goes off in controversial directions and they don't care if it pisses off the fan base in the process.

    In a couple of years time I can see this being placed as one of the worst films in the franchise.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    pachazo wrote: »
    I'd say start with the original trilogy. If you begin with TPM you might not watch another one!

    Also, the prequel trilogy will spoil a lot of the original trilogy for you.
  • Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I'll see it definitely, but only once if it's not better than TFA (which I was very *meh* about).

    I thought TLJ was a lot better. TFA played it safe, TLJ is new and bold, dark and with great character development.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 7,507
    DCisared wrote: »
    Lads (and lassies) ive asked this before im sure but, im still no further into watching any of the SW films. What order should I be watching them in!? Thanks.

    My friend would say "watch 4-8 in order and drop the prequels". I am tempted to agree :P If you have to include them, watch 4 and 5, then add the prequels 1-3 and continue from 6-8 again (4-5 1-3 6-8). This order works well for the continuity too. The thing is that there's great cliff hangers in the original films that are spoiled if you have seen the prequels already. The prequels actually spoil a bit of the mysteri in 4 and 5.

    Edit: If you want to include Rogue One as well (which you should), put it after Revenge of the Sith.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 2,107
    I'd be tempted to say, watch them in order they were made so you wont be spoiled about the big reveal and such. But then again, the big reveal must be public knowledge by now for even people who have not seen Star Wars.

    You can start with crap (episodes 1-3, although episode 3 is pretty good , compared to the previous 2), watch Rogue One (a big budget fan film) then the orinal trilogy and the two new ones.

    1-2 aren't that necessary. Episode 3 gives a lot of backstory. Episodes 1-2 are about space politics.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Interesting to see fans are not agreeing on TLJ. I will post my own thoughts later once I’ve seen it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    @jetsetwilly
    I seriously doubt that. Disney threw in enough 'old', enough 'new' and enough 'borrowed' to get almost every segment of their target demographic pleased. It's dark at times, but also funny; it provides fan service yet introduces new stuff too; it makes some subplots slightly more complicated, whereas other ones are just cartoonishly simple. TLJ is both a greatest hits, including in its musical efforts, and an expansion of the myth. The proverbial "good Star Wars film" may be nothing more than a collection of great moments in the minds of most audience members. Make every scene work on its own, and you've got a guaranteed hit. Star Wars is like candy; throw some chocolates, sweets and lolly pops in a bowl, and though it's an incoherent mess and a culinary nightmare, every bite I'm going to have will be good and so I'll be satisfied. Just leave the sour taste of Jar Jar out and get these people to act either "fast", "intense" or both, and we're eating it up. This is how it works these days. What ESB did was almost coincidental in my opinion. Best character moments, best myth expansion and all that. I'm there, along with most other Star Wars fans. But I'm beginning to see that film as an exception. Every other Star Wars film, except for the original one, which is unbeatable, is flawed in some respects, but redeems itself in others, by interjecting what makes us cringe with solid, high-quality moments.

    I'm quite confident TLJ will not lose its grip on the larger audiences any time soon or be entually regarded as one of the worst. It can't do wrong since it works from a tested formula. TFA was an Episode IV redo and it grabbed gold at the BO. TLJ may not sit well with those who are looking for originality and "brain food", because it's just another one of "those Star Wars films". But most people out there don't care about that. They aren't here to see Episode so-and-so, the next chapter in that mythology we all love so much; no, they're here to see "Star Wars", a brand of entertainment, with nostalgic magic for the parents and grandparents, and cutesy little furry or rolling thingies for the kids, with loud space action and lightsaber duels for the boys, and some simple romances for the girls. It's all here, a family fun pack. That's what Star Wars is; that's what it's always been, under Lucas, under Disney. ESB was lightening in a bottle. The other ones? Coca Cola in a bottle: sweet, sparkling, addictive. It's no wine, nor champagne though.

    And in my opinion, it doesn't have to be. ;-)
  • Posts: 1,314
    The Last Jedi is the Moonraker or the Die Another Day of the Star Wars franchise. It jettisons most of the logic and established rules out the window. It uses weak humour. It winks at the audience to the detriment of the film.

    Problem is each bond film is generally a clean slate where as Star Wars is one long story.

    I can't see this having anywhere near the legs of TFA in terms of box office or legacy.

    Beautiful looking but What Star Wars film isn't?
  • Posts: 7,507
    Matt007 wrote: »
    The Last Jedi is the Moonraker or the Die Another Day of the Star Wars franchise. It jettisons most of the logic and established rules out the window. It uses weak humour. It winks at the audience to the detriment of the film.

    Problem is each bond film is generally a clean slate where as Star Wars is one long story.

    I can't see this having anywhere near the legs of TFA in terms of box office or legacy.

    Beautiful looking but What Star Wars film isn't?


    What established rules exactly?
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 1,314
    These....
    Things like force ghosts apparently having powers. I mean - if force ghosts are so powerful why doesn't luke kill himself then go and fight kylo ren with no fear of dying. Yoda can apparently summon the force to destroy things. This is so dumb it's unfathomable that it ever made it through script edits.

    Come to think of it why didn't Luke go to fight kylo ren in person. He might have actually killed him which would've ended everyone's problems. Even if he didn't he would have created a diversion for the others to escape and he died anyway.

    Astral projection. Might have been handy in the past. Kind of like r2d2 s rocket legs.

    Leia is now a fully fledged force user who can survive the cold dead vacuum of space without her blood boiling within a minute.

    Deus ex machina galore.
  • lol I can't believe nobody mentioned that milking scene yet! :))

    I'm just glad he squirted it into a bottle first, instead of 'the direct approach' if you know what I mean! God, could you imagine??

    I'm liking the movie a bit more, the more I think about it, but I still don't know where they'll go with Episode IX.
    All Star Wars movies have something to nitpick. Example, lose the entire casino, Finn/Rose Benicio Del Toro bit and you'd shave a good half hour off a long movie.
    Just say Rose can do the code hacking, boom, done.

    What was disappointing to me was what ultimately became of Luke. I mean, we grew up with him, and at the end of TFA we all had high hopes of him ditching that 'Space Ireland' planet and joining his sister. Unfortunately, Luke did say "I came here to die." and he meant it. That was all beautifully shot though and as I get over the fact that this is how Luke's story ends, I'm becoming more and more ok with it.

    But am I alone in thinking a scene like that would have been better suited for the final episode of the trilogy?
    All we have in Episode IX now is Kylo & Rey when you get down to it. But that isn't all bad, as Kylo is one of the most unpredictable antagonists in years, with a fantastic actor to boot. I'm excited to see what happens, but will miss Luke, Han & Leia.

    Yeah, I definitely need to see it again...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @jetsetwilly I can understand your concerns. Please see my last post (spoiler section) on how I'm coming to terms with and beginning to appreciate it more.

    I read somewhere that Rian Johnson has been given the keys to the new trilogy. If true, that explains what he's doing here, which is basically jettisoning some of the old constructions, assumptions and folklore to make way for something new.
    its' not so much about destiny and privilege any more, but rather about free will. Anyone can be anything. The force is for everyone.

    I think the film lacks a bit of the emotional resonance which TFA balanced just right. One feels like Luke's story should have had more impact. Having said that, most of us will go out with a whimper. The hey days are in the youth and middle age. So it reflects reality to a great degree. He died a hero and he did it without actually fighting.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    In the theatre getting ready for TLJ, Can’t wait, like Rogue one, if fans don’t like it I probably will.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    Fans like it, but not all, as is the case with every new instalment in a long running series, isn't it? :)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @JamesBondKenya, I will tell you that the opening space sequence is seriously top notch. Enjoy!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It is getting nothing but great reviews here.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I don’t have time to say all my feelings ( I will later) but I thought it was awful, the worst, maybe even worse than all the prequels.

    2/10
  • Posts: 2,402
    I cannot believe how nobody understands
    the fact that the scene with the kid at the end is there to cap off the film with the statement "The Last Jedi (Luke) has died, but the LAST Jedi have not died."
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 12,466
    I don’t have time to say all my feelings ( I will later) but I thought it was awful, the worst, maybe even worse than all the prequels.

    2/10

    Wow. I'm more and more interested to see how I will feel about this divisive film. Seeing it sometime soon. I wouldn't imagine it being better than Empire or worse than Phantom... but nothing is certain.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I wouldn't imagine it being better than Empire or worse than Phantom... but nothing is certain.
    I'm quite certain nearly everyone can agree on this....hopefully.
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