Yale Professor Skyfall Theory

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Comments

  • I'm sure this professor knows his stuff when it comes to legal theory. This does not, however, make his opinions on the James Bond series sacrosanct. I'd trust any of you (except the trolls, of course) over this guy.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I'm sure this professor knows his stuff when it comes to legal theory. This does not, however, make his opinions on the James Bond series sacrosanct. I'd trust any of you (except the trolls, of course) over this guy.

    That's what I was saying: him being a professor of law at Yale doesn't add any credibility to his statement whatsoever.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I'm sure this professor knows his stuff when it comes to legal theory. This does not, however, make his opinions on the James Bond series sacrosanct. I'd trust any of you (except the trolls, of course) over this guy.

    That's what I was saying: him being a professor of law at Yale doesn't add any credibility to his statement whatsoever.

    Exactly. This article is a huge appeal to authority. That is, if the guy really wrote it. I can easily write something ludicrous and say it comes from some respected scholar, that does not mean it is true. He might really have said it, but so far I remain skeptical.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 1,497
    Getting back to the question of whether or not an M - son relationship is plausible, I still think it could be without Bond "playing second chair". Remember, for Bond it's always about the mission, whether it be professional (most Bond stories) or personal (LTK, QOS, and the end of SF). Bond is the "blunt instrument" who moves the action along, but the core of the story isn't always necessarily about Bond. Take LTK, for example, the catalyst of the story is revenge for Felix. It's also a personal story that deals specifically with Felix's family. Like LTK, it could have been plausible to have a similar central story construct around M's past as it relates to her family. We know very little about M's personal life, so it could interesting to tie in a family member, such as an estranged son. Again we could have a personal mission for Bond to save M, who has been very close to him in the past 2 films.

    On the contrary, however, I will say that the professor's theory is a stretch in that if Silva was a former MI6 agent, it would seem to be quite a conflict of interest to have a her son working for her. But it's all fictional, so anythings possible.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Very interesting theory nad one I hope is actually on the money. I actually thought this at the time. The line " Mommy's been very bad" can't have just been a throwaway line. Makes Skyfall even better IMO with more resonance and emotional agendas than ever before. PS Bring back Blofeld! (but not as Bond's missing father!)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote:
    The Doctor's James Bond's companions.
    DN: Felix, Quarrel, Pussfella
    FRWL: Kerim Bey
    GF: Felix
    TB: Felix, Pender
    YOLT: Tiger, Aki, Kissy
    OHMSS: Campbell, Draco
    DAF: Felix
    LALD: Felix, Quarrel Jr.
    TMWTGG: Lt. Hip, Goodnight
    TSWLM: Anya, Captain Carter
    MR: Holly
    FYEO: Luigi, Columbo
    OP: VeeJay, Q
    AVTAK: Tibbet, Chuck Lee
    TLD: Saunders, Felix
    LTK: Pam, Q, Sharky, Felix
    GE: Jack Wade, Valentin
    TND: Jack Wade, Wai Lin
    TWINE: Valentin, Jones
    DAD: Jinx, Raoul, Mr. Chang
    CR: Mathis
    QOS: Mathis, FIelds, Camille
    SF: Q, Eve, Mallory, Kincade, M, Tanner.

    The thing is though that with the exception of perhaps Kerim none of the above have any sort of story arcs like M does in SF.

    She has to deal with making the call to leave Ronson to die, killing Bond, facing the setting of the sun on her career, realising that shit was going down that she was responsible for somewhere in her past, going with instinct against her better judgement in sending Bond back into the field again, facing Silva and the fact that her betrayal of him caused all this, facing the select committee and defending her and the services actions and ultimately facing death to stop the killing of more innocents.

    To equate her role as being somehow no different to Lieutenant Hip is nonsensical (although I'm sure he harbours a fair bit of guilt for leaving Bond and driving off, being generally shite and introducing a pair of kung fu kicking schoolgirls into the series).

    M in SF is one of the main characters, and there is surely a case that could be argued that she is the main character.

    The characters above are mere sidekicks and very few of them have any serious impact on the plot (Felix in LTK is the obvious exception but even then he is pretty much a passive Macguffin that generates the plot rather than playing any active role in it).

    In SF M is the plot.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    The thing is though that with the exception of perhaps Kerim none of the above have any sort of story arcs like M does in SF.

    She has to deal with making the call to leave Ronson to die, killing Bond, facing the setting of the sun on her career, realising that shit was going down that she was responsible for somewhere in her past, going with instinct against her better judgement in sending Bond back into the field again, facing Silva and the fact that her betrayal of him caused all this, facing the select committee and defending her and the services actions and ultimately facing death to stop the killing of more innocents.

    To equate her role as being somehow no different to Lieutenant Hip is nonsensical (although I'm sure he harbours a fair bit of guilt for leaving Bond and driving off, being generally shite and introducing a pair of kung fu kicking schoolgirls into the series).

    M in SF is one of the main characters, and there is surely a case that could be argued that she is the main character.

    The characters above are mere sidekicks and very few of them have any serious impact on the plot (Felix in LTK is the obvious exception but even then he is pretty much a passive Macguffin that generates the plot rather than playing any active role in it).

    In SF M is the plot.

    And? It was still an entertaining flick.
  • TrishTrish Banned
    Posts: 20
    I'm a bit confused. If M stands for Mother then how come M was a man in previous films?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Trish wrote:
    I'm a bit confused. If M stands for Mother then how come M was a man in previous films?

    ...

    ...

    M doesn't stand for mother.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Ok for those who thinks this pseudo theory makes sense: what evidence there is to support it? If any...
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Very interesting theory nad one I hope is actually on the money. I actually thought this at the time. The line " Mommy's been very bad" can't have just been a throwaway line. Makes Skyfall even better IMO with more resonance and emotional agendas than ever before. PS Bring back Blofeld! (but not as Bond's missing father!)

    I'm sorry but it is not interesting in the slightest. It's complete crap and rivals the "codename" for the title of most ludicrous theory ever.

    It really is worrying when people actually believe this kind of total rubbish. No doubt the Professor can tell us who really was behind the JFK hit, how the Moon landing was faked and why there are aliens living in my airing cupboard(!)
  • Posts: 15,117
    I wonder how can people can read so much from a single throw away line that was meant to be sarcastic and contemptuous and said by a deranged person. Or read so little: the line says a lot about Silva, about how his twisted.mind sees things. But nowhere there is evidence that it is literal!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    That theory has now spread throughout the Internet, being posted on film news sites, and some people are going as far as saying that he "might have found a brilliant easter egg in SF" or "he should be hired to work on the next Bond film." It really doesn't take a die hard fan to realize how wrong that theory is.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    Creasy47 wrote:
    That theory has now spread throughout the Internet, being posted on film news sites, and some people are going as far as saying that he "might have found a brilliant easter egg in SF" or "he should be hired to work on the next Bond film." It really doesn't take a die hard fan to realize how wrong that theory is.

    As Charles Spurgeon said, “A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on.”
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 40,968
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    That theory has now spread throughout the Internet, being posted on film news sites, and some people are going as far as saying that he "might have found a brilliant easter egg in SF" or "he should be hired to work on the next Bond film." It really doesn't take a die hard fan to realize how wrong that theory is.

    As Charles Spurgeon said, “A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on.”

    Just like Bond refusing to drink vodka martinis anymore because he was going to have Heineken in SF. Remember when he totally didn't drink a single martini whatsoever throughout the whole movie, and at the end, he looks at M and states "With pleasure...as long as there aren't martinis involved."
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    That theory has now spread throughout the Internet, being posted on film news sites, and some people are going as far as saying that he "might have found a brilliant easter egg in SF" or "he should be hired to work on the next Bond film." It really doesn't take a die hard fan to realize how wrong that theory is.

    As Charles Spurgeon said, “A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on.”

    Just like Bond refusing to drink vodka martinis anymore because he was going to have Heineken in SF. Remember when he totally didn't drink a single martini whatsoever throughout the whole movie, and at the end, he looks at M and states "With pleasure...as long as there aren't martinis involved."

    Well, he already abandoned "Shaken, not stirred," for good in Casino Royale, so it's not much of leap from there.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Just like Roger Moore abandoned "Shaken, not stirred".
  • Posts: 15,117
    And instead we have the original martini recipe from the novel in CR. I really don't see the problem with Bond not saying shaken not stirred.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ok for those who thinks this pseudo theory makes sense: what evidence there is to support it? If any...
    I'm not claiming this theory has to be taken at face value, but with John Logan at the script's commands, I wouldn't be surprised to see hidden family secrets hinted everywhere for the sake of it - but as Bond is not SF, at least we should avoid "brothers" created by cloning :) It would be interesting to see if Logan is the one who introduced the Think On Your Sins line, or the Mommy line.
    Anyway, a movie written by John Logan, about someone somehow an "agent", somehow betrayed by his mother, who wants to come back in town to destroy everything, there was at least one in 2012. There even was Ralph Fiennes in it too :) [Coriolanus]



  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2013 Posts: 18,271
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just like Roger Moore abandoned "Shaken, not stirred".

    Yes, the other "blond Bond" too, kind of. "Shaken, not stirred" wasn't used very much in the novels by Fleming anyhow though it did first feature in Dr. No (1958), the first novel to be filmed by Eon Productions. The Bond films therefore made it a catchphrase from Dr. No on.
  • Posts: 645
    This is really interesting (and relieving) to hear the Mi6community's thoughts on this, being that many of you are not from the US. Here in America, I have read several articles and comments about this theory and haven't heard much backlash at all. It's good to hear where it truly stands. I respect the majority of your opinions on this site.

    My initial reactions where, hmm, interesting, then I wondered why they would make this such a secret... then wondering why I hadn't heard this before until now... then coming to the conclusion that he was stretching quite a bit of facts to prove his theory. So I posted here, and I'm glad I did.

    I think it holds up as a theory in a few ways, but just seems like something a Bond film wouldn't do. Perhaps this Yale professor is in need of some much needed therapy himself to be connecting the dots in such a way... or maybe he just wanted to be internet famous for a few days.
  • Posts: 15,117
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    jolearon wrote:
    This is really interesting (and relieving) to hear the Mi6community's thoughts on this, being that many of you are not from the US. Here in America, I have read several articles and comments about this theory and haven't heard much backlash at all. It's good to hear where it truly stands. I respect the majority of your opinions on this site.
    It's no wonder that they have portrayed the majority of Felix Leiters as idiots. Let it be known that that there are many Americans who don't share this viewpoint.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.

    I still think it is a case of "picture of the doctor": he may never have uttered it, someone just used his name to back up a stupid claim. Even if he did, it is still a "picture of the doctor" as his title does not make his claim more valuable.
  • And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film.
    There's also the slight possibility of John Logan having fun for the sake of it. It won't be the first time in fiction a weird eastern egg is hinted at just so that some readers who will spot it, will have fun (and the eastern egg is never exploited after). Sometimes it's about personal life private jokes, sometimes it's about well known celerities, sometimes it's about sexual innuendos between alpha male heroes, sometimes it's about dead characters who may not be really dead, etc, etc. In some cases the author, when asked about, leaves the door open to any possibilities.


  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.

    Well said. Wise words from the Wizard, as always. Time to get the padlock out, methinks. Enough of this crap theory.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.

    Well said. Wise words from the Wizard, as always. Time to get the padlock out, methinks. Enough of this crap theory.

    But I think @Suivez_ce_parachute has a good point though. A good screenplay writer knows how to be subversive and offer little clues in the story that can be interpreted in different ways. Who knows if the theory actually is true, but it's all just for fun. I think that's all that is being suggested here. This professor is just having a little "what if" fun. There have been many fan theories made about the films on threads on this very site: "Is Charles Gray's Blofeld a parody of Ian Fleming" for example. There's not explicit evidence to make the case, but I don't think any one here should be locked up for indulging in any Bond "what if" theories.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,271
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.

    Well said. Wise words from the Wizard, as always. Time to get the padlock out, methinks. Enough of this crap theory.

    But I think @Suivez_ce_parachute has a good point though. A good screenplay writer knows how to be subversive and offer little clues in the story that can be interpreted in different ways. Who knows if the theory actually is true, but it's all just for fun. I think that's all that is being suggested here. This professor is just having a little "what if" fun. There have been many fan theories made about the films on threads on this very site: "Is Charles Gray's Blofeld a parody of Ian Fleming" for example. There's not explicit evidence to make the case, but I don't think any one here should be locked up for indulging in any Bond "what if" theories.

    Well I can't disagree with any of that.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    A theory is only as good as the evidence backing it up. And it has to explain the whole in a credible model. This theory is based on one single line of Silva and an obscure rewriting of a sentence of the movie. In other words, it is hogwash. Especially since we have much better explanation.

    And especially given that if it was true they might have mentioned such a twist in the film. I think an Oscar winning director knows more about filmmaking than some alleged professor who, as Jolearon said, just wanted to get his name trending on Twitter for a few days. Probably has a book out, although if this SF theory is indicative of how he writes then what a load of garbage it must be.

    I suggest this utterly bollocks thread be closed as just because this moron went to Harvard doesn't make him not a troll. Lets cease giving him the oxygen of publicity. If a new poster had come up with this sack of toss he would have been IFMed to buggery by now.

    Well said. Wise words from the Wizard, as always. Time to get the padlock out, methinks. Enough of this crap theory.

    But I think @Suivez_ce_parachute has a good point though. A good screenplay writer knows how to be subversive and offer little clues in the story that can be interpreted in different ways. Who knows if the theory actually is true, but it's all just for fun. I think that's all that is being suggested here. This professor is just having a little "what if" fun. There have been many fan theories made about the films on threads on this very site: "Is Charles Gray's Blofeld a parody of Ian Fleming" for example. There's not explicit evidence to make the case, but I don't think any one here should be locked up for indulging in any Bond "what if" theories.

    Well I can't disagree with any of that.

    True. Still wont be a tragedy if it gets locked though.
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