It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
This was a dramatic turnaround from watching SP yesterday, which left me quite disappointed and significantly lowered in my estimation. SF, meanwhile, felt as fresh and awesome as ever, and continues its run of impressing me with every watch. Ever since it released in 2012, it has been in my Top 5 Bond films, and I think it will probably retain that high honor.
I prefer almost everything about SF to SP - even the PTS now (SP used to be higher, and SF used to be lower for me; basically swapping). The title song, title sequence, villain, Bond performance, soundtrack (admittedly both are not the best, but do have their moments), acting, cinematography, and most importantly story. The story with M and Silva always interests me, as well as Bond's "resurrection" and completing his arc that started in CR (SP really didn't add to that arc all that much). I remember being completely thrilled with everything when I saw this at the theater for the first time; I think it used to be my #2 ranked Bond film!
I've seen a fair amount of detractors on this site against SF, but my opinion has never swayed on the film from loving it. It has consistently been one of my favorite Bond films ever, and I have a hard time seeing that change anytime now. No, it's not a perfect film, but it does so much right, and the flaws that are in it just don't make the dents that the ones in SP did for me. A few scenes could be a little eh (mostly at the MI6 base at the beginning and in the middle), and the subplot of an aging Bond seems to be sort of unnecessary (the relevancy/resurrection thing was enough), but I don't have many problems with it beyond that. Some say it's not Bondish enough, but I have never had that problem. It's traditional in all the ways it needs to be, and delivers a beautiful balance of old and new for the franchise. It was a wonderful celebration of the series' 50th anniversary, and for me, remains an absolute gem. Great stuff.
2018 Bondathon Ranking
1. Skyfall
2. Spectre
Got sidelined by Goldfinger after the Pts of SF though.
Even if Skyfall is a film I'd call "new content" I liked it. There are the typical horrendous attributes you'll find in today's cinema and that certainly will prevent it from ever going very high in my ranking. There is enough classic stuff in it though to get me into a forgiving mood.
At least that's how it went down with my first viewing of Skyfall.
Skyfall's pre-credits-sequence is pretty meh though.
If it wasn't for Judi Dench, it'll be one of the worst. The colors look washed out to brownish, and then it changes to cold blue when we are in London. The constant back and forth between the two is most jarring.
The score is way too serious without the usual melodic playful lightness that Arnold or Barry provided.
Not even going to comment on Bond being hit by a high velocity bullet and falling to his death. Water is like concrete if you fall like that.
Luckily I remember Skyfall getting much more better once the movie passes the 30 minute mark.
I'm going to give it another try later today.
After my first viewing it got to No 10 in my ranking.
As I said higher up is not the direction it will take probably.
are you going to comment on it in the thread? would be interested to know your thoughts on it here or elsewhere later.
I appreciate the interest. I will at least post most of my thoughts here like I did with SP and SF. Might add comments while watching on the other thread.
I didn't know what to expect going into QOS. SP significantly decreased in my estimation, while SF remained one of my favorites. As for Craig's sophomore entry? Well, this was the most I have enjoyed it in years. Up until SF, QOS was always a Top 10 entry on my list, but post-SF, it suffered a gradual decline until today. I think it will probably get a little boost on my list after this positive experience.
I'd rather get what's wrong with it out of the way. The editing can sometimes be distracting and far too quick, but this was less of an issue for me this time around than usual. The third quarter of the film can be kind of dull at times (from the sinkhole up until the climax). The gunbarrel is one of the series' weakest. The title song and credits are also not so great. You also need CR to understand some of it. Those are my biggest issues, and I'm probably missing a couple, but onto the good stuff.
Craig is excellent throughout most of it. I like his CR performance best still, but this one is about as enjoyable as his SF performance is for me, and both are top-tier Bond performances. It's too bad we only got two entries of him being younger than older. The PTS is a heck of an opener, and the excitement only successfully continues with the Mitchell chase. Camille and Strawberry are great Bond girls. Judi Dench, as always, is great as M; maybe my second-favorite performance from her after her one in SF. The opera sequence is a series highlight. The whole soundtrack is top-notch. The whole cast/characters are satisfactory or better. It still works better on its own than SP does, even if it does need CR a little. The climax and ending are really good, and satisfying in the context that I no longer have to wonder about what happens to Quantum. The film is super energetic and packed with action, but it still delivers on the exposition too. It's brisk, and I like that it's on the shorter side for Craig's era.
This is the most fun I have had with QOS in at least 6 years, so that's a big deal. Rather than staying close to SP in my estimation, it has leaped ahead of it considerably in this Bondathon. That being said, I have more issues with it than SF, and so it must stay lower than that. It's not quite at the level of being an all-time favorite again I don't think, but probably Top 15. As good a viewing as I could have hoped for from QOS this time.
2018 Bondathon Ranking
1. Skyfall
2. Quantum of Solace
3. Spectre
Having said all that, I dislike the song immensely and it was the worst Bond song for me until that last piece of slop.
@ClarkDevlin, but QoS literally does follow the death of Vesper, as a bridge from CR, and I think the whole movie moves in and out of that mourning subplot: Bond facing his feelings with Vesper, grieving her and all the rest. He actively goes through the major stages of grief in the movie, and it ends with acceptance and forgiveness, Bond finally able to see that Vesper was as much a victim as him. I think that point was beaten home as much as I'd like, as I don't like hamfisted and forced emotion. I got enough context and meaning from Bond stealing Vesper's photo, holding her necklace, and pretending to forget the name of the martini he christened after her than I would have from any super obvious incidents of Bond getting over her or thinking about her.
Because that's not Bond's character, and certainly not how Dan plays him. QoS was true to the Bond character and the man we know from CR because it only delivered his struggles to face Vesper's betrayal and his love for her subtly. Bond would never outright admit that he loved her or that she hurt him, as he sees it as embarrassing and weak. From the very start of the film he must act like she meant nothing to him so that M doesn't think less of him, or get him pulled off the Quantum job (which is why he stresses that he's not looking for revenge, that Vesper meant nothing). But as the film goes on we get peeks at how Bond really feels, that he is upset with how much he loved Vesper and feels hurt about what she did, not yet realizing that Yusef was playing her like a fiddle. When Mathis dies and urges Bond to forgive himself and Vesper, that's really the moment that I think clicks it in Bond's head of what he's been doing. He later takes Mathis' words to heart and realizes that no matter what he does, Vesper can't be brought back, and so he doesn't seek bloody revenge in her name because of that inherent futility. When he's able to get Yusef's location and find out the truth of Vesper's situation at the end, that she didn't betray him with conviction in her heart, and only love, Bond is able to accept what has happened and move on in the only way he can.
It's fitting that in the film Mathis is freed from all suspicion for being a traitor, as Bond makes the same quick judgement about Vesper that he did with Mathis without paying attention to the context of her final moments or his feelings for him. She wasn't a woman to do what she did without massive force and blackmail, but Bond's heart was hurt and like in the novel version of Casino Royale, instead of making a villain out of SMERSH he makes one out of Vesper to justify his coldness as he shies away from the utter embarrassment he feels. She had to be the enemy, because the genuine love he felt for her could never be revealed.
Then again, I'm glad QoS is the way it is. Even if some of the action sequences are a mess, its watchability is quite high in my book.
Back to the song: I believe it was set up that way to reflect Bond's emotions - which were again under the surface but not so readily displayed (it's there if you look closely in certain scenes). The narrative applies two ways: one is finding solace (which was achieved after the Yusef scene) and the other is following the clues which led to Spectre (or Quantum or whatever).
They tried something similar using the song to reflect emotion with Smith's durge in SP, but it was less successful imho.
This film has really grown on me; while Bond is in a good place at its conclusion, he is a very troubled, off balance man throughout the rest of the film. Only his training and focus on “the mission “ keeps him on track.
You don't see a lot of grieving, I see a lot of it, or at least as much as Bond would, and that's okay. I don't think scenes where Bond was more overt about his feelings would've helped the film, and actually harmed the final product for me, because that's just not who Bond is. He wouldn't share his feelings and he would repress everything he felt like mad, which is exactly what we see him trying to do in the movie. It becomes an interesting psychological study of James Bond in QoS to study what he says to someone and then what he does after; the words are false, the actions are true. In the same moment he tells M that Vesper was worthless, he steals her photo as a memento. On the plane with Mathis he pretends to forget about what he named the martini in CR ("The Vesper") while obviously drinking one because he's thinking about her.
Those little moments are sympathetic for me, and do bring me closer to Bond and his situation as I do pity him. He doesn't feel like he can show his true feelings because Vesper harmed his trust and showed him why he shouldn't ever open up again, so his attempts to lie in QoS are very much a manifestation of what Vesper taught his heart like he was one of Pavlov's dogs. From the betrayal on he was conditioned to keep everything inside, as the last time he opened up he got bitten. His psychological straits really hit me hard in QoS, and it's very satisfying at the end of the film to experience him finally seeing the clarity he so needed regarding Vesper all along.
So from my side I don't view the film as one with a "personal vendetta" or where Bond is "sweeping everyone away who got in his way." I actually really don't like it when people call QoS a revenge film of any kind, as it really isn't from Bond's perspective (from Camille's side, it is, but people only talk of Bond in that way for some reason). There isn't one decisive moment in the entire film where he skirts his orders to meet his own selfish goals, he's always job first, heart second as Bond always should be. His interest in Greene is as much for the man's dreaded scheme as anything else, and he only gets the location of Yusef at the end as a final parting gift, not as the driving reason he tracked Greene. Bond certainly thinks of Vesper, her connection to Quantum and White and all the rest during the film, how couldn't he, but I don't think he's driven by revenge.
Mathis shows him that forgiveness is the only way, and when he sees how unchanged Camille is after killing Medrano, I think Bond realizes with conclusive clarity that vengeance and blood on the hands is only a hollow and misguided exercise. It's why he spares Yusef just after saying goodbye to Camille after her own completed revenge mission, and actively chooses not to get any revenge himself even when M seemed prepared for him to kill Yusef, showing us that he doesn't agree with Camille's decision or doesn't share her feelings. Bond knew Vesper would hate to see him soiling himself by killing for her, and the lessons he learned about vengeance during the film made him see that the path of unbridled revenge was only a negative and destructive one. Instead of a movie about revenge, to me QoS is actually a film that teaches why revenge is never the answer (and gives very weighty evidence of why through Camille). It's actually fitting that the movie that comes after it features a character seeking the same empty and destructive revenge on M, once again showing Bond how dangerous that kind of behavior is.
I have always liked LTK. As a fan of 80’s action movies, this film a perfect mash up of my favourite franchise with the excesses of 80’s action. When I was growing up, I saw Rambo, Terminator, Lethal Weapon, Robocop (the second one traumatised me when the goons were dismembering Robocop), before I watched LTK. So, the violence in LTK seemed relatively tame, when I got round to watching it.
The fantastic Timothy Dalton on the violence to LTK, from “Martinis, Girls and Guns” by Martin Sterling and Gary Morecambe -
“I’m pleased the movie is more violent. That’s the world James Bond must live in and if you don’t like it, don’t go and see the film. We’re not not making movies for kids. We’re making movies for adults. It’s an adult fantasy that kids will enjoy.
...It’s a violent world Bond inhabits. Violence is the very nature of a Bond movie.
But whether it’s more or less violent is relatively specking. People getting fed to sharks, to the piranha fish, people getting set on fire, people being shot with harpoon guns, people getting shot with bullets, Bond killing people – they’re all classic elements of the genre”
I’m glad they made this film. I always applaud films that are willing to break out of the Bondian comfort zone. This is the most grounded Bond film since Majesty’s. This is the Bond series ying to the more campy, overt efforts of DAF/TMWTGG yang.
Royale’s Ranking, Bondathon October 2017
1. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
2. Casino Royale
3. Dr. No
4. Licence to Kill
5. Skyfall
6. Thunderball
7. Goldfinger
8. For Your Eyes Only
9. Tomorrow Never Dies
10. The World Is Not Enough
11. GoldenEye
12. Diamonds Are Forever
13. Live and Let Die
14. Die Another Day
15. The Man With The Golden Gun
Next up Quantum of Solace...
It probably makes for a damn good double bill. I'll have to try that sometime soon.
Now that I've read so much about QoS, I feel I should watch it again.
Already elevated it above LTK and AVTAK, but somehow it doesn't feel right.
Either I have to put it dead last again or elevate it above all the cheesy 80s Bond films.
You're welcome.