Bond movie ranking (Simple list, no details)

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  • Posts: 7,507
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    After my recent Bondathon of Moore and Brosnan films i'm afraid in this latest ranking Brozza gets a bit of a proverbial kicking. Much prefer Moore to Brosnan as Bond. Never thought i'd say that...

    1. Goldfinger
    2. From Russia With Love
    3. Dr No
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Casino Royale
    6. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7. Thunderball
    8. Quantum of Solace
    9. Skyfall
    10. For Your Eyes Only
    11. The Spy Who Loved Me
    12. Octopussy
    13. Live And Let Die
    14. Licence To Kill
    15. Tomorrow Never Dies
    16. The Man With The Golden Gun
    17. Moonraker
    18. You Only Live Twice
    19. Goldeneye
    20. The World Is Not Enough
    21. Spectre
    22. A View To A Kill
    23. Diamonds Are Forever
    24. Die Another Day



    Knew you'd come to your senses 're Brossa, Leonardpine!
    Just kidding!
    Really good list.
    Top 8 are perfect!

    Thanks! LTK has moved up my rankings as well 😁

    Yes, always good to see LTK do well as it divides a lot of the fans!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,025
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    After my recent Bondathon of Moore and Brosnan films i'm afraid in this latest ranking Brozza gets a bit of a proverbial kicking. Much prefer Moore to Brosnan as Bond. Never thought i'd say that...

    1. Goldfinger
    2. From Russia With Love
    3. Dr No
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Casino Royale
    6. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7. Thunderball
    8. Quantum of Solace
    9. Skyfall
    10. For Your Eyes Only
    11. The Spy Who Loved Me
    12. Octopussy
    13. Live And Let Die
    14. Licence To Kill
    15. Tomorrow Never Dies
    16. The Man With The Golden Gun
    17. Moonraker
    18. You Only Live Twice
    19. Goldeneye
    20. The World Is Not Enough
    21. Spectre
    22. A View To A Kill
    23. Diamonds Are Forever
    24. Die Another Day



    Knew you'd come to your senses 're Brossa, Leonardpine!
    Just kidding!
    Really good list.
    Top 8 are perfect!

    Thanks! LTK has moved up my rankings as well 😁

    Yes, always good to see LTK do well as it divides a lot of the fans!

    I was frosty to it for a long time and i do still have problems with it, but it also has a lot of good stuff in it. Have enjoyed the last few viewings.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited November 2019 Posts: 3,497
    Ok so... Octopussy & TWINE have swapped places...

    As did TLD & LTK...

    FYEO is also one up.


    1. From Russia With Love
    2. Casino Royale
    3. Dr No
    4. Thunderball
    5. Licence To Kill
    6. Goldfinger
    7. Skyfall
    8. For Your Eyes Only
    9. The Living Daylights
    10. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    11. Goldeneye
    12. The Spy Who Loved Me
    13. Quantum Of Solace
    14. Octopussy
    15. Spectre
    16. The World Is Not Enough
    17. The Man With The Golden Gun
    18. Diamonds Are Forever
    19. Live & Let Die
    20. Tomorrow Never Dies
    21. You Only Live Twice
    22. Moonraker
    23. A View To A Kill
    24. Die Another Day
  • Posts: 16,170
    1. GOLDFINGER
    2. ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
    3. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
    4. THUNDERBALL
    5. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    6. DR NO
    7. CASINO ROYALE 06
    8. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
    9. OCTOPUSSY/NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN
    10. SKYFALL
    11. LIVE AND LET DIE
    12. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    13. MOONRAKER
    14. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
    15. LICENCE TO KILL
    16. GOLDENEYE
    17. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
    18. A VIEW TO A KILL/ CR 54
    19. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
    20. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
    21. SPECTRE
    22. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    23. TOMORROW NEVER DIES
    24. DIE ANOTHER DAY/ CR 67
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited November 2019 Posts: 10,591
    1. Skyfall
    2. Casino Royale
    3. The Spy Who Loved Me
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Goldfinger
    6. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7. From Russia With Love
    8. The Living Daylights
    9. Quantum Of Solace
    10. Thunderball
    11. Spectre
    12. The World is Not Enough
    13. Moonraker
    14. Live and Let Die
    15. Dr. No
    16. You Only Live Twice
    17. Tomorrow Never Dies
    18. A View to A Kill
    19. Octopussy
    20. Die Another Day
    21. Diamonds are Forever
    22. The Man with the Golden Gun
    23. License to Kill
    24. For Your Eyes Only
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    jake24 wrote: »
    1. Skyfall
    2. Casino Royale
    3. The Spy Who Loved Me
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Goldfinger
    6. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7. From Russia With Love
    8. The Living Daylights
    9. Quantum Of Solace
    10. Thunderball
    11. Spectre
    12. The World is Not Enough
    13. Moonraker
    14. Live and Let Die
    15. You Only Live Twice
    16. Tomorrow Never Dies
    17. A View to A Kill
    18. Octopussy
    19. Die Another Day
    20. License to Kill
    21. Diamonds are Forever
    22. The Man with the Golden Gun
    23. License to Kill
    24. For Your Eyes Only

    @jake24 you really don’t like Dr.No at all do you.
    But you’ve given LTK two ranks. ;)
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited November 2019 Posts: 10,591
    Benny wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    1. Skyfall
    2. Casino Royale
    3. The Spy Who Loved Me
    4. GoldenEye
    5. Goldfinger
    6. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7. From Russia With Love
    8. The Living Daylights
    9. Quantum Of Solace
    10. Thunderball
    11. Spectre
    12. The World is Not Enough
    13. Moonraker
    14. Live and Let Die
    15. You Only Live Twice
    16. Tomorrow Never Dies
    17. A View to A Kill
    18. Octopussy
    19. Die Another Day
    20. License to Kill
    21. Diamonds are Forever
    22. The Man with the Golden Gun
    23. License to Kill
    24. For Your Eyes Only

    @jake24 you really don’t like Dr.No at all do you.
    But you’ve given LTK two ranks. ;)
    Not at all. In fact I despise it so much that I refuse to include it in my rankings.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    1. GOLDFINGER
    2. ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
    3. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
    4. THUNDERBALL
    5. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    6. DR NO
    7. CASINO ROYALE 06
    8. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
    9. OCTOPUSSY/NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN
    10. SKYFALL
    11. LIVE AND LET DIE
    12. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    13. MOONRAKER
    14. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
    15. LICENCE TO KILL
    16. GOLDENEYE
    17. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
    18. A VIEW TO A KILL/ CR 54
    19. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
    20. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
    21. SPECTRE
    22. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    23. TOMORROW NEVER DIES
    24. DIE ANOTHER DAY/ CR 67

    This week we have FRWL and SF in the same spot.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited November 2019 Posts: 814
    @FoxRox and @JamesCraig have outstanding top fives. I think TSWLM is a damn fine film, but I could never put it in my top five. The top five is reserved for truly fantastic entries. TSWLM isn't even my favorite Moore film. Opinions are almost like fingerprints.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,497
    @FoxRox and @JamesCraig have outstanding top fives. I think TSWLM is a damn fine film, but I could never put it in my top five. The top five is reserved for truly fantastic entries. TSWLM isn't even my favorite Moore film. Opinions are almost like fingerprints.

    Thank you! :-?

    I used to like TSWLM more, but I've outgrown it a bit. It's still Moore's second best imo.
  • Posts: 12,476
    @Thunderball Thanks! A long time ago I think TSWLM was my #5 or so, and I do still love it, but there are just a few I love a bit more. It’s pretty safe in my Top 10 still for now.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 1,596
    Alright, I'm somewhat gearing up/feeling a Bondathon coming on once I get a break in December. I've seen a small handful recently (mostly the Craig films, with my partner). I'll throw up my (forever in flux) ranking here for reference. Emphasis that this is a pretty loose ranking all the way up in down, because I know some of you have very firm ideas about where each entry belongs I want to be clear that by and large (few exceptions) I do not. Lots of interchangeable slots.

    1. THUNDERBALL
    2. GOLDFINGER
    3. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
    4. CASINO ROYALE
    5. GOLDENEYE
    6. DR. NO
    7. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    8. OCTOPUSSY
    9. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
    10. SKYFALL
    11. ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
    12. LIVE AND LET DIE
    13. MOONRAKER
    14. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    15. TOMORROW NEVER DIES
    16. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
    17. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
    18. A VIEW TO A KILL
    19. DIE ANOTHER DAY
    20. LICENCE TO KILL
    21. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    22. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
    23. SPECTRE
    24. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH


    My god I need another Bondathon, because ranking some of these so low was genuinely painful because I've been a vocal defender of some titles that I have ranked really low all things considered (AVTAK, MR, DAD, many others).

    I'm far from satisfied with this list. Hopefully some fresh viewings soon will put some into perspective. Hell, beyond the top 5 and bottom 2 I'm really not sure of much of it (and even the top 5 is largely interchangeable, but it is at least my definitive top 5/6). Bummer.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,025
    Alright, I'm somewhat gearing up/feeling a Bondathon coming on once I get a break in December. I've seen a small handful recently (mostly the Craig films, with my partner). I'll throw up my (forever in flux) ranking here for reference. Emphasis that this is a pretty loose ranking all the way up in down, because I know some of you have very firm ideas about where each entry belongs I want to be clear that by and large (few exceptions) I do not. Lots of interchangeable slots.

    1. THUNDERBALL
    2. GOLDFINGER
    3. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
    4. CASINO ROYALE
    5. GOLDENEYE
    6. DR. NO
    7. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    8. OCTOPUSSY
    9. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
    10. SKYFALL
    11. ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
    12. LIVE AND LET DIE
    13. MOONRAKER
    14. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    15. TOMORROW NEVER DIES
    16. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
    17. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
    18. A VIEW TO A KILL
    19. DIE ANOTHER DAY
    20. LICENCE TO KILL
    21. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    22. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
    23. SPECTRE
    24. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH


    My god I need another Bondathon, because ranking some of these so low was genuinely painful because I've been a vocal defender of some titles that I have ranked really low all things considered (AVTAK, MR, DAD, many others).

    I'm far from satisfied with this list. Hopefully some fresh viewings soon will put some into perspective. Hell, beyond the top 5 and bottom 2 I'm really not sure of much of it (and even the top 5 is largely interchangeable, but it is at least my definitive top 5/6). Bummer.

    'Fresh viewings' certainly do lend perspective as i've recently discovered.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 16,170
    1. GOLDFINGER
    2. ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
    3. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
    4. THUNDERBALL
    5. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
    6. DR. NO
    7. THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
    8. OCTOPUSSY/NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN
    9. SKYFALL
    10. LIVE AND LET DIE
    11. CASINO ROYALE 06
    12. MOONRAKER
    13. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
    14. FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
    15. LICENCE TO KILL
    16. A VIEW TO A KILL
    17. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
    18. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
    19. GOLDENEYE/ CR 54
    20. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
    21. SPECTRE
    22. TOMORROW NEVER DIES
    23. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    24. DIE ANOTHER DAY/CR 67
  • @ToTheRight I do not like NSNA at all, but otherwise our top 10-12 is incredibly similar albeit ordered a little differently. Pretty neat.
  • Posts: 16,170
    @ToTheRight I do not like NSNA at all, but otherwise our top 10-12 is incredibly similar albeit ordered a little differently. Pretty neat.

    I've always had a soft spot for the un-official rival Bond, @ThighsOfXenia. The summer of '83 was the period when I really got into Bond. I loved OP and NSNA that autumn made me want to see all the Connery films.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2019 Posts: 7,144
    Just finished my first Bondathon on blu-ray in chronological order. Time to do my first rankings in a long time.
    I'm sure you'll excuse me for using my new Nightfire ranking system to illustrate my blatantly honest but nevertheless extremely eclectic taste in Bond.

    Platinum
    1. The Living Daylights
    2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3. Quantum of Solace
    4. Licence to Kill

    Gold
    5. GoldenEye
    6. Thunderball
    7. The Man with the Golden Gun
    8. The World Is Not Enough

    Silver
    9. From Russia with Love
    10. Octopussy
    11. Moonraker

    Bronze
    12. Casino Royale
    13. Dr. No
    14. Goldfinger
    15. Die Another Day
    16. A View to a Kill

    Mission completed
    17. You Only Live Twice
    18. Live and Let Die
    19. The Spy Who Loved Me
    20. Diamonds Are Forever

    Mission failed
    21. Spectre
    22. Skyfall
    23. For Your Eyes Only
    24. Tomorrow Never Dies

    (Edit: decided to leave out Never Say Never Again after much consideration. It would have ended at the bottom anyway.)
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    That's a unique & quite interesting top 24 you got there... :-?
  • Posts: 7,507
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Just finished my first Bondathon on blu-ray in chronological order. Time to do my first rankings in a long time.
    I'm sure you'll excuse me for using my new Nightfire ranking system to illustrate my blatantly honest but nevertheless extremely eclectic taste in Bond.

    Platinum
    1. The Living Daylights
    2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3. Quantum of Solace
    4. Licence to Kill

    Gold
    5. GoldenEye
    6. Thunderball
    7. The Man with the Golden Gun
    8. The World Is Not Enough

    Silver
    9. From Russia with Love
    10. Octopussy
    11. Moonraker

    Bronze
    12. Casino Royale
    13. Dr. No
    14. Goldfinger
    15. Die Another Day
    16. A View to a Kill

    Mission completed
    17. You Only Live Twice
    18. Live and Let Die
    19. The Spy Who Loved Me
    20. Diamonds Are Forever

    Mission failed
    21. Spectre
    22. Skyfall
    23. For Your Eyes Only
    24. Tomorrow Never Dies

    (Edit: decided to leave out Never Say Never Again after much consideration. It would have ended at the bottom anyway.)

    3 of your top 4 are in my top 3!!
    ( OHMSS, TLD AND LTK!)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2019 Posts: 7,144
    Well you know what they say about great minds @Mathis1 ;)

    With Tim being my favourite Bond, both of his films are dear to me. Though with that being said, I think if I'd try to remain objective both of them would still feature in my top 10.
  • Posts: 7,507
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Well you know what they say about great minds @Mathis1 ;)

    With Tim being my favourite Bond, both of his films are dear to me. Though with that being said, I think if I'd try to remain objective both of them would still feature in my top 10.

    Exactly how I feel about them!
    Dalton will always be Bond for me, though I love Craig in the role and I've a soft spot for Laz, and OHMSS is a classic. Looking forward to my Xmas viewing of it! It's like a premier to me each year!!
  • Posts: 12,476
    https://thegww.com/james-bond-films-ranked-from-worst-to-best/

    Interesting list here (I'll type it below for those who want to see without details); I disagree with much of it, but still like bits of it - solid Top 7 IMO:

    1. The Spy Who Loved Me
    2. Skyfall
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. Casino Royale
    5. Licence to Kill
    6. GoldenEye
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Man with the Golden Gun
    9. Thunderball
    10. Octopussy
    11. The World Is Not Enough
    12. The Living Daylights
    13. Moonraker
    14. Live and Let Die
    15. You Only Live Twice
    16. Spectre
    17. From Russia with Love
    18. For Your Eyes Only
    19. Dr. No
    20. Tomorrow Never Dies
    21. A View to a Kill
    22. Diamonds Are Forever
    23. Die Another Day
    24. Quantum of Solace
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,497
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

    You're definitely not quite half monk, half hitman. ;-)
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    JamesCraig wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

    You're definitely not quite half monk, half hitman. ;-)

    My 00 status has been rescinded.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

    My beloved OHMSS next to that disaster DAD!!
    OOOF!!
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

    My beloved OHMSS next to that disaster DAD!!
    OOOF!!

    He's causing quite a commotion...

    License to kill, history of violence... I could be speaking to my own reflection...
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    My list is always guaranteed to ruffle some feathers.

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Thunderball
    3. Goldeneye
    4. The Living Daylights
    5. Tomorrow Never Dies
    6. Spectre
    7. Goldfinger
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. You Only Live Twice
    10. Skyfall
    11. The Man With The Golden Gun
    12. License To Kill
    13. From Russia With Love
    14. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. Die Another Day
    16. For Your Eyes Only
    17. Live And Let Die
    18. Dr. No
    19. Casino Royale
    20. Octopussy
    21. Diamond's Are Forever
    22. Moonraker
    23. Quantum Of Solace
    24. A View To A Kill

    My beloved OHMSS next to that disaster DAD!!
    OOOF!!

    Yeah, you're right... OHMSS should be lower. Can't have it so close to a masterpiece like DAD :P
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's the spirit!

    Atleast @GoldenGun will appreciate my list.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I appreciate the diversity in ranking. Some people on here actually get seriously upset and offended by other's evaluations of these films (not as a goof, as I assume @Mathis1 's response was, but genuinely angry); I have seen it.

    Oh I have no doubt about that. Luckily I am just here to celebrate Bond, good or bad. I don't want to offend anyone.

    Every movie in this franchise is somebody's favourite and I don't want to take that away from them.
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