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Oh, now I see. I missed that typo! I've amended said post accordingly. :\">
But was Dalton that well received as Bond? And while TLD easy a success, were people enthusiastic about it?
Not sure. TLD and LTK both did perfectly well outside of the US. No reason why a third movie shouldn't have done well too. Not sure at what point Roger was deemed to be a success in his own right. My understanding is that a lot of Connery fans never really accepted Moore but that didn't stop Moore becoming a great Bond with his own fan base.
It's all speculation but is there any reason to believe that had Dalton done more films that he wouldn't have cemented his status?
Even in the 90's EON catered to US tastes with the likes of Richards, Hatcher and Berry. Less so today, thankfully.
I recall reaction to Dalton being tepid & unenthusiastic. Again, this was a time when the likes of Gibson/Schwarzenegger/Willis were in vogue. All 3 had and still have oodles of on-screen charisma. Dalton really didn't, although he brought a lot of other attributes to his portrayal that were, for the most part, lost on the American audiences.
Moore as Bond in the late 70's was the top dog box office wise for the non-sci fi genre. I suggest that Schwarzenegger/Willis in particular took a lot from Roger's wisecracking Bond portrayal when creating their movie persona's, but just r-rated it for the 80's audiences.
I guess he draws on a lot of other actors as well though - David Niven, Cary Grant etc. The nonchalant, wise-cracking, dry sense of humour of those British Hollywood legends.
Rog was perhaps less upper-class (seemingly) than Niven and Grant, which I think helped give him more of a universal appeal. Niven could come across a little aloof, and Grant was perhaps just too smooth - think Rog's Bond performance is almost pitch perfect.
His style does remind me of Cary Grant at times. Overall very smooth even when faced with death
*Falls off cablecar*
"Hang on James"
"The thought had occurred to me"
That probably worked against him on more than a few occasions though.
BUT The thing is with Moore is that he's quite easy to watch. He's a likeable screen presence and has a charisma that people maybe still wanted when Dalton came in. I think Moore made his spy work look easy, whereas Dalton projected a more intense Bond.
Personally I do think Moore is the more engaging of the two actors in general. Same with Craig.
However, I think Rog's Cary Grant-esque style made a lot of sense as a follow up to Connery. Why ape Connery? So Rog did his own thing and redefined the role.
I remember the last time I saw North By Northwest and thought James Mason would have made a lot more sense as Bond rather than Cary Grant (I know Fleming was apparently fond of him).
You need to have a bit of an air of menace about you to be Bond. I'm not sure Grant (or Moore actually) have that. They're almost too likeable. Dalton kind of has it but he seems to pretend a lot of the time.
In regard to the thread's question incidently, I think Craig just captures that arrogant yet brutal quality slightly better than Dalton did. I find him a bit more convincing with the lighter stuff and just a genuinely more compelling presence.
Very true about Grant not being menacing, although interestingly, Fleming wanted him first.
Keep in mind also that Star Wars had become box office gold during Moore's 70's run. The heroes of the day were a bunch of kids (Luke) running around and Superman flying around. No menace there at all. Even Hans Solo was wisecracking in that day. So in the late 70's I think big box office meant less menace (ironically since there were so many dark movies during that time).
The menace thing is true and evident when you look back at it now, but I'm not sure it could have worked in Moore's 70's heyday given what audiences were gravitating to then.
I think "I'll be back" and "Yippee kayeee" owe a lot to Roger Moore.
I always thought James Mason would have made sense as Blofeld, but that is another topic.
I like LTK but it does feel a bit off in some regards. You sort of find yourself thinking at times "oh yeah...this is a Bond film".
Did you like LTK when you left the cinema @Birdleson? I think it's decent but it's not a particularly "fun" film. It's got "roughness" but not a lot of class.
Now that I know what the film is all about I can sit back and enjoy the story & in particular Dalton's & Davi's intensity. When I first saw the movie, I couldn't really enjoy what it had to offer because I couldn't get over the the lack of flair/glamour (cinematography/locations etc.) and this grated.
EON revisited this sort of thing recently with QoS, and I noticed they went to some lengths to ensure it looked like a true Bond film up on screen, despite the similarly dark state of mind of the hero.
Bond films must be beautiful to look at and glamorous. I think the film audiences see this as a prerequisite. EON knows that now.
And people had already watched Miami Vice for several seasons and found Don Johnson a far more acceptable choice in a war on drugs movie than they were interested in 007 doing the same. ;)
Oh, and they just didn't like Dalton in the US. The man is essentially a stage performer and tv "star"
LTK did lack glamour and exotism.
Agree with a lot of this.
I shake my head in wonder and bemusement when I read that 'Craig owes everything to Dalton', as if the very idea of a moody, edgy Bond was inconceivable without Dalton's ground-breaking performance.
The problem is Dalton's performance wasn't ground-breaking at all. It was muddled and inconsistent for a start. Craig's Bond slips effortlessly from (example) flirting with Vesper on the train to teasing Le Chiffre, to moody intensity at the table. A controlled performance, his Bond is a rounded person.
Tim flirts with Moneypenny and I hide my head in embarrassment. His moody intensity when facing up to Sanchez in his office is a lesson in controlled intense, film acting...from Robert Davi that is.
I will tell you when Dalton really succeeds, where he hits the ball clean out of the park. In the PTS for TLD his reckless pursuit of the villain's vehicle is almost Indiana Jones-like in it's gung ho daftness. No one before him, including Connery could've done all of that and made it look half as realistic.
And at the other end of his Bondship, he does it again with the LTK tanker chase. A great sequence completely rubber stamped by Dalton.
Yet, all the Dalton lovers go on about his Flemingesque performance and his edgy intensity, when all along his most convincing moments were the big action scenes.
I don't see that in Dalton's performances - in terms of his appreciation for that movie history, I get the feeling he is the one saying "Do I look like I give a damn!"
Frankly, I like that about his performances, just as I like Craig's for different reasons. I did not appreciate it at the time (in fact, I hated Dalton in the 80's) but I do now.
Rog had been Bond for so long that his take on the character had left an indelible stamp, even on Dalton.
Craig seems to me to be more comfortable with Bond's movie history, and less influenced by any actor, including Connery (the one man who casts the longest shadow)
So Dalton surely had his hands tied in some respect because EON/Glen were probably unsure. These movies were being made much more regularly too back then, so the past was still fresh and recent.
Between the 40th and 50th anniversary only 2 films have been made which suggests a greater desire by BB to 'get it right'. Cubby was churning out a production line and the 25th anniversary film was part of that line. The fact TLD was such an enjoyable romp is testament to Eon's work ethic rather than a desire to produce something of any great value.
:P
You see @chrisisall that's why I'm here - to help pull you back from the brink of Dalton worship. Learn to trust me. ;-)
And I love the fact they constructed such a Fleming-esque narrative for Bond that was worthy of Dalton's abilities; LTK. In fact I'd argue they've not quite topped the writing/portrayal of Bond since then, save CR, which had the benefit of being an origin. They've made better looking films, slicker paced films, shot better action sequences, had much better scores etc, but in terms of Bond's character shifting from A-B it's bloody brilliant.
I can agree with that, although I'd add Casino Royale into the mix.
In your previous post you said you didn't remember anyone liking the Dalton films at the time, but apparently your mum did! ;)
Oh, and the LA Times film reviewer in 1989:
Admitedly it's not a 5* review, but it's not exactly a bad review either