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TSWLM appreciation thread

BAIN123BAIN123
edited June 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 11,189
It's always intrigued me why this film seems to get a bad rap around here. I regard it as one of the very best despite Barbara Bach's "acting". Even Sir Rog thought it was his best of the 7 Bond films he did,

Anyway I just thought Id try and set up a thread where lovers of the film can express themselves :)
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Comments

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    I appreciate Naomi, Commander Carter, the PTS with the ski jump, the Lotus car/submarine chase, the Cold War era cat and mouse between 007 and Triple X, the genuine sense of suspense with the missiles ticking down to Armageddon, and the Bond goes in like the cavalry to rescue Anya from Atlantis, probably the most effective Bond going to rescue the damsel-in-distress scene since Bond heading to Piz Gloria to rescue Tracy in OHMSS.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    I finally saw this film a couple of years ago at a rep theatre (I live in a university neighborhood) and was sort of underwhelmed considering that I had often heard that this was the best Moore film (or FYEO depending on who's talking). To be fair, I was never a fan of Moore's version of Bond. So that would obviously be a huge hurdle for me to clear. But I think what was also missing for me was context.

    When this film first came out there had been two underwhelming films (LALD and TMWTGG) and my understanding is that the Bond series was in real danger of petering out and just stopping. So to see a big budget, go for broke, escapist Bond film must have been a big thrill. I can see audience members thinking "All right! Bond is BACK!" in the same way that many of us thought when we saw GE. It's like when I finally saw FYEO. I thought it was okay to good, but thought "That was it? That's the one that everyone was raving about?". But then I thought of the people who saw it when it first opened, after having sat through MR a couple of years before. I can't imagine what a "Oh thank GOD!" feeling there must have been among those who didn't like watching laser gun battles with space marines (I had a similar reaction to seeing CR after wincing at the invisible car et al in DAD).

    I must say that there were some good moments in TSWLM, but there were also some cringe-worthy parts as well. This was the only Moore film that the rep theatre has played (they've played DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, TLD, CR, and QOS in the past) and it had the lowest attendance of all of the old Bonds I've seen there. It also had the quietest audience, although there were some groans at some of the cheesy lines and moments. To give some context, when Dalton first showed his face in TLD the audience cheered, which they hadn't even done with Connery in DN!

    Although I was never a fan of Moore (there are some of his films that I've never seen outside of bits and pieces on TV) I certainly wouldn't say that I think that TSWLM is a bad film, or poorly made. It's just not to my tastes, although there were some nicely done bits such as the defusing sequence.
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    When it comes to any Roger Moore Bond movie there is always going to be a few cringe-worthy moments. I'm a fan of the film as it was the stand-out Bond movie for me as a kid when I was growing-up and with the opening credit ski-jump, the iconic underwater Lotus, the larger than life 'henchman' Jaws and of course the underwater villian's lair. Also chuck into the mix a killer theme tune and the very attractive Barbara Bach, (ignoring the quality of her acting) and I think on balance there are many positives and it remains a great movie to watch.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    It is the one where Roger Moore found his sure 007 footing. It is one of the better actioner of that era.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    It is the one where Roger Moore found his sure 007 footing. It is one of the better actioner of that era.
    You're darn right :)

    I think most people in the world seem to accept that.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    The problem with TSWLM certainly doesn't lie in Roger Moore's performance. Moore is quite solid in this flick, just like the fabulous Lotus, or the underused femme fatale Naomi. It's simply a piss poor remake of YOLT which wasn't so good in the first place. The main problem is Bach's inept acting making Brit Eklund look like Meryl Streep. I have no doubt whatsoever that with just a mediocre actress, such as Lois Chiles as history could have written it, the movie would have been much superior. Bach's laughable performance makes Bond look terribly weak for the entire duration, which is sad since I frankly find him to portray a very solid one in this flick. Kiel as Jaws was also quite a discovery, I really enjoy the Jaws scenes in this flick in general, and was quite happy to see him return in MR.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited June 2011 Posts: 3,262
    I finally saw this film a couple of years ago at a rep theatre (I live in a university neighborhood) and was sort of underwhelmed considering that I had often heard that this was the best Moore film (or FYEO depending on who's talking). To be fair, I was never a fan of Moore's version of Bond. So that would obviously be a huge hurdle for me to clear. But I think what was also missing for me was context.

    When this film first came out there had been two underwhelming films (LALD and TMWTGG) and my understanding is that the Bond series was in real danger of petering out and just stopping. So to see a big budget, go for broke, escapist Bond film must have been a big thrill. I can see audience members thinking "All right! Bond is BACK!" in the same way that many of us thought when we saw GE. It's like when I finally saw FYEO. I thought it was okay to good, but thought "That was it? That's the one that everyone was raving about?". But then I thought of the people who saw it when it first opened, after having sat through MR a couple of years before. I can't imagine what a "Oh thank GOD!" feeling there must have been among those who didn't like watching laser gun battles with space marines (I had a similar reaction to seeing CR after wincing at the invisible car et al in DAD).
    I've long thought FYEO's main appeal to its defenders is it was the anti-MR. Since I've always enjoyed MR, FYEO's always seemed overrated to me. Decent yes but one of the "all time great" Bond films? :-S Hardly. I've had a similar Bond film experience though. TLD for me is the anti-AVTAK which probably helps my high ranking of it I freely admit.
    I must say that there were some good moments in TSWLM, but there were also some cringe-worthy parts as well. This was the only Moore film that the rep theatre has played (they've played DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, TLD, CR, and QOS in the past) and it had the lowest attendance of all of the old Bonds I've seen there. It also had the quietest audience, although there were some groans at some of the cheesy lines and moments. To give some context, when Dalton first showed his face in TLD the audience cheered, which they hadn't even done with Connery in DN!
    It always nice to read of the underrated 4th official Bond actor getting applause and appreciation.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    PrinceKamalKhan - interesting that you say that TLD is the anti-AVTAK for you. I never saw AVTAK, but I loved TLD because it was a move away from the "SuperBond" films of Moore and the cartoony humour. I though Dalton was quite impressive as 007, and thought the fight scenes (especially the kitchen fight) had a potency long lost in the series.

    When I saw TLD at the rep theatre it brought back a flood of memories and nostalgia. It was interesting to see the film without the opening weekend context. I still found Dalton's presence and performance impressive (although a little heightened) but the film itself seemed a little...smaller. Still good, and a treat to hear the audience cheer when Dalton turned around. I thought he had a nice light touch with the humourous lines and that he was quite charming (as did the rest of the audience based on their reactions). He also did a great slow burn and TLD has one of my favourite bits of humour in all the Bond films when Kara exclaims "We're free!" with a huge smile, and Dalton looks at her like she's insane and points out "Kara...we're inside a Russian Air Force base in the middle of Afghanistan..."

    There were some knowing chuckles and murmurs of approval when Connery first said "Bond...James Bond" in DN but to hear the audience cheer Dalton...well, it felt a little like vindication!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    It's simply a piss poor remake of YOLT which wasn't so good in the first place.
    It's better than YOLT IMO. Better performance from its star, better title song and better action. By that argument MR is also a "piss poor remake" of TSWLM.
    I really enjoy the Jaws scenes in this flick in general, and was quite happy to see him return in MR.
    Shame he wasn't particularly threatening in MR though ;)

  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    @BAIN123 I still enjoy Jaws in MR, but I would also have preferred him to be villainous rather than comical relief. As for MR in general, it's a masterpiece compared to TSWLM, ask DC, he'll tell ya ;) :-c
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    Jaws was a great creation, but I thought even in TSWLM they short-circuited his threatening nature. He was quite frightening until he started pulling the van apart instead of trying to attack Bond or XXX. If I was 7 then I would have been scared witless (the *idea* of Jaws would have been terrifying regardless of the execution) but as an adult if instantly made him somewhat silly. Still, the best henchman since Oddjob IMHO.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Jaws was a great creation, but I thought even in TSWLM they short-circuited his threatening nature. He was quite frightening until he started pulling the van apart instead of trying to attack Bond or XXX
    I agree Flasheart but he still had more "scary" moments in Spy than in MR (the scene in the train is another example).

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718
    @Luds what mosquito has bitten you ?? YOLT was a fantastic outing, and TWSLM is also great !! Both outings are in my top 7 !! :-bd
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    @Luds what mosquito has bitten you ?? YOLT was a fantastic outing, and TWSLM is also great !! Both outings are in my top 7 !! :-bd
    Under MR though ;)
    :-c
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Evidently Luds - MR is 2nd, just behind TMWTGG, and in front of DAF (3rd) !! :-bd TB and TSWLM round up the top 5 !! FYEO 6th and YOLT 7th !! :-bd
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    I am biased when it comes to TSWLM. I used to watch this film practically once per week in my very early teens. It was the only Bond I had on tape and I played it over and over again on our newly bought VCR. I literally wore that out. And needless to say I was quite fond of that film. Loved every bit of it, especially the grand finale aboard the Liparus.

    Then I matured and started seeing the flaws. Poor acting from Bach (who had to carry an important part in the movie), ridiculous similarities between this film and Gilbert's previous one, Jaws, an altogether not so brilliant plot and so on and so on. However, I still like the film, and for more than nostalgia's sake I might add. I'm one of the few who can appreciate Hamlish's music, I love the action scenes and Moore's performance is spot on. That said, I prefer MR over this one. Barry holds the key to that. ;;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718
    II prefer MR over this one. Barry holds the key to that. ;;)
    I fully agree, my friend !! :-bd
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    The best moments out of TSWLM came with its amazing action sequences, such as the pre-title sequence ski chase, the fight between Bond and Sandor, all the run-ins with Jaws, the Lotus Espirit car chase and underwater chase, the epic gun battle aboard the Liparus (probably the best), and Bond rescuing Anya from Stromberg's clutches in Atlantis.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    II prefer MR over this one. Barry holds the key to that. ;;)
    I fully agree, my friend !! :-bd
    Me three. However, I wouldn't say just Barry holds the key. I also prefer MR's structure where Bond meets both the central villain and the leading lady very early on in the film and these 2 supporting characters have a large presence in most of the film. Of all 3 Gilbert films, this happens the earliest in MR and I think the film benefits from it.

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I agree with you, PrinceKamalKhan. Moonraker really does benefit from meeting Hugo Drax and Holly Goodhead early on. We get these constant meetings between Drax and Bond throughout the film, and after each one, the tension grows stronger, until the ending in which Bond finishes off the space-obsessed industrialist.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    There's a reason why Spy has been my favourite - or at least, for the majority of that time, joint favourite - Bond flick ever since I first saw it 21 years ago; it's fun, frothy, sexy, exciting, epic, in parts edgy and a damned satisfting (mostly) light Bond movie.

    It was - and remains - highly rated among the regular Bond family of the '60s, '70s and '80s, as well as being Sir Rog's favourite among his 007 efforts. That should tell us everything, methinks... :)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    There's a reason why Spy has been my favourite - or at least, for the majority of that time, joint favourite - Bond flick ever since I first saw it 21 years ago; it's fun, frothy, sexy, exciting, epic, in parts edgy and a damned satisfting (mostly) light Bond movie.

    It was - and remains - highly rated among the regular Bond family of the '60s, '70s and '80s, as well as being Sir Rog's favourite among his 007 efforts. That should tell us everything, methinks... :)


    :-c :-c
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    After watching TSWLM last day 31, i've saw that Moore climbed up on my rank. By just watching Brosnan and Craig movies, and *A BIT* of the FRWL storyline on the videogames, i see that i'm losing time here, by not watching all the classic Bond films. Moore actually acted really god at this one, I believe this is the movie where he's best known, after Moonraker, right? Because, the action scenes are great and i loved the final sub pen part. Oh, and that "Bond moment" with the plastique is awesome!
    I never saw the Lotus Esprit in action, that's one of the most markable moments of the 70' cinema. I recognized some parts of the pursuit scene, because of the 007 Racing game intro - a Great game BTW - That was great.
    I also like the part where he wears the tux. I guess everyone does like it, right? Those scenes can't miss in 007 films, if it does, that's not a Bond movie for me. Bond needs a party-with-tux every film, it's a must-have.
    Also, I of course, recognized the Atlantis and Sub Pen parts, from Nightfire, after seeing the movie i see they are very close to the real ones, from the movie.
    I didn't watch the other movies yet, but Moore climbed my rank now, being better than Craig for me (Brosnan's 1st, Craig WAS 2nd. Now he's 3rd) and i see how great was his epoch, yet i didn't see any other film yet, but planning to do it, soon.
    And, repeating, i'm Brazilian, i don't know how to express myself very well as my english's not so good yet, so i don't know if u guys understand so much of what i've told here, i'm not a great Criticiser but i do what i can, lol. And of course, i've enjoyed a lot in watching TSWLM, kinda entering another Bond epoch, and seeing the Legacy that those great actores left for the actual ones, making Bond the best agent ever.

    [Repeating the comment i did on my locked thread]
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    Probably my favorite out of the Moore films (as of right now, at least), even if it is a ripoff of YOLT. Especially love the giant battle at the end of it. Although it doesn't surprise me that it was very well done, considering that's Lewis Gilbert's strong suit.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    This is my favorite Moore film. One reason could be because of the Cold War romance of Bond and Amasova.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Watched it in a darkened room with a bowl full of pop corn, Perfect.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I used to find TSWLM just okay, but nothing special, but after recent watchings, I really like it. The locations and action are the movie's two strong points, and also a good performance by Roger Moore.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I've only seen TSWLM twice and I can't remember the plot of this one. All I remember is the Bond girl wants Bond dead beacause he killed someone close to her. I know that it is my third favorite Moore Bond film. I think I may watch this one tonight and I'll get back to you guys with my opinion.
  • fassbonder007fassbonder007
    Posts: 126
    Hey, I got a question. Plus, I want to see if this is really better than starting a thread on it.

    A new thread might get locked, but at least I would get my answer b4 it's locked, so lets test this out...

    It is about the two guys that Stromberg blew up in the helicopter. Did they sell the Plans, too, or did Stromberg just want to kill them because he didnt want to pay them?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    fassbonder007 wrote:
    Hey, I got a question. Plus, I want to see if this is really better than starting a thread on it.

    A new thread might get locked, but at least I would get my answer b4 it's locked, so lets test this out...

    It is about the two guys that Stromberg blew up in the helicopter. Did they sell the Plans, too, or did Stromberg just want to kill them because he didnt want to pay them?

    I think he killed them because he got what he wanted out of them and thought they could be a possible liability so he just killed them.
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