Never Say Never Again: Looking back 30 years on

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Comments

  • Posts: 6,396
    The main difference in NSNA is the "music" and the lame MI6 staff, other than that OP and NSNA are equally mediocre imo.

    They're not the only differences that set the two films apart. OP has far better production values (on a cheaper budget as well I might add) and more original and exciting set pieces than NSNA.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    The main difference in NSNA is the "music" and the lame MI6 staff, other than that OP and NSNA are equally mediocre imo.

    I do think that OP is the vastly superior film though.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    chrisisall wrote:
    I'm a Connery die hard and couldn't agree more. Sean should have stayed retired after DAF. In this one for the money too.
    I blame EON's Moonraker for making the idea of NSNA being either palatable or profitable possible.

    Please explain -.
    MR came out- HUGE box office despite being the least-Bond-like film in the series to that point. I think this gave them the idea that basically anything they put together would work as long as they hooked Connery into it.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited October 2013 Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    I'm a Connery die hard and couldn't agree more. Sean should have stayed retired after DAF. In this one for the money too.
    I blame EON's Moonraker for making the idea of NSNA being either palatable or profitable possible.

    Please explain -.
    MR came out- HUGE box office despite being the least-Bond-like film in the series to that point. I think this gave them the idea that basically anything they put together would work as long as they hooked Connery into it.

    Except in The Battle For Bond it clearly states that Paramount would only greenlight Warhead (as it was then) if Sean was on board but this was whilst TSWLM was still in pre-production. And Connery was location scouting with Mcclory in NY around 76/77 so was virtually on board by then.

    So your dates are somewhat out for blaming it on MR.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    So your dates are somewhat out for blaming it on MR.

    I'm saying that was a tipping point IMO. It basically said to them, don't worry about making it like a classic Bond movie. It took creative pressure off.

    Whatever, it's just an opinion. ;)
  • If I had to tally both films' merits, it'd look like this.

    NSNA

    * Better villains (both Brandeur and Carrera chew the scenery)
    * Better direction
    - Better cinematography from the legendary Douglas Slocombe
    * Wittier screenplay from Lorenzo Semple, Jnr.
    * Better song (it's let down by tacky production and a weak performance from Lani Hall - but it's a bloody good song at its core - after all it's Burt Bacharach and Alan & Marilyn Bergman)

    OP

    * More engaging central performance from Moore
    * Better score
    * Better love interests
    * Better PTS
    - Bettet finale

    That said and done, I still think I prefer OP. Somehow it's more than the sum of its parts.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 157
    The biggest problem in NSNA is the awful composer, Legrand, suggested by Connery himself.

    Michel Legrand is NOT an awful composer.
    Go listen to Les Parapluies de Cherbourg, Les Baie des anges, The Thomas Crown Affair, Summer of 42 and The Go Between, to name a few.

    Conney's favourite film composer, Jerry Goldsmith, was his original choice, but his schedule that year was already too full. Michel Legrand (who was the original composer on Robin and Marian before his score was thrown out) was his second choice.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 157
    Double post
  • Posts: 825
    Well I still & always liked. But that time in 1983, 30 years ago I never saw it in the Big Screen But couple years later in Video. It was great then Octorpussy the other Bond film at same with Roger Moor. At that time in 83 i only saw Superman 3 with the late Christopher Reeve. I got Never Say Never Againin DVD update version with extras. I always enjoy it. I watch them all 007 movies on DVD. Superman3,the 2 James Bond movies were the only movies what made 1983 spectacular that time was Clint Eastwood who reprise his Dirty Harry Role For 4th time in Sudden Impactwhich he directed & produced. George Lazenby who 1 time Bond was doing the Bond spoof in the Reunion TV series The Return of THe Man From UNCLE with Avengers & A View to kill star Patrick McNee. Now back to Never Say Never Again I know not official James Bond movie but it is a 007 movie with most Favourite Bond Sean Connery in it. If he done Seven Bond movies counting this he has Done 7 Bond movies. So that a fact. I'm happy with that.


  • This is fantastically interesting. Connery has such a good understanding of Bond. I always thought he hated the series and never gave a moment's thought about it but here he really exposes himself as a guy who understands it all well; a borderline fan perhaps.

    His summation on Moore' tenure is dead-on when he describes it as essentially being parody and Connery's review of FRWL is difficult to argue with. He even states he knew that the producers were heading down the parody track when he was doing DAF. He's much wiser and more insightful than his usual cantankerous self.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    It's not an official Bond film. It just isn't part of the Bond canon. It takes place in some other reality. Octopussy was a far better film than this rehash of Thunderball, IMO. And the title song NSNA is worse than that Madonna atrocity from DAD.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Glad to hear Barry enjoyed Octopussy :D

    Good interview, Sean seems quite ordinary.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    That interview was twenty times more interesting than the movie it's about...
  • Posts: 1,817
    Interesting that McClory didn't gave credit to Mrs Connery for the title. Further proof of the kind of bantha poodoo he is.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Barry Norman seemed to like the film. To be honest I'm a bit surprised given the poor action and 'TV-film' production values. Then again maybe it didn't look as bad in 1983.

    Can't really imagine Barry getting away with the dry "Felix Darker" remark these days.
  • From what I've read, NSNA did get good reviews at the time. I still quite like it. It's flawed but it has a witty script and some nice ideas. I think what really drags it down is the fact that it had to stick to Thunderball's story.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Barry Norman seemed to like the film. To be honest I'm a bit surprised given the poor action and 'TV-film' production values.

    It does look cheap, couldn't believe it when I found out OP had a lower budget. Have to disagree with you on the action though.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    From what I've read, NSNA did get good reviews at the time. I still quite like it. It's flawed but it has a witty script and some nice ideas. I think what really drags it down is the fact that it had to stick to Thunderball's story.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Barry Norman seemed to like the film. To be honest I'm a bit surprised given the poor action and 'TV-film' production values.

    It does look cheap, couldn't believe it when I found out OP had a lower budget. Have to disagree with you on the action though.

    Does it? Wow. That said I don't think OP looks like a particularly expensive film in itself. It does look better than NSNA though. NSNA seems quite amateurish.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited February 2014 Posts: 7,314
    Cubby was determined to make sure that every penny was put on screen. The apprentice wannabe couldn't beat the master at his own game.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I don't think OP looks like a particularly expensive film in itself. It does look better than NSNA though. NSNA seems quite amateurish.
    Which just does not compute when you realise that Douglas Slocombe (First 3 Raiders movies) was the DP. :O
  • Posts: 6,396
    Birdleson wrote:
    NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN has some strange, unexplainable properties. More than any of the official EON Bond films, I don't know how I'm going to react each time I watch it. Sometimes I come away thinking that it wasn't bad at all: I enjoy Connery's performance, I like the overall look of the movie and there are many strong elements that outshine all of the negative to create a fun viewing experience.. Other times the goofy humor, Bassinger, the essential cheapness, the horrible music, bland villain, the video game and about a dozen other things overwhelm me and I can't get past them. Sometimes I loathe the picture. Yet, rarely do I rank it below OCTOPUSSY (one of my least favorites in the franchise).

    Why in your opinion is NSNA better than OP?
  • "I'm at a loss as to why you are so against NSNA? Especially given that it clearly makes less of a mockery of the character than DAD does"

    Agree. This is coming from me who watched the first 4 Bond films when they were released first in 1960s, having read the novels before then. Nice to see Connery in NSNA, tolerating some excesses in that film. I think we should keep our conversations a bit more dignified. Each of us likes a different Bond film as the best. That is the beauty of being fans of Bond.

    For me, who watched Connery in 1962 in DN and in FRWL the next year, it took a long time to accept George Lazenby, although I knew that Peter Hunt was a very talented editor, the best director for that film and would have done even better if he had Connery. Nevertheless, I saw the film the very first day it was released because of Peter Hunt, but could not accept George Lazenby then. Over the nest few years, I realised how good a Bond George Lazenby would have become had he stayed.

    Let us take the good bits in every film and in this case NSNA.
  • Octopussy had an original story, great action and stunts and Moore gave a great performance. The opening pre-credit flight scene was a highlight, IMO. Yes, parts of the film were pretty silly (the title, the army of women etc.) but the tone of the film was light-hearted and I have no problem with that. Octopussy was maybe the perfect vehicle for Roger Moore to really shine, maybe even more so than any other film he made. It's a great film to watch on a lazy sunday or at a matinee.

    NSNA isn't bad, but if I would rank it below any of the EON films. It doesn't feel like a Bond film. Connery is in it and he plays "James Bond," but it's not a Bond film.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    OP is perhaps just as good or bad as this one, but the other film it is natural to compare it to, TB, is infinitely better in every way.
  • OP is perhaps just as good or bad as this one, but the other film it is natural to compare it to, TB, is infinitely better in every way.

    I guess I'm in a super minority here, I actually enjoy NSNA over TB. And I rank Octopussy as one of the best in the series.

  • Posts: 7,653
    I enjoy both and remember the joy of seeing TWO James Bond movies with the then best 007 performers. WIN WIN situation.
  • I find it kinda funny that in the above interview Connery talks about his Bond differentiating itself from Moore by not being a parody of itself and citing FRWL yet NSNA ended up being one of Connery's most OTT Bond films. I would even argue that for the most part Octopussy takes itself more seriously than NSNA. There are some genuinely tense scenes in the film.

    I wonder if Connery, even at this point, even liked NSNA. I read that the production of the movie was a disaster.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    He makes it pretty clear in the interview that he didnt particularly enjoy the experience. And that clip with Bond and Fatima Blush is a poor mans Goldeneye. There's an awkwardness between both the pair and not just one of the actors, you can tell.

    I'm watching DAF at the moment and you know what? I don't care much for Sean in it. Simply put, I don't believe he is James Bond like I did in the first few films. Give me Brosnan in Goldeneye anyday over Sean in Diamonds or NSNA - he may have been nervous but at least he was interested, keen and still reasonably good shape if a bit on the light side.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Sadly, I must agree @BAIN123.

    Back in '83 I was just so happy to see him back it never really hit me how BAD NSNA was. Or how bad he was in it.

    Before NSNA he made Outland. After he made Highlander. He was absolutely stellar in BOTH. I think he regretted every minute of making NSNA.
    At the very least he seemed to be having fun poking fun at the franchise in DAF.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    There's one good line in DAF that did make me smile. It's when he says "sorry about that old boy" to the rat.

    Regarding NSNA he doesn't bother hiding his accent:

    "What's the shtory on how the damn things were shtolen"
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    BAIN123 wrote:
    There's one good line in DAF that did make me smile. It's when he says "sorry about that old boy" to the rat.
    Funniest moment.

    Like I said before, DAF is the best Bond spoof ever.
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