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No personal insults made, some claims were made that untruths were stated, those claims were shown to be truth.
That said PK is very knowledgable on the subject Ian Fleming, but in certain matters he is somewhat biased.
I'm not sure that demonstrating that anti-racists are boring too is a good tactic if you want to prove racism and anti-racism are very different....
He has to deal with a Female Producer who casted a Black Moneypenny for the coming years, believe me, it's hurting him more than what you can do :)
That this thread is still open might also tell us something.
What would you look for, a written confession? You won't find such, more knowledgable Fleming fans, one of them derided right here by a most unsavoury customer, have been over his life and works. The closest one may hope to get to the heart of the matter is his own work in comparison with that of his contemporaries and the definition of racism as given a few pages back. It's not a stretch to claim both Bond and Fleming would agree to some extent with that definition, as would have a large part of their world. So yes, up to a point guilty of mild racism IMO. Needn't keep us from reading and enjoying Fleming. Unreflecting? Yes and no, you can find lots of deep reflection in the books and Fleming's interviews are also much more interesting than one would think at first. Unreflective in the sense that Fleming would not have questioned such beliefs and thought there was nothing wrong with it, not in a general sense.
Propaganda? I leave that to fascists such as yourself who must resort to it because fact and evidence do terrible violence to your positions. My lodestar is truth. And if the truth hurts you pansified Leftists, so be it. Enduring slings and arrows is a small sacrifice for doing battle with the forces of darkness, which are disemboweling the greatest civilization the world has ever known.
It's not a suspicion; it's the truth. East Asians, as well as Ashkenazi Jews score on average several points higher than whites on all intelligence tests, and all of the above score considerably higher than blacks. Hispanics tend to fall somewhere between whites and blacks. I'm now aware of where Arabic peoples fall, although I suspect they're at roughly the same level as Hispanics.
I stand behind every word of that.
Ah, the fascistic censor strikes again. You Leftists have a near monopoly on the information society and you wish to keep it that way to prevent the truth from "scarring" impressionable youngsters. How thoughtful of you!
Well, kiddos out there in Bond land, there are a few things you should know that you won't learn in school and you won't hear from the BBC. And the best thing I can tell you is to cultivate a powerful BS detector. When something the BBC or your teachers say smells funny, that's because what they are peddling is lies. So question authority. Subvert the establishment. Because this establishment is quickly destroying the society in which you live. And because you are young, you will bear the brunt of the madness your authorities are sowing unless you do everything in your power to rebel. Do it now, before it is too late.
Don't see why you wouldn't be, you've done nothing wrong. Stick around, it's a cool site.
This.
Actually, that's irrelevant. That said, it is Leftists who invented identity politics. It would only be fair that their guns are turned against them.
There's nothing nutty about my views. As I noted above, until fairly recently, they were commonplace. Alas, the Western world has drifted so far into the estuary of Leftist insanity that the sane, truthful and commonsensical seem bizarre.
As for my personality, I am the antithesis of high strung. And I possess no more hate--which is a normal human emotion, by the by--than the average person. I certainly do confess to being disgruntled, however. It is an unfortunate consequence of watching a civilization commit suicide.
It's one thing to tell me that I'm automatically less intelligent than you and all the rest of it over the internet but I'd bet you wouldn't dare say any of this to a black guy you met on the street. Scratch that, we'd never meet on the street, you'd cross the road rather than walk past me because I'm under 40, I might commit a violent crime against you!
PK, how far can you go into your private Never Never Land? If I really was some kind of government agent out to silence you, black gay Muslim commie, young and after your wife, or what fears keep you up at night, well then you'd just have disappeared long ago, wouldn't you? You don't seriously think the kind of omnipotent secret world government you are afraid of would waste time playing games with you?
You should really look for professional help.
The truth is this is a Bond site and I'm not prepared to see this thread and least of all this community and site hijacked by such disruptive elements who have their own agenda and axe to grind, much at odds with the tenets this community is built upon. If you want political discussions that have nothing whatever to do with any aspect of James Bond, then please do us all a favour and post about this in the General Discussion section and argue away at your dubious political points until your hearts' content (or the moderator's padlock) or better still go to one of the myriad discussion forums on politics, current affairs and conspiracy theories. I'm all for political discussion and am of the right myself, but this thread is surely not the place for irrelevant political discussion.
15/11/13 EDIT: It's time that I spoke out. I have finally been banned from Bond and Beyond. Thought that this post would do the trick. I had finally resigned on 1 November 2013 but this is the icing on the cake for me. I made a terrible lack of judgement in recruiting for that site. I was deliberately thrown to the wolves and discarded as soon as my work was done by all and sundry, except Largo's Shark who I assume has finally banned me this time. The scales have fallen off my eyes. MI6 Community is the only James Bond forum to treat its members with any dignity and I've been on them all so you can take my word for that. Avoid Bond and Beyond like the plague and don't ever even consider doing their dirty work for them; take it from me that it's a very, very thankless task. Posted below is my ban message:
"You have been banned from this forum.
Until 19/01/2038
For the reason : Slagginng off BaB on MI6 and sticking around like a bad itch"
Heh heh. Who says I don't educate? But at any rate, I don't interject my views where they don't belong. This thread, however, lends itself to the subject and I'm not about to cede the forum to Leftist liars and suppressors of truth.
As for you personally, you may be the most intelligent person on earth. Hell, the five greatest geniuses on the planet could conceivably be black. We are talking about averages and generalities here, not specific instances or exceptions to the rule.
I live in the US, where the forces of suppression are not quite as advanced as they are in Old Europe. What's more, I'm operating under an assumed name. There is a bit of protection in that, although admittedly, not much. That said, people (almost all of them white) in Europe are routinely thrown in the hoosegow for "inciting racial hatred," which can be as innocuous as singing "Kungfu Fighting" when an umbrageous Oriental happens to stroll by, overhear, and report it as "hate speech."
Nope, I'm the rational one here. You are either delusional or in lockstep with the fascists. If the former, it is you who should seek counseling. If the latter, you should be ashamed.
That said, maybe those who are painting @PerilaguKhan with the typical broad brush that is PC nowadays because he gave some statistics, are rushing to conclusions that he is a racist. I'm a fairly liberal person who subscribes to neither liberal nor conservative views but rather my own, and it's my view that he has denied being racist- something real racists usually don't deny- and that's good enough for me until I hear otherwise. I read all his posts and know him a long time from around here and he gets the benefit of the doubt from me over someone new, that's for sure.
The facts are that if someone says anything in defense of a particular view that isn't PC, someone who disagrees nearly without fail makes an accusation of the worst kind. An example of this broad brush was something I recently read on the internet regarding gay marriage. Someone said "Look, I'm not against gay couples getting married and having the same rights as traditional couples, but I would prefer the term "marriage" be reserved for traditional couples". This person was swarmed with people who accused the poster (gender unknown) of having hidden agendas and right wing leanings because they were perceived to disagree with the entire concept, when they clearly did not state that.
Ask yourself this. Why are white people who speak up for an injustice against their race auto tagged as racists, while an minority who spouts the same rhetoric is called an "activist"? Earlier I presented my view that the media is much faster to cover and present statements of condemnation against white on minority crime and brand it as a racist action, such as in the Martin/Zimmerman case which carried on for weeks on end, but the case of "polar bear hunting" was quickly swept under the rug. I say that reverse racism is happening against whites. Does that make ME a racist for pointing that out because I am white and spoke in favor of equal and fair treatment of white people being victimized? Where are the statements carried by the media of those who would condemn acts like "polar bear hunting" as racist? Does anyone want to accuse ME of having a white robe and pointy hat in my closet like some of you are practically accusing Khan of having?
And don't be afraid of Bond becoming a leftist icon, it'll take quite some time before he swaps his Aston Martin for a bicycle :)
So, the broad truth is that different races score differently on IQ tests, but IQ tests cannot reveal the broad truth concerning intelligence.
And btw, some of the stupidest people I know are highly intelligent, so there's that too.
:))
Oui Suivez mon ami, just because I make French jokes like the rest of the Germanic tribes, doesn't mean a French person won't get a fair chance with me like anyone else. And I do like your women and your culinary contributions for sure :)
@harkaway- you can spin it however you like, for all I know you think I am a racist too, but I don't see the same "clear evidence" you do even in those statements.
In fact it's de rigeur for the generally not-terribly-bright pc crowd. PC provides a nice cocoon. It's first and foremost about conforming. About identifying the correct thought, spewing it, and villifying anyone that doesn't conform. Comfy.
One of the most refreshing traits of Fleming's writing though is that he was an iconoclast. The opposite of pc, an independant provocative thinker.
I would suggest that if Fleming were to deign to indulge a tipple with any of us, first on his list, maybe only on his list, would be the learned and free-speaking Dr. Khan.
Fleming for example wrote a hilarious passage in TB about women drivers. Those of us that have actually read Fleming, know exactly what I am talking about. He could write the same piece today. Not a lot as changed IMHO of course, and I do drive regularly. Another timeless observation that persists through the centuries, is that when some maniac nearly runs you off the road, it's generally a young guy, living out his Sebastien Vettel fantasy. Although it could also be a Fiona Volpe or Xenia Onatopp, but more likely a young guy. Ageist! Ageist! Ageist!
Full disclosure. I drove like a ape when I was 18 too. Seems to go with the territory.
Such Fleming passages though automatically set off the pant-wetters pc radar. Sexist, sexist, sexist!!! or as our old friend CJB might have said, OMG he's a saxist, a saxist!!! Fleming in this instance is neither sexist nor saxist, he's merely being provocative, as most stand-up comedians are prone to do as well. They look at life, poke prod and provoke. Some of Flemings most outrageous provocative passages were also his funniest.
I maintain absolutely that Fleming did not have a racist bone in his body. He loved life, he loved people. He loved the world. He lived large. He had issues no doubt, but hating persons of different skin colours wasn't one of them.
Off soapbox.
Actually @SirHenry, Fleming might invite your presence at the table with Khan and himself. He may indulge your enthusiastic views on rock music, and then use them as fodder for a scathing indictment of how the devils's music was corrupting the youth of America. :P
I agree with this 1000% percent. I never read or heard an interview with Fleming that made me question his motives like Boyd has. It is very possible to create a fictional character with views that don't match your own, that may appeal to someone with those views.
If it were the 1980's and I showed up at a live Fleming's door, he would have taken one look, called me a "dirty hippie", and immediately ordered me to leave the premises :))
@harkaway, what business do you have posting filth like this on my beloved forum?
Seriously though, this is a James Bond forum and here we are accusing members of being racists and whatnot. @Perilagu_Khan is instantly the wiser of you both as he, at least, doesn't reach that low point.
Clearly some participants on this thread are unable to keep this discussion about Ian Fleming going without going godzilla on each other's opinions, or without dropping suspicious suggestions about other members' history on other forums.
As such, this has become a personal conflict of political opinions, the exact opposite of what this forum represents. We owe this forum to Ian Fleming, Cubby Broccoli and @JamesPage, and I'll be damned if I let their efforts be covered in horse bugger by such nonsense.
This thread started off with an interesting topic. I has sadly grown into a repugnant puddle of ****. Here's me taking out the trash: LOCKED!