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Live And Let Die vs Tomorrow Never Dies - By the Elements

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  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Right then. This match pits, in my opinion, the two funniest Bond films one against the other, as well as two the most fantastic Bond films. Should be interesting.

    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: DAF
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: DAF
    Settings: DAF
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: MR
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: MR
    Settings: MR
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,355
    PTS: Moonraker
    Title Track: Diamonds Are Forever
    Title Credits: Diamonds Are Forever
    Main Villain: Moonraker
    Main Bond Girl: Diamonds Are Forever
    Overall Plot: Moonraker
    Dialogue: Diamonds Are Forever
    Score: Diamonds Are Forever
    Settings: Diamonds Are Forever
    Action: Moonraker
    Humor: Diamonds Are Forever
    Cinematography: Moonraker
    Benign Bizarre: Diamonds Are Forever
    Suspense: Moonraker
    Minor Characters: Diamonds Are Forever
    Glamor: Moonraker
    Henchmen: Diamonds Are Forever
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: DAF
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: DAF
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: DAF
    Settings: DAF
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: DAF
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: DAF
    Henchmen: DAF

    DAF runs away with it at 13-4.
  • Zorin61Zorin61
    Posts: 418
    PTS: Moonraker
    Title Track: Diamonds Are Forever (although i do love Moonraker aswell)
    Title Credits: Moonraker
    Main Villain: Moonraker
    Main Bond Girl: Diamonds Are Forever
    Overall Plot: Moonraker
    Dialogue: Diamonds Are Forever
    Score: Moonraker
    Settings: Moonraker
    Action: Moonraker
    Humour: Diamonds Are Forever
    Cinematography: Moonraker
    Benign Bizarre: Diamonds Are Forever
    Suspense: Moonraker
    Minor Characters: Diamonds Are Forever
    Glamour: Moonraker
    Henchmen: Diamonds Are Forever
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2013 Posts: 16,351
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: MR
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: MR
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: MR
    Settings: MR
    Action: MR
    Humor: MR
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    PTS: DAF - it's just more "fun" for my tastes, plus that line from Connery
    Title Track: MR - though arguably my 2 favorite themes of the series. I find Bassey's MR performance just as stunning as her other 2 Bond themes
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: DAF - I personally really enjoy Charles Gray's witty, aristocratic interpretation of Blofeld: it's a good match for Bond
    Main Bond Girl: DAF - Jill St. John just has more personality than Lois
    Overall Plot: DAF
    Dialogue: DAF - So many great one liners throughout: "Provided the collars and cuffs match"
    Score: DAF - another tough one: both are gorgeous: slight edge to DAF for it's eeriness, especially Kidd and Wint cue
    Settings: DAF - sure MR is more exotic, but vintage Vegas is just more intriguing and bizarre to me
    Action: DAF - bloopers and moon buggies aside, DAF's action is lean and not over the top, for which MR has a bit too much action
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF - the king of this category in fact
    Suspense: DAF
    Minor Characters: DAF - "checking radiation shields"
    Glamor: DAF
    Henchmen: DAF
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    Wow, the two worst outside of DAD. Here goes...


    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: DAF
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: MR
    Score: DAF
    Settings: DAF
    Action: MR
    Humor: MR
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: DAF
    Henchmen: MR

    9-8 for MR. Really, both films are crap though. It literally came down in most categories to which film sucked less.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: DAF
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: DAF
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: DAF
    Settings: MR
    Action: DAF
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: DAF
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: DAF
    Henchmen: DAF
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    PTS: DAF
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: DAF
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: DAF
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: DAF
    Settings: MR
    Action: DAF
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: DAF
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: DAF
    Henchmen: DAF
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Pre titles sequence - Moonraker (strangely enough. Some people picked Diamonds are Forever as a better opening than Moonraker FFS !)

    Title track (Bassey is no favorite, but Moonraker wins this one)

    Title Credits - Diamonds are Forever

    Main Villain - (Hugo Drax), Moonraker

    Main Bond Girl - (another "tough" choice. Jill St John wins all day long over the awful Lois Chiles), so Diamonds are Forever is a clear winner

    Overall plot - (both ridiculous) but, Moonraker

    Dialogue - Moonraker (Michael Lonsdale can't be beaten)

    Score - Moonraker (probably the best in the entire series)

    Settings - (Italy, Brazil, California, Outer Space etc, you do the math) - Moonraker is a clear winner

    Action - Moonraker, by a very long distance. It's an almost no contest

    Humor - Moonraker

    Cinematography - Moonraker

    Benign Bizarre - Diamonds are Forever

    Suspense - Moonraker

    Minor characters - Not sure about this one. Went with Diamonds are Forever

    Glamor - Moonraker. Another no contest

    Henchmen - Diamonds are Forever, it wins for once by a very clear distance


    Above all else, Moonraker still holds position in my top five, while Diamonds are Forever languishes in the bottom five, so no surprise Moore's 1979 entry got most of the votes this time around
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: MR
    Settings: MR
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    PTS: Moonraker
    Title Track: Diamonds Are Forever
    Title Credits: Diamonds Are Forever
    Main Villain: Moonraker
    Main Bond Girl: Moonraker (I prefer Jill St. John as an actress, but nothing can excuse Tiffany Case's character)
    Overall Plot: Diamonds Are Forever
    Dialogue: Diamonds Are Forever
    Score: Moonraker
    Settings: Moonraker
    Action: Diamonds Are Forever (for not having the "Bondola" travesty).
    Humor: Diamonds Are Forever,
    Cinematography: Moonraker
    Benign Bizarre: Diamonds Are Forever, the epitome of the Benign Bizarre surely Khanners?
    Suspense: Moonraker
    Minor Characters: Diamonds Are Forever Klaus Hergesheimer baby!
    Glamor: Moonraker
    Henchmen: Diamonds Are Forever
  • RogertheclownRogertheclown
    Posts: 183
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: MR
    Score: MR
    Settings: MR
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF

    11-6 win for Moonraker
  • minorMajor9thminorMajor9th
    Posts: 157
    PTS: MR
    Title Track: DAF
    Title Credits: MR
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: DAF
    Overall Plot: MR
    Dialogue: DAF
    Score: DAF
    Settings: MR
    Action: MR
    Humor: DAF
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: DAF
    Suspense: MR
    Minor Characters: DAF
    Glamor: MR
    Henchmen: DAF
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Well, this was certainly the closest battle of the bunch, so far. DAF wins in categories 9-8 and in total points, 134-121. It doesn't get much closer than that!

    Next up will be a battle of titans, as FRWL and OHMSS square off.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: OHMSS
    Henchmen: FRWL
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DAF vs. MR was close, but FRWL vs. OHMSS could be even closer. Let us see.

    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track (Barry's instrumental in OHMSS): OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain (Rosa Klebb in FRWL): OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Henchmen (Red Grant in FRWL, Irma Bunt in OHMSS): OHMSS
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track (Barry's instrumental in OHMSS): OHMSS
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain (Rosa Klebb in FRWL): OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Henchmen (Red Grant in FRWL, Irma Bunt in OHMSS): FRWL

    OHMSS FTW
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: FRWL
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: OHMSS
    Henchmen: FRWL
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    edited November 2013 Posts: 1,497
    What was the justification for considering Rosa Klebb the main villain in FRWL? I consider Red Grant the main villain, since the main (verbal and physical) showdown is with Grant. If we consider Grant the main villain, then I would certainly award FRWL the win in this category.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    JBFan626 wrote:
    What was the justification for considering Rosa Klebb the main villain in FRWL? I consider Red Grant the main villain, since the main (verbal and physical) showdown is with Grant. If we consider Grant the main villain, then I would certainly award FRWL the win in this category.

    The main villain is usually the brains rather than the brawn. It was Klebb, Blofeld and Kronstein who created SPECTRE's plan and oversaw its instigation. Grant was simply the gifted goon at the sharp end of the spear.

  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    PTS: FRWL
    Title Track (Barry's instrumental in OHMSS): OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain (Rosa Klebb in FRWL): FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: FRWL
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamor: OHMSS
    Henchmen (Red Grant in FRWL, Irma Bunt in OHMSS): FRWL
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited November 2013 Posts: 15,124
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    What was the justification for considering Rosa Klebb the main villain in FRWL? I consider Red Grant the main villain, since the main (verbal and physical) showdown is with Grant. If we consider Grant the main villain, then I would certainly award FRWL the win in this category.

    The main villain is usually the brains rather than the brawn. It was Klebb, Blofeld and Kronstein who created SPECTRE's plan and oversaw its instigation. Grant was simply the gifted goon at the sharp end of the spear.

    But Grant is the one most personally involved, so to speak, in the cat and mouse game against Bond. He is the one following him, helping him, then preying over him and finally confronting him. He also has way more interaction with him than Klebb. In FRWL, I would say that the henchman is the main villain, or at least that Grant shares equal importance with Rosa Klebb. And this is one of the reasons I find FRWL so brilliant and the best Bond movie (not my favourite, mind you, but the best).
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    As Grant is clearly a subordinate to Klebb, by definition that makes him the henchman and her the main villain.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited November 2013 Posts: 15,124
    WillyGalore wrote:
    As Grant is clearly a subordinate to Klebb, by definition that makes him the henchman and her the main villain.

    Not by definition. There is a difference between the hierarchy, the function and the importance. The Jackal in The Day of the Jackal is a gun for hire, not the head of the organization wanting to assassinate de Gaulle. He is still the main villain. I could give a classic example: in The Barber of Seville, Figaro is the main character, yet the help of who would normally be the hero of the play. In other words, the henchman can be the main villain.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    This will be quite unfair despite both being among the best ever Bond films.

    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: OHMSS - If the faceless Blofeld were FRWL's main villain, this would be a different result.
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: OHMSS
    Henchmen: FRWL

    14-3 for OHMSS. Yes it's the better film but these are both masterpieces. I'm shocked.
  • Zorin61Zorin61
    edited November 2013 Posts: 418
    PTS: FRWL
    Title Track: (Barry instrumental in OHMSS) - OHMSS
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Henchmen: FRWL
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Henchmen: FRWL (Hard to beat Red Grant).

    9-8, FRWL wins.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2013 Posts: 12,480
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: FRWL
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamor: FRWL
    Henchmen: FRWL

    I wish FRWL had better music.
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