Controversial opinions about the books

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Comments

  • I think Goldfinger is the Worst book.

    PussyNoMore finds this a somewhat bizarre assertion.
    Granted there are flaws but it zips along and has many attributes.
    A truly grotesque villain, a heinous henchman and a femme fatale to die for to name but three.
    It is also something of a landmark in the canon because it transitions the series from straightforward thrillerdom to spy fantasy.
    All Fleming is good Fleming but if one is forced into the ‘ranking’ business, it is difficult to see how GF can be considered inferior to DAF, YOLT or TMWTGG.

  • Posts: 16,170
    Controversial opinion: the John Gardner books are underrated, and it's a loss Eon never adapted them for the film series.

    In an alternate universe I could have seen Eon ending LTK with

    JAMES BOND WILL RETURN IN

    LICENCE RENEWED.


    Thus beginning a new era of filming the continuation novels, a solid run of 2 year gaps with the title of the next entry ALWAYS announced at the end.


    The elements in Gardner's books that may have not worked probably would have been changed for the film adaptations regardless.

    Still, I think he had some interesting characters and situations. Also I like the idea of giving Bond a Saab, and a Heckler & Koch VP70 9mm for his weapon. I'd still have kept the PPK as well, though.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: the John Gardner books are underrated, and it's a loss Eon never adapted them for the film series.

    In an alternate universe I could have seen Eon ending LTK with

    JAMES BOND WILL RETURN IN

    LICENCE RENEWED.


    Thus beginning a new era of filming the continuation novels, a solid run of 2 year gaps with the title of the next entry ALWAYS announced at the end.


    The elements in Gardner's books that may have not worked probably would have been changed for the film adaptations regardless.

    Still, I think he had some interesting characters and situations. Also I like the idea of giving Bond a Saab, and a Heckler & Koch VP70 9mm for his weapon. I'd still have kept the PPK as well, though.

    I agree. For Special Services would have worked for Roger Moore's final film in particular. Just tweak it a bit.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: the John Gardner books are underrated, and it's a loss Eon never adapted them for the film series.

    In an alternate universe I could have seen Eon ending LTK with

    JAMES BOND WILL RETURN IN

    LICENCE RENEWED.


    Thus beginning a new era of filming the continuation novels, a solid run of 2 year gaps with the title of the next entry ALWAYS announced at the end.


    The elements in Gardner's books that may have not worked probably would have been changed for the film adaptations regardless.

    Still, I think he had some interesting characters and situations. Also I like the idea of giving Bond a Saab, and a Heckler & Koch VP70 9mm for his weapon. I'd still have kept the PPK as well, though.

    I totally agree, despite some faults and repititions in his books they are in some ways tailor made to be Bondfilms at the end of the 80's/beginning of the 90's.
    When I read the Gardners I envisioned Dalton as Bond and the locations shot as John Glens films.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    This may not exactly be controversial, but the level of spirits Bond consumes in the books is ridiculous. He would more likely be ringing M telling him how much he loved him that stopping any villains
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,403
    Fleming could have probably written many more famous books if he hadn't had so many vices.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.

    Exactly my thoughts. It was in many ways his source of inspiration for writing Bond. He lived the lifestyle described within the pages of his oeuvre. To have lived a more wholesome life would rather have strangled the Bond character at inception.
  • Posts: 17,759
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!
  • Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...
  • Posts: 17,759
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2018 Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.


    But that is forced upon him against his will!
  • Posts: 17,759
    jobo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.


    But that is forced upon him against his will!

    I definitely was thinking about a (willing) health nut Bond! I mean, when you think about how specific Bond is with food and his vices, imagine a health nut version of that person!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.


    But that is forced upon him against his will!

    I definitely was thinking about a (willing) health nut Bond! I mean, when you think about how specific Bond is with food and his vices, imagine a health nut version of that person!

    I'm sorry, but try as I might, it's just too horrible to contemplate!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    jobo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.


    But that is forced upon him against his will!

    Yes, I know that full well of course, hence why I stated that it was "a limited version of this".
  • Posts: 15,125
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    I actually would.

    No but seriously one of my favourite crime fiction character in recent years has been Martin Lemmer, created by Deon Meyer. He's a private bodyguard and he's a complete teetotaler. And not because he's a sober alcoholic. He's absolutely brilliant. He does have flaws however, mainly serious anger issues.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Sorry for hijacking this thread, I didn't know where to put this. It's related to literary 007, but I don't think it's worthy of a new thread.

    This guy on Twitter posts as literary James Bond set in the 50s and 60s. He actually describes the events from Fleming's novels as he lives through them, but he bends the truth in order to keep his cover - his point of view is not that of a secret agent, but of a businessman who works for Universal Exports.

    Perhaps some of you will find this interesting.

    https://twitter.com/jb_univex

  • Posts: 17,759
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Then he wouldn’t have been Fleming. I think it worked out for the best. The work, which I love, reflected his life and mind.


    And more importantly Bond wouldn't be the character he is and we have fallen in love with. Who wants to read about the agent who is on a low carb diet and only drinks avocado smoothie?

    Shaken not stirred, surely!


    With a thin slice of lemon peel...

    Tasty!
    Wonder how a health nut Bond would look like, really.

    See Ian Fleming'sThunderball (1961) for a limited version of this, on Bond's visit to Shrublands.


    But that is forced upon him against his will!

    I definitely was thinking about a (willing) health nut Bond! I mean, when you think about how specific Bond is with food and his vices, imagine a health nut version of that person!

    I'm sorry, but try as I might, it's just too horrible to contemplate!

    :))
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    Thanks for posting that, @Superintendent - I've been following for a while and enjoying it very much. Deserves more fans!
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Sorry for hijacking this thread, I didn't know where to put this. It's related to literary 007, but I don't think it's worthy of a new thread.

    This guy on Twitter posts as literary James Bond set in the 50s and 60s. He actually describes the events from Fleming's novels as he lives through them, but he bends the truth in order to keep his cover - his point of view is not that of a secret agent, but of a businessman who works for Universal Exports.

    Perhaps some of you will find this interesting.

    https://twitter.com/jb_univex

    Absolutely brilliant, thanks for sharing!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Thanks for posting that, @Superintendent - I've been following for a while and enjoying it very much. Deserves more fans!

    Yes, I'm following him too on Twitter (@Dragonpol if you want to follow me) and we've even had a nice Twitter interaction! It's great stuff.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.
  • Posts: 787
    Roadphill wrote: »
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.

    Agreed. There are a few ways that I've made sense of this.
    a) Poetic license.
    b) Genuinely heroic levels of consumption, all but guaranteeing an early death.
    c) I believe that a few generations ago there was a coalescing of standards for spirits at ~40% alcohol, whereas prior to that things could vary wildly. So it's possible (though unlikely) that he's drinking a pint of whiskey at 30%, rather than at 40 or 45 or 50%. Still bracing but slightly less damaging, I suppose. These days well spirits are basically a bog-standard 40%, and some even have to be for the sake of labeling.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I think the most incredible
    Roadphill wrote: »
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.


    I think the most incredible thing is in Moonraker where he adds benzedrine to the vodka/champagne cocktail during a high stakes gambling session...
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 17,759
    jobo wrote: »
    I think the most incredible
    Roadphill wrote: »
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.


    I think the most incredible thing is in Moonraker where he adds benzedrine to the vodka/champagne cocktail during a high stakes gambling session...

    giphy.gif
    That cocktail should have seen that part of the book play out a bit differently!
  • Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    I think the most incredible
    Roadphill wrote: »
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.


    I think the most incredible thing is in Moonraker where he adds benzedrine to the vodka/champagne cocktail during a high stakes gambling session...

    giphy.gif
    That cocktail should have seen that part of the book play out a bit differently!


    You really do know your gifs, mate! ;)
  • Posts: 17,759
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I think the most incredible
    Roadphill wrote: »
    You misunderstood me.
    I don't mean Bond should have been a health nut, but a pint of whiskey with dinner? Even Superman wouldn't have been doing bugger all after that except being sick and passing out.


    I think the most incredible thing is in Moonraker where he adds benzedrine to the vodka/champagne cocktail during a high stakes gambling session...

    giphy.gif
    That cocktail should have seen that part of the book play out a bit differently!


    You really do know your gifs, mate! ;)

    Gifs are the new emoticons! There really is a gif for every occasion it seems, haha!
  • MrBond wrote: »
    Sorry for hijacking this thread, I didn't know where to put this. It's related to literary 007, but I don't think it's worthy of a new thread.

    This guy on Twitter posts as literary James Bond set in the 50s and 60s. He actually describes the events from Fleming's novels as he lives through them, but he bends the truth in order to keep his cover - his point of view is not that of a secret agent, but of a businessman who works for Universal Exports.

    Perhaps some of you will find this interesting.

    https://twitter.com/jb_univex

    Absolutely brilliant, thanks for sharing!

    Great stuff. PussyNoMore loves it albeit he seems to be having less sex than Bond !

  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    My mum very kindly picked up a couple of Pan Bonds for me, and at my suggestion read them before she passed them on. (She'd tried one or two of the novels in the past and disliked them, mostly because she knew enough about Fleming's private life to find the novels disturbing.)

    CASINO ROYALE: hated it. The casino bits were boring and the torture too sadistic.
    MOONRAKER: loved it, read it in an evening.

    Interesting result - I thought she'd probably like all the descriptions of Kent in MR, as I do.
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