Bond movie ranking (Simple list, no details)

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  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,596
    TripAces wrote: »
    unlike DAF, MR tries to be a serious film.

    Absolutely not.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,578
    TripAces wrote: »
    unlike DAF, MR tries to be a serious film.

    Absolutely not.

    The first act of MR is played straight (with the exception of Jaws landing in the circus tent.) When Bond arrives in Venice, the tone of the film shifts, and we realize we've been had.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think the film presents itself as light entertainment from the outset. Yes there's the Moonraker's highjacking but then we get Moneypenny's "last leg" joke.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Your asterisks for AVTAK are a few of the reasons I enjoy it so much. It's whacky but in a good way. Some Bond films, such as FYEO, can't make that tonal zaniness work (in my opinion) as well.
    AVTAK is far from the worst Bond, and has much to recommend it IMO. I've rated the Bonds many times, this time I was attempting simple classification.

    A tal is still better than dad.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Avtak is still better than dad.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well, the results are in from my latest Bondathon.
    Some of them are separated by only the slimmest of margins. As a result, some fluctuation always occurs.

    1) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    2) Casino Royale
    3) From Russia With Love
    4) Skyfall
    5) The Spy Who Loved Me
    6) GoldenEye
    7) Live And Let Die
    8) Dr. No
    9) For Your Eyes Only
    10) Goldfinger
    11) Quantum of Solace
    12) Octopussy
    13) Moonraker
    14) Thunderball
    15) The Living Daylights
    16) The World Is Not Enough
    17) A View To A Kill
    18) Diamonds Are Forever
    19) You Only Live Twice
    20) Tomorrow Never Dies
    21) The Man With The Golden Gun
    22) Licence To Kill
    23) Die Another Day

    Its criminal how low LTK is! Where are all the Fleming fans...???
  • Posts: 1,552
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Its criminal how low LTK is! Where are all the Fleming fans...???
    Watched an edited version on TV this afternoon (it started at 3.40, so they couldn't show everything, unfortunately) and it is still one of my favourite Bond films.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I agree, it's high on my list too.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    It's my 5th favourite, but not because of its links to Fleming. Fleming and cinematic Bond just don't go hand in hand for me.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    How so? Bab,s was taught by Cubby to always go back to the novels when they were stuck for direction? It is not a coincidence that the best bond films follow Fleming........ohmss, frwl, dn, gf, cr, LTK, tld, tb etc etc.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited March 2015 Posts: 5,080
    I don't judge the Bond films merely by their links to Fleming's novels. They are separate entities. IMO, there hasn't been a true portrayal of Fleming's Bond as of yet, and I don't think there ever will be. Yes, the films contain elements of the novels (heck, even Die Another Day and Moonraker do!), but even the films one could argue are the most Flemingesque (FRWL, DN) are still disparate.

    As for your second point, that is merely your own opinion.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Fair points, but dn, ohmss and gf etc are very very close to the novels. Tb is even closer.
  • Posts: 1,596
    Good points, @MayDayDiVicenzo.

    Also, @TripAces, I still disagree completely. Moonraker never once presents itself as a very serious film. Levity, jokes, and fantastical spectacle from the get go. Gilbert sets the mood almost instantly: an escapist, bombastic, humorous, entertaining ride.

    There are moments of great seriousness (Corinne's death, centrifuge, among others), but that does not mean Moonraker presents itself as "a serious film." Moore's performance oozes cool and confidence and suave swagger, Lonsdale's line delivery is deliciously campy, and the plot itself is absolutely absurd (in my opinion it's absurd in a good way, but I digress).

    It's hard for me to see how anyone could think that Gilbert and company crafted Moonraker as "serious," which is what you're asserting. They didn't. They set out to make a film of spectacle and entertainment, full of humor, levity. There are moments of violence, darkness, suspense, and "seriousness," but that does not make it a serious movie.

    Whether or not the final film and its tone sits right with you is entirely your opinion.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I don't judge the Bond films merely by their links to Fleming's novels. They are separate entities. IMO, there hasn't been a true portrayal of Fleming's Bond as of yet, and I don't think there ever will be. Yes, the films contain elements of the novels (heck, even Die Another Day and Moonraker do!), but even the films one could argue are the most Flemingesque (FRWL, DN) are still disparate.
    ^ Post of the week.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Good points, @MayDayDiVicenzo.

    Also, @TripAces, I still disagree completely. Moonraker never once presents itself as a very serious film. Levity, jokes, and fantastical spectacle from the get go. Gilbert sets the mood almost instantly: an escapist, bombastic, humorous, entertaining ride.

    There are moments of great seriousness (Corinne's death, centrifuge, among others), but that does not mean Moonraker presents itself as "a serious film." Moore's performance oozes cool and confidence and suave swagger, Lonsdale's line delivery is deliciously campy, and the plot itself is absolutely absurd (in my opinion it's absurd in a good way, but I digress).

    It's hard for me to see how anyone could think that Gilbert and company crafted Moonraker as "serious," which is what you're asserting. They didn't. They set out to make a film of spectacle and entertainment, full of humor, levity. There are moments of violence, darkness, suspense, and "seriousness," but that does not make it a serious movie.

    Whether or not the final film and its tone sits right with you is entirely your opinion.

    thanks you for these kind words.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2015 Posts: 4,578
    Good points, @MayDayDiVicenzo.

    Also, @TripAces, I still disagree completely. Moonraker never once presents itself as a very serious film. Levity, jokes, and fantastical spectacle from the get go. Gilbert sets the mood almost instantly: an escapist, bombastic, humorous, entertaining ride.

    There are moments of great seriousness (Corinne's death, centrifuge, among others), but that does not mean Moonraker presents itself as "a serious film." Moore's performance oozes cool and confidence and suave swagger, Lonsdale's line delivery is deliciously campy, and the plot itself is absolutely absurd (in my opinion it's absurd in a good way, but I digress).

    It's hard for me to see how anyone could think that Gilbert and company crafted Moonraker as "serious," which is what you're asserting. They didn't. They set out to make a film of spectacle and entertainment, full of humor, levity. There are moments of violence, darkness, suspense, and "seriousness," but that does not make it a serious movie.

    Whether or not the final film and its tone sits right with you is entirely your opinion.

    That's right, it is. I am only discussing why I have it listed as the worst Bond film. Fans are welcome to disagree; there are plenty of fans who love MR and FYEO, two films that make me squirm. If we all agreed on these matters, what fun would that be? :)

    That said, I don't think Gilbert intended the whole film to be serious, just that its first act sets us up for it to be so. For me, the first 20 minutes or so of MR are really good, and then I am let down by silliness.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Its criminal how low LTK is! Where are all the Fleming fans...???
    Well, if that's considered criminal, then by all means lock me up and throw away the key. With my luck they'd be playing LTK on an endless loop. ;)
    Seriously though, what's this about Fleming fans? I have OHMSS, FRWL and DN all ranked highly and they are much more representative of Fleming than LTK is.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,712
    Working on the set of MR would have cured you from sadness for life. If anyone from the cast or crew said that they were working on a serious film, they would have been escorted off from the set. ;)
  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 260
    Honestly Quantum of Solace and maybe even Moonraker are on the verge of topping Goldfinger for me, and I strongly dislike both of those films.

    Goldfinger, for all its faults, is still in my top ten as a "classic". It has such a panache to it and is for me a "fun" bond. The Miami bit and the golf game alone make it worth watching.

    Moonraker, while much maligned, mostly with good reason, still holds a place in my heart. Seeing it for the first time as a young teen, it was more spectacle to me than Star Wars.

    With all due respect to those of you who like it, Quantum of Solace is literally unwatchable for me....and it has nothing to do with story, actors, etc. Rather it is that horrible, ill conceived "breakneck" editing which in the cinema gave many of us a headache, and even after a couple viewings in my home theater I still cant make out exactly what is happening in many scenes. Yea, that's right: to me its so bad I'm willing to write it off on that one point alone. Shame on Marc Foster! It is so far from intelligent movie making its a wonder Broccoli and Wilson didn't step in and veto him (then again, these are the same two who, apparently, looked at a computer generated Bond paragliding a wave in Die Another Day and were ok with it). If only someone like Frankenheimer had been been at the helm...he might have topped the action benchmark he set with Ronin. Now THAT would be something.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,596
    That form of action, cinematography, and editing can be effective. It just seems to me that the crew filming the action in QOS was comprised primarily of baboons. Paul Greengrass and his crew do a fine job with it in the latter two Bourne films, which is clearly the style QOS was trying to ape (pun absolutely intended) let's not kid ourselves.

    Also, @TripAces, I wasn't shaming you for disliking MR, merely pointing out that I disagreed with your assertions that it presented itself as a serious film. Thanks for clarifying though, as I can see where you're coming from with the opening act, more or less, although I still think it had a light tone from the get go your opinion is reasonable.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2016 Posts: 8,383
    DN
    OHMSS
    TB
    FRWL
    TLD
    GF
    CR
    LALD
    OP
    DAF
    SF
    SP
    TSWLM
    FYEO
    YOLT
    TMWTGG
    AVTAK
    LTK
    GE
    TND
    QOS
    MR
    DAD
    TWINE
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    sunsanvil wrote: »
    With all due respect to those of you who like it, Quantum of Solace is literally unwatchable for me....and it has nothing to do with story, actors, etc. Rather it is that horrible, ill conceived "breakneck" editing which in the cinema gave many of us a headache, and even after a couple viewings in my home theater I still cant make out exactly what is happening in many scenes.
    You clearly do not suffer from ADD as I do; I find it all to be entirely comprehensible. :))
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,596
    If you break down a few sequences in that film (primarily the initial "Mitchell is bad!" bit and other moments of the Siena foot chase) there are shots that literally do nothing to push the chase / action sequence forward in any cohesive way. Frames that are, relatively speaking of course, capturing nothing.

    As I mentioned above, I'm not one of those "handheld camera + fast editing ruins action cinema" folks. Do I think the majority of films that use this technique use it lazily and poorly? Yes. When done right do I think it works? Yes.

    Many of QOS' (namely those I mentioned above, and various parts of the speedboat chase as well) sequences are simply poorly made. There's a few videos floating about on YouTube that slow them down, split them up, freeze up frames, and objectively prove the ridiculously bad technicals on display.

    On a technical level. Nothing against the actors of their performances. Craig has always been, for my money, quite convincing in action beats.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    QOS was too fast for most people.
  • Posts: 1,596
    If you'd read closely I never once criticized it for its speed.

    Also, I've written what I wanted to write about QOS, probably more than once, and I'm sure I've annoyed folks. Many people have said, "Love it or hate it, it is often talked about." They're right. Fortunately I don't hate it (overall, I'd even say I like it). However, I think I'm done talking about it.

    That being said I'm sure I'll have something to say about it after the next time I see it, but that's a bit different.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I like QOS. But although the pre-title car chase is thrilling the Director (Forster) cannot handle action....far too many close ups which makes it hard to follow. The free running in Sienna and Opera chase through the restuarant being noteable examples of poor directing style (or trying to stylish at the expense of the action).
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 1,263
    I have been reluctant to contribute my rankings to this thread because I can't do it without subjectivity. A list with my purely critical opinion would appear slightly different. I've had the entire Bond Collection On Demand this month and have been able to watch them at my leisure. As such, I decided to base my rankings on the appeal of the film to interest me in repeat watches weighed against the critical value of the film.

    1. Casino Royale
    2. Skyfall
    3. From Russia With Love
    4. Goldfinger
    5. Goldeneye
    6. For Your Eyes Only
    7. Tomorrow Never Dies
    8. The Living Daylights
    9. Dr. No
    10. Quantum Of Solace
    11. Octopussy
    12. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    13. Diamonds Are Forever
    14. The Spy Who Loved Me
    15. Thunderball
    16. The World Is Not Enough
    17. You Only Live Twice
    18. Die Another Day
    19. The Man With The Golden Gun
    20. Live And Let Die
    21. Moonraker
    22. A View To A Kill
    23. Licence To Kill

    Fun Facts:
    - I long considered Moonraker the worst film, but it ended up interesting me after a few watches to make a small leap forward.
    - Diamonds Are Forever almost cracked my Top 10. I actually had it at 9 for a moment before weighing the critical value.

    If you covered up this list and asked me to make a new one in a week I wouldn't be able to repeat these results. The further down the list goes, the more difficult it is to place films because I feel like I am insulting some of them by their placement. For example, A View To A Kill was one of the first Bond films I ever saw and parts of it have always been appealing to me, but as a whole I just can't put it any higher because there are equally as many enjoyable qualities about the films immediately above it.

    Welp. So much for no details...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Mansfield wrote: »
    23. Licence To Kill
    We clearly shall never be fast friends...
    [-(
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's normal for you. (me too, I guess)
    Put DN, FRWL, TLD, or LTK at the bottom and you lose my taking you seriously as a Bond fan. Sorry, but those are my sacred four. Slate Moore or Brosnan or Lazenby or later Connery or Craig all you want.
    :))
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 1,263
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Put DN, FRWL, TLD, or LTK at the bottom and you lose my taking you seriously as a Bond fan. Sorry, but those are my sacred four. Slate Moore or Brosnan or Lazenby or later Connery or Craig all you want.
    :))
    Interestingly enough I have the other three in my top 10. It seems a bit excessive to me not to be taken seriously for having a contrasting viewpoint. Licence To Kill just doesn't do it for me as a Bond film. As close as Dalton may be to mirroring the Bond Fleming created, it doesn't make the fact that I find his performance in the film any less jarring. And by that I don't mean taking the character to the edge, which I have a deep appreciation for with my high marks for the Craig films and Dalton's first. It's completely unbalanced when a character presentation that dark fails to make me believe his casual attempts at being human with humor or his nice guy romantic charm after pinning the same girl down at gunpoint. As I stated in another discussion thread on here, his performance is all over the map in the movie. That is something he managed to balance markedly better in his first outing and Craig has avoided in all of his outings.
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