It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • I agree with the consensus that the Bond of CR/QOS seems incredibly different than the one of SF/SP/NTTD.
  • slide_99 wrote: »
    I think of the Craig movies in two eras.....CR-QoS, and SF-SP-NTTD.....the latter of which took increasing influence from Christopher Nolan movies.

    Yup. When Craig walks into the night at the end of QOS, it felt to me like that version of his Bond never came back. They took a weird turn with SF that culminated in NTTD that doesn't match up with the style and realistic world-building of CR-QOS.

    Exactly this. 💯

    Didn't miss the gadgets or all the other clichés one bit. It was still Fleming's James Bond. Just more grown up...

    Exactly! Gadgets and cliches are what drove the franchise into the ground right up to DAD. And all throughout the series, there were warning signs that these cliches should not be relied upon. In fact, they should be let go of....it started with DAF wasting a good chance to follow up with OHMSS despite having Sean Connery back.....TMWTGG did it in.....it took 3 years (unprecedented at the time) for another movie to follow it up....then came the knife that bled the series well into the 80's. I'm talking about MR.....a movie so expensive and over the top that FYEO couldn't save the studios from the budget of each movie becoming smaller and smaller to make up for the loss incurred from the high budget and marketing over the next ten years.

    Movies like AVTAK and LTK in particular suffered as a result, often being compared to tv movies with the quality of film work due to budget constraints.....PB may have been the people's choice actor for Bond but not even GE could satisfy all the fans who were waiting to see his performance live up to its potential. While the actor complained about the one-liners, the gadgets and cliches came to a point with DAD to waste another decade on the franchise.

    SF was made directed by someone who was good at his own style of dramas but when it came to the series, he demonstrated too much of his fandom from before the CR-QoS era and it didn't help.

    When the series tries to imitate itself, it makes more movies that imitate GF in worse ways as opposed to FRWL. The formula hadn't quite been cemented to the point of being a cliche until GF came out...FRWL, OHMSS, CR, QoS don't follow formula and they age better and keep the franchise going.

    With TV streaming being the main source of entertainment these days, studios should not have to risk the Bond franchise with formula, gadgets, and cliches...that will drive the franchise back into the ground.

    @slide_99 .....sadly, yes.....Bond walking into the snowy night of Kazan, Russia was the last of the realism that made the most recent Golden Age of the series. It was so haunting...

  • If there are 20 minutes left on the cutting floor of the short QoS, wouldn't you want to have seen it? The director had only 6 weeks to edit the movie but it doesnt mean that a rerelease is unwise. The only thing that needs to be kept cut is the original last scene which kills of Mr. White. Other than that...the producers at a Q&A said that there was a scene where Bond expressed remorse at the sight of Fields' death. I asked if it was because she represented an innocence that Bond missed from the time before he fell for Vesper. Marc Forster said "yes" in a happy tone of relief to know that the film has depth in its dramatic scenes.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    If there was another two minutes of QOS, I'd want to see it. If there was another 102 minutes of QOS, I'd want to see it. Twenty minutes? I'd savour every one of them.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I've always and will always love QoS.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,032
    QOS Extended Cut please!!!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2022 Posts: 3,152
    That rumoured special edition never did come out, goddamnit! If EON want to give us something as a 60th-anniversary present...
  • It would sell like hotcakes if Daniel Craig does a watch along livestream or commentary for it with the Extended cut as well. Judi Dench could certainly help with that.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Venutius wrote: »
    That rumoured special edition never did come out, goddamnit! If EON want to give us something as a 60th-anniversary present...

    My wallet is willing and ready for this release.
    It would sell like hotcakes if Daniel Craig does a watch along livestream or commentary for it with the Extended cut as well. Judi Dench could certainly help with that.

    I'd lose my mind if we got something akin to the GE watch along livestream with Brosnan for that.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    If there are 20 minutes left on the cutting floor of the short QoS, wouldn't you want to have seen it? The director had only 6 weeks to edit the movie but it doesnt mean that a rerelease is unwise. The only thing that needs to be kept cut is the original last scene which kills of Mr. White. Other than that...the producers at a Q&A said that there was a scene where Bond expressed remorse at the sight of Fields' death. I asked if it was because she represented an innocence that Bond missed from the time before he fell for Vesper. Marc Forster said "yes" in a happy tone of relief to know that the film has depth in its dramatic scenes.

    I'd happily have watched another hour of QOS. I never wanted it to end...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    It had such an organic feel to it. Like the very early Bonds. Raw... a bit unfinished. So different than the ones that came after it.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    It had such an organic feel to it. Like the very early Bonds. Raw... a bit unfinished. So different than the ones that came after it.

    It didn't try to be a Bond movie....it let the narrative and aftermath of Vesper's death play out despite too much reliance on plot (sadly), DC emphasizing his own stunts and getting hurt to help compensate for the lack of script....SF, SP, NTTD all try to be Bond movies for the most part. The one liners and some of the action in NTTD were a bit forced for a story that was emotional.

  • Can anyone petition for an extended cut and DC and JD commentary view along? The producers and studios will make more money with the property while it'll be years before Bond 26. It's a win-win....
  • JohnBondJohnBond France
    Posts: 20
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It had such an organic feel to it. Like the very early Bonds. Raw... a bit unfinished. So different than the ones that came after it.

    I cannot think of a better way to describe it. Exactly this. Organic, raw, early Bond… I can definitely see the connexion with DN, FRWL, and also with LALD, TMWTGG and LTK. This is how I like my Bond films: no green figs, no yoghurt, just coffee, very black. And no gadgets. I love how, in the first two Connery and Craig films especially, we just follow Bond from one place to another, and focus on him. It's as simple as that. I think QOS shows that, as long as you have a charismatic and committed actor as Bond, you could just follow him with your camera and a small crew, going from one place to another, fighting, driving a car, having dinner, walking around, spying… like a documentary film or a road movie, and make a very interesting Bond film out of it. I would like to see that happen one day. But the simplicity of DN, FRWL, LALD, TMWTGG, LTK, CR (first part especially) and QOS give me that feeling already.
  • JohnBond wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It had such an organic feel to it. Like the very early Bonds. Raw... a bit unfinished. So different than the ones that came after it.

    I cannot think of a better way to describe it. Exactly this. Organic, raw, early Bond… I can definitely see the connexion with DN, FRWL, and also with LALD, TMWTGG and LTK. This is how I like my Bond films: no green figs, no yoghurt, just coffee, very black. And no gadgets. I love how, in the first two Connery and Craig films especially, we just follow Bond from one place to another, and focus on him. It's as simple as that. I think QOS shows that, as long as you have a charismatic and committed actor as Bond, you could just follow him with your camera and a small crew, going from one place to another, fighting, driving a car, having dinner, walking around, spying… like a documentary film or a road movie, and make a very interesting Bond film out of it. I would like to see that happen one day. But the simplicity of DN, FRWL, LALD, TMWTGG, LTK, CR (first part especially) and QOS give me that feeling already.

    Wow! Good observation!

    The producers seem like they feel punished every time they make an effort to do that kind of documentary-style of CHARACTER-DRIVEN storytelling. You could tell that humor was forced in the last 3 DC movies and that the cliches were inserted as fan service. The franchise has a better likelihood of even larger success when both fans and non-fans are given a good movie like CR. Keeping fans and non-fans builds a bigger audience, not checklists.

    Neal Purvis apologized to me in person for DAD. I think the director was in part at fault. After that film, I'd sworn off going back to theatres for a Bond film.....and then CR happened....you didn't have to be a fan of the cliches to like CR.....I went to the theatre and watched it. PB was jealous and had every right to be.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2022 Posts: 3,152
    So many nails hit directly on the head in these comments. Craig said at the time of QOS that 'You've got to forget that you're making a Bond movie' - whereas the later films were very self-conscious about being Bond films. QOS didn't rely on tropes, while at times it did feel as if Mendes and Fukunaga were ticking off their Bond wishlists. I thought QOS was exactly the right direction and my biggest regret of the whole series is that EON retreated back down a more familiar path for the rest of Craig's tenure after the (unjustified) critical response to QOS. Extended special edition needed ASAP.
  • Films in and outside of the franchise like Batman Returns, CR, and QoS have an atmosphere of melancholy that could never be matched by their sequels.

    If QoS is given that special edition it would have an opportunity to use the unseen footage and the film could be re-edited to what would have been an intended outcome had there been more time for production to do so....this means that an abridged version of CR-QoS to help the story play out more coherently could be made. David arnold could also be brought in to score the rest of the 20 minutes worth of scenes missing...or maybe there is some unreleased music from the film.

    DC was quoted as not wanting to further the Vesper story at the premiere of QoS...this may have been a reason why Marc Forster decided against using the original fate of Mr. White. But if that scene would have been aired, we wouldn't have gotten to see him again in SP years later to deepen the CR story arc with his daughter being involved with Bond.

    When Bond is getting ready for his impending death in NTTD, many flashbacks could have been played including the time when he was going in the burning hotel at Playas De Las Dunas sitting with Camille thinking they were going to die. Also other scenes like him cradling Mathis, and other scenes from past films. The burning hotel scene was made effectively to make it feel like he was going to grant Camille's wish.

    The scene when Dominic Greene laughs at Bond saying "hahaha, looks like you just lost another one" is very similar to how Bond dispatches Safin in NTTD....it's more subtle to reflect that Bond has greater worries on his mind than the arseh-le in front of him he's been wasting too much time with.


    Admit it, you all wish you could watch a deleted scene where Dominic Greene drinks a can of oil.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Admit it, you all wish you could watch a deleted scene where Dominic Greene drinks a can of oil.

    Yes, but it would never measure up to my imagination of it. Choking bastid.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Admit it, you all wish you could watch a deleted scene where Dominic Greene drinks a can of oil.

    Yes, but it would never measure up to my imagination of it. Choking bastid.

    You know the way he looks lost when he's thrown out of the car in the desert? So he pops the oil can open like a soda and sips it. Then he barfs....or there could be a retroactively filmed sequence where M's men find Greene's dead body with oil coming out of his mouth.

    I bet you want to watch a deleted Quantum of Solace scene where......
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 1,282
    If there are 20 minutes left on the cutting floor of the short QoS, wouldn't you want to have seen it? The director had only 6 weeks to edit the movie but it doesnt mean that a rerelease is unwise. The only thing that needs to be kept cut is the original last scene which kills of Mr. White. Other than that...the producers at a Q&A said that there was a scene where Bond expressed remorse at the sight of Fields' death. I asked if it was because she represented an innocence that Bond missed from the time before he fell for Vesper. Marc Forster said "yes" in a happy tone of relief to know that the film has depth in its dramatic scenes.

    I'd happily have watched another hour of QOS. I never wanted it to end...

    Here's how DC was in part responsible for how SF was the beginning of how his last 3 films were just too different from the CR-QoS era...and this was right when QoS had premiered.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_23_report_dec08.php3


    Perhaps a QoS longer version re-release could come out with a remastering of BloodStone with new generation video game graphics. And the good thing about the video game in story mode is that it can be repurposed with new scenes to better serve as that bridge between QoS and SF than the current version.

    The series benefits most from the actors who really care about the role in terms of script, direction/directing, producing, and character. The two top actors who cared most about the role were DC and TD....SC loved the character but was not given enough creative control and felt no choice but to leave to be happy.... DC is a video game too and had lots of input on how to update GE007 for 2011 with Judi Dench. He made it his own and it didn't come off as the FRWL video game which came across more as an over-the-top cliche when SC last touched the 007 role.

    By the time Everything or Nothing had come out, PB had a lot going against him to keep the role....he was already one of the highest paid actors so he felt that the bargaining table was his to turn, the producers were already thinking with one another about rebooting the series and wanted to see how Batman Begins would play out, and PB had realized his 007 movie qualities were becoming worse with subsequent one and complained to the press about the one-liners instead of working hard diplomatically behind the scenes with the writers and producers. It's like he felt that Purvis and Wade were one-time hires that the producers wouldn't keep. So it was cheaper to leave him alone and it's broken his heart to this day.

    DC was the last actor to get praise from all the predecessor actors, namely SC, who always wished he could have done a film like OHMSS....GL was a lot like PB but his actions during filming and around the premiere were just too arrogant/naive/immature when he was in the late 60's. If GL didn't have too much pride, he wouldn't have often hidden or left the room out of embarrassment when SC was physically nearby him.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Excellent - I remembered that 'I'm done with that storyline' quote but could never again find the source of it in later years. One to bring out if anyone claims there was always a planned 'arc' for Dan's films. I also remember the slight sinking feeling I had when he mentioned Q, Moneypenny and having 'some fun with it'...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited January 2022 Posts: 13,790
    Being done with the Vesper storyline would be the decision of the longtime producers, whatever Craig said out loud at the time.

    Surely the filmmakers' plans and directions changed many times over. From the original May 2008 target for releasing BOND 22, then with studio delays and emergent developments over the years. And I just called you surely.

    Not sure who proposed (or will propose) they always planned an arc. Still there must be quotes and evidence to support they had a general plan for Craig's tenure (while still it changed many times over). And likewise comments and evidence indicating there was none.

  • edited January 2022 Posts: 1,282
    Being done with the Vesper storyline would be the decision of the longtime producers, whatever Craig said out loud at the time.

    Surely the filmmakers' plans and directions changed many times over. From the original May 2008 target for releasing BOND 22, then with studio delays and emergent developments over the years. And I just called you surely.

    Not sure who proposed (or will propose) they always planned an arc. Still there must be quotes and evidence to support they had a general plan for Craig's tenure (while still it changed many times over). And likewise comments and evidence indicating there was none.
    Venutius wrote: »
    Excellent - I remembered that 'I'm done with that storyline' quote but could never again find the source of it in later years. One to bring out if anyone claims there was always a planned 'arc' for Dan's films. I also remember the slight sinking feeling I had when he mentioned Q, Moneypenny and having 'some fun with it'...

    You know....all those recent statements by Barbara Broccoli saying that DC had wanted to kill off the character just CR was released....it was just probably a thought in DC's mind because he had given his all and was thinking the fans were still not giving approval to his casting. He could have not returned for NTTD, but decided to on his terms. Back when SF was released, he was under contract for 2 more films but I think the 2nd one was only optional.

    But yeah....SF used from QoS the M and Bond chemistry and set relationship to its benefit without giving as much credit...even the words "unprofessional" about regrets made it to the script...but the film was blatantly made as a standalone. It was funner to make because there was no writer's strike and time crunch for DC. The movie got highly marketed too while riding on the 50th anniversary vehicle.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    QOS was the last time a really excellent Bond movie came out.
  • Despite having three more Bond movies including two which blatently reference Vesper Lynd....Eva Green never made it to the red carpet for the movies after CR....which adds to the sadness of Vesper's passing. DC's Bond is one hell of a strong and resilient lead!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Is it true that Eva was actually paid a retainer for QOS until Forster scrapped the scenes where Vesper was 'haunting Bond'?
  • @Venutius Where did you hear about those scenes? Would have helped the movie a lot more to have those.

    The only scene I remember being mentioned was that of a pre-recorded message on her laptop featuring her....similar to what we saw in Spectre with each M's participation and the mere mention of her on a tape that Bond never watches. The scene could even have been the interrogation itself to intensify how much Mr. White was a villain.

    Little is know if Eva Green even appeared for a photo shoot with Yusef in that picture we see, but it's highly likely that she did and hence, was paid for it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    I couldn't actually remember, so I had to track it down. Turns out it was a claim by Purvis and Wade, who said their version of the QOS script had Bond 'imagining her, seeing her, he's haunted by her.' They also said there was some talk of Eva appearing in flashbacks too, showing 'how she got caught up in it all' - that would've probably been the tape/interrogation.
    Apparently, Eva wasn't actually on a retainer for QOS, though - there was an option in her contract instead. According to Some KInd of Hero, in the end Eva only 'spent a day on the production for the photograph of her with Yusef.' Even so, doesn't that actually make Eva Green the first Bond girl since Eunice Gayson to work on two consecutive Bond films? ;)
  • After MR....the 80s movies each suffered su sequently one after another in terms of budget due to high costs....the series can't afford more hit or miss Bond movies. That TMWTGG, FYEO, OP, AVTAK,
    Venutius wrote: »
    I couldn't actually remember, so I had to track it down. Turns out it was a claim by Purvis and Wade, who said their version of the QOS script had Bond 'imagining her, seeing her, he's haunted by her.' They also said there was some talk of Eva appearing in flashbacks too, showing 'how she got caught up in it all' - that would've probably been the tape/interrogation.
    Apparently, Eva wasn't actually on a retainer for QOS, though - there was an option in her contract instead. According to Some KInd of Hero, in the end Eva only 'spent a day on the production for the photograph of her with Yusef.' Even so, doesn't that actually make Eva Green the first Bond girl since Eunice Gayson to work on two consecutive Bond films? ;)

    Wow! Yes, as a matter of fact, it does. But Madeleine has to take the title due to Lea's active involvement. Lea and all the folks who appeared in SP really banded together to help NTTD be a better direct sequel. QoS had a lot of pressure on it. Perhaps that writer's strike didn't allow Greene to do more than the photo shoot with Yusef.

    It's good to know she wasn't just photoshopped into the picture...but why wasn't she at the premiere?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2022 Posts: 14,571
    Just on the topic of the photo, there were actually two photos of Vesper with Yusef seen in the file. Two slightly different photos from the same shoot. You can just see a bit of the second one underneath, a slightly different pose. I've never been able to track down the second one online.
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