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It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    "Welcome to Hell, Blofeld." is still the best after kill comment.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    "Welcome to Hell, Blofeld." is still the best after kill comment.

    Yes, brilliant, but what about "Would you mind if my wife sits this one out here ? She's just dead."
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    "Welcome to Hell, Blofeld." is still the best after kill comment.

    Yes, it absolutely works. Not a comedy quip but a pointed line perfect for the Connery Bond. I still think it works as revenge for Tracy, but I know I'm likely in a very small minority in that opinion.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    BT3366 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    "Welcome to Hell, Blofeld." is still the best after kill comment.

    Yes, it absolutely works. Not a comedy quip but a pointed line perfect for the Connery Bond. I still think it works as revenge for Tracy, but I know I'm likely in a very small minority in that opinion.

    I always assumed it was for Tracy, even though DAF was trying to distance itself from OHMSS to a degree.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    Hmmm...don't you mean, given the subject matter of the line, a "dead joke" ? Because it's about someone now being dead ? Perhaps you just made a type and missed the "e." And, yes, this is a very strained effort at making a Dad joke. Don't mind me ! Moving on, now...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    Since62 wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    Hmmm...don't you mean, given the subject matter of the line, a "dead joke" ? Because it's about someone now being dead ? Perhaps you just made a type and missed the "e." And, yes, this is a very strained effort at making a Dad joke. Don't mind me ! Moving on, now...
    Oooh. I was thinking DAD joke.


  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    We need Haggis back!

    100% agree with this. Haggis is very good writer and I think he made Purvis and Wade better

    We definitely need Haggis back!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    Exactly! All those past decades and a whole dozen or more movies...come on! Those cheesy quips and gadgets ruined the series. Even if the invisible car wasn't in DAD, it was just another formulaic movie full of quips throughout....they have their place in time and it's better that we move on.

    Keep Haggis.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    Exactly! All those past decades and a whole dozen or more movies...come on! Those cheesy quips and gadgets ruined the series. Even if the invisible car wasn't in DAD, it was just another formulaic movie full of quips throughout....they have their place in time and it's better that we move on.

    Keep Haggis.

    It brought to mind the bit in the first Austin Powers where a henchman meets a nasty end and he keeps making various bad jokes until they get it's one too many. That sums it up nicely.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    BT3366 wrote: »
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The way that Bond calmly holds onto Slate til he bleeds out. Cold, man. QOS scriptwriter, Paul Haggis (a lifelong Fleming fan), said that 'my Bond is different than all the other Bonds. My Bond is an actual assassin; when he kills somebody, he does it with a knife, and it's bloody, and he pays a price. He denies that he has to pay a price, but he does.' When you look at QOS with that in mind, you can see it all through the film.

    The way the character developed throughout the years, people tend to forget that. It's why when Roger Moore's Bond would make a cold-blooded kill it would be a bit more of a shock and more effective because there was so much more emphasis on his light, suave side. Or why it was awkward to shoehorn those lines in during Dalton's era when that was clearly not his strength.

    That's why with Craig if was refreshing we didn't get an unnecessary quip after a nasty bit. I see so many comments where people miss the jokes and quips. They have their place and time, but not at the expense of showing what a 00 agent has that designation for. And especially if it sounds like a dad joke.

    Exactly! All those past decades and a whole dozen or more movies...come on! Those cheesy quips and gadgets ruined the series. Even if the invisible car wasn't in DAD, it was just another formulaic movie full of quips throughout....they have their place in time and it's better that we move on.

    Keep Haggis.

    It brought to mind the bit in the first Austin Powers where a henchman meets a nasty end and he keeps making various bad jokes until they get it's one too many. That sums it up nicely.

    Even during the whole stint of the PB era, Austin Powers' movies weren't enough to keep the series in check from repeating its past trite tropes too much...it was much after the third movie Goldmember that this finally happened.

    Hollywood Reporter magazine featured an open letter written congratulating Eon for DAD like it was a quality film....such dumb stuff. It's like the Oscars; nobody wants to watch a bunch of celebs congratulate themselves anymore. I'm not watching the Oscars, no thanks. And ever since DAD, I have always waited to watch the new 007 movies released and fortunately Daniel Craig's films try harder with guys like Haggis or other collaborators. I can't say the same for Bond 26 but I hope the producers won't let the series go over the top and be about the cliches again. If they try harder and harder, eventually the Oscars will come to them....I get it....earning an Oscar is good for them, but watching the tone-deaf Oscars is someting else that I will keep away from.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Looking at the situation...you can't blame DC for enjoying the principle photography process of SF more than QoS.

    David Arnold had two things to his advantage as composer: be composed the score after principal photography and while the movie had been mostly edited or was being edited. Secondly, he also was aware of the gruelling production process such as the time there were only about 5 crew members for one scene at midnight when everyone had to wake up early the next morning. He had that ability to blend all the inner anguish and angst as Bond had along with the kind of pressure the actor was handling.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    Even during the whole stint of the PB era, Austin Powers' movies weren't enough to keep the series in check from repeating its past trite tropes too much...

    Indeed. The series weathered Austin Powers with barely a ripple - the actual game-changer was The Bourne Identity. During the making of DAD, Barbara Broccoli, MGW and Lee Tamahori went to see The Bourne Identity and came out convinced that 'we were dead in the water'!

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,152
    With the QOS score, it's also worth noting that Marc Forster worked with David Arnold to emphasise particular elements so that the score reflected not just the scene/plot but the characters' inner journey too. Those ideas and that collaborative approach gave it more depth and really paid off - Arnold's QOS score is a total triumph.

    With Paul Haggis, it's also worth noting that Martin Campbell said that Haggis 'completely re-wrote' P & W's script for CR and that CraigBond's character came from Haggis, not Purvis and Wade. Being a vastly better writer than P & W and a serious, longtime Fleming fan, Haggis's input surely was a major part of why CR and QOS were so brilliant. I can only dream of what we might've had if Paul Haggis had returned for future DC films...
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Venutius wrote: »
    With the QOS score, it's also worth noting that Marc Forster worked with David Arnold to emphasise particular elements so that the score reflected not just the scene/plot but the characters' inner journey too. Those ideas and that collaborative approach gave it more depth and really paid off - Arnold's QOS score is a total triumph.

    With Paul Haggis, it's also worth noting that Martin Campbell said that Haggis 'completely re-wrote' P & W's script for CR and that CraigBond's character came from Haggis, not Purvis and Wade. Being a vastly better writer than P & W and a serious, longtime Fleming fan, Haggis's input surely was a major part of why CR and QOS were so brilliant. I can only dream of what we might've had if Paul Haggis had returned for future DC films...

    Spot on!!!

    And ironically, the Jason Bourne movies died because they went from an original approach to a more cinematically formulaic style that imitates traditional action movies with their last two films.

    Haggis and Arnold can still come and help keep the series running well even though DC is gone. Plus, Rory Kinnear would be a great mainstay as Tanner. If his acting chops can prove it, he can even climb up the ranks over the next film or two and become M. Hey @Germanlady , come cancel me for saying that!
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,247
    CR & QoS....from the Golden era of Craig's Bond. Similar to Dalton's Bond TLD & LTK.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    I'm noting the real world events of 9/11 and the WOT that could not be ignored.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,152
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    And ironically, the Jason Bourne movies died because they went from an original approach to a more cinematically formulaic style that imitates traditional action movies with their last two films.

    Yes, the one with Jeremy Renner was just a cash-in and that last one that Damon and Greengrass made was a pointless re-hash and just daft. Bourne's dad created Treadstone and Jason joined up to avenge his pa? :-O
    Slaps hand to forehead and shakes head wearily...Doug Liman is rolling in his grave - and he's not even dead!

  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited March 2022 Posts: 693
    Venutius wrote: »
    Bourne's dad created Treadstone and Jason joined up to avenge his pa? :-O

    The Craig era went down the same path. This type of hack writing is endemic in Hollywood these days.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    As I recall the best part shot for the most recent Bourne was a an amateur boxing match for $. It appeared in Previews but not the finished film. Considering the finished film was just 45 minutes long (Yes, I am exaggerating) there was room to add it in.
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree
    edited March 2022 Posts: 784
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »

    The Craig era went down the same path. This type of hack writing is endemic in Hollywood these days.

    Not just Hollywood. I tried to become a screenwriter in my home country because I thought just about anyone could do better. They wouldn't have me.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Since62 wrote: »
    As I recall the best part shot for the most recent Bourne was a an amateur boxing match for $. It appeared in Previews but not the finished film.

    Absolutely - that one-punch KO was the highlight of the trailer, but in the film itself they showed it from a different perspective (from behind Bourne, I think) and totally wasted it. Pffft.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @slide_99 ... How do you know the Craig Era went down this path?

    And if you think this is "hack" writing, you could always write your own script?
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    Venutius wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    As I recall the best part shot for the most recent Bourne was a an amateur boxing match for $. It appeared in Previews but not the finished film.

    Absolutely - that one-punch KO was the highlight of the trailer, but in the film itself they showed it from a different perspective (from behind Bourne, I think) and totally wasted it. Pffft.

    The great thing about it was the set-up. Bourne looked small compared with the other guy, and everyone bet on the other guy, making Bourne's collecting share for winning better, and Bourne did nothing to indicate any experience or skills, and then the fight started and WHAM ! One and done. He needed money quickly and this was how he got some. Pretty funny, especially since Bourne films generally lacked humor, as was appropriate for their stories.

    As for the last film or two being worse than before - certainly, but they really did need to move on from "Oh NOOOWWWW I remember that traumatizing event !" How many were there ? He realized he was sickened by what he was doing and he left it. I found it confusing how the first two ? three ? films seemed to be repeats in this regard, except that the assassination job which turned him was a different one each time. If anyone understands it please 'splain it to me !
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,152
    There's only one explanation: money. There weren't any stories left to tell, IMO - Bourne's arc was done after The Bourne Identity. Liman himself wasn't a fan of the sequels and complained that they'd altered Bourne's backstory in order to create them. Franka Potente didn't want to make a sequel at all and when she was asked why she'd done it, she just said 'Contractual' and left it at that. That's the same reason Liman gets credited as 'executive producer' on the sequels, even though he has zero input into them. I know I take an extreme position in seeing The Bourne Identity as a standalone, and I suppose a reasonable case could be made for the validity of Supremacy and Ultimatum, but the last two they made were just milking the cash cow.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Even though Shirley Bassey didn't get to do the QoS theme, she will be singing a surprise Bond song a the BAFTAS. I don't know which one.

    If Daniel Craig is not present at the BAFTAS, then I will not watch the program except for the segment of Bassey's performance sometime afterward online.

    Boycott the Oscar's (it's been a long time coming).
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    I'll only be watching the BAFTAS for the Bond stuff.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Interesting to think that when Eva Green won her BAFTA in 2007, she beat Wishaw and Harris in the same category! She beat Emily Blunt and Cillian Murphy, too, which shows you the level of competition she was up against. In contrast, apart from Lashana, I've genuinely never heard of this year's nominees. Dunno if that's due to the weakness of current talent or my cluelessness!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    edited March 2022 Posts: 1,282
    Any word if DC will be there?
    I absolutely hate the Oscars back in 2013 when Adele sang a bad performance of SF and DC was nowhere to be seen. It was further proof that SF was over-marketed and overrun with shallow praise!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    That scene where Bond and Moneypenny visit Q while he's cooking....versus M, Bond, and Kincade at Skyfall manner. Which one showed more chemistry between the actors?

    Quantum of Solace was missing such a chemistry scene.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,419
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    That scene where Bond and Moneypenny visit Q while he's cooking....versus M, Bond, and Kincade at Skyfall manner. Which one showed more chemistry between the actors?

    Quantum of Solace was missing such a chemistry scene.

    I always liked the relationship between Bond and M in QOS! She was still his boss, and yet was his defender/ protector. Love the opening scene before and with Mr. White, and the hotel confrontation after Fields death. Certainly prefer this M, to the grumpy granny she became in SF!
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