Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Posts: 3,276
    RC7 wrote: »
    it's director will be helming the subsequent film and it's reasonable to assume it may be executed in a similar fashion, narratively and dramatically.
    I've been following the production/news closely, and from the looks of it SP will be a much different experience. The first three Craig Bond movies were Terence Young/Guy Hamilton. SP will probably be more Lewis Gilbert.

    Gary Powell, stunt coordinator:
    "If Skyfall was Sam Mendes' way of getting his feet wet into the Bond franchise, then this one is jumping into the deep end."
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    it's director will be helming the subsequent film and it's reasonable to assume it may be executed in a similar fashion, narratively and dramatically.
    I've been following the production/news closely, and from the looks of it SP will be a much different experience. The first three Craig Bond movies were Terence Young/Guy Hamilton. SP will probably be more Lewis Gilbert.

    Gary Powell, stunt coordinator:
    "If Skyfall was Sam Mendes' way of getting his feet wet into the Bond franchise, then this one is jumping into the deep end."

    I'm intrigued to see the balance. What Mendes does well is character. If he can mesh this with a story of real scale and not get caught up with too many interconnecting themes then it could/should be great. I really want a story I can get my teeth into.

    Have you read the leaks @Zekidk? I haven't, but I've followed to production reasonably closely. I'm getting the impression that the stunt work is being turned up a notch, more of the tropes are creeping in and the location photography is going to enhance the scale of the whole thing. I don't think the way Mendes goes about it will be vastly different, though. I still imagine there being a human story at the centre. I just hope it isn't too overwrought.
  • Posts: 3,276
    RC7 wrote: »
    I really want a story I can get my teeth into.
    Funny. That's exactly what I said to my wife, before watching SF for the first time.
    Hopefully Mendes gets this one right.
  • Posts: 1,394
    My theory on Skyfall making over a billion...

    It was the 50th anniversary hype and advertising combined with the fact that Bond is always a big box office draw.This made the film an event especially for older viewers who had been fans since 1962.It drew audiences to theaters who probably had not been in years.I happen to know an old couple for example who went to see Skyfall who had not been to the cinema since the 70s!

    The film had a very popular song which most importantly advertised the films title for a long time.

    People believed the ott critic hype of '' Its the best Bond films ever! ''.The same comment from critics which come out with every Bond film.

    Not much competition.

    A vast majority of moviegoers are stupid who dont notice how poorly written and plotted the film actually is.This also explains the ridiculous undeserved success of the likes of Pirates Of The caribbean and Transformers (etc).

    Just my opinion though.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,551
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    That's exactly right and as much as we can be accused of loving it without acknowledging it's flaws (which I don't). Those that clearly don't like it can't help but call us all idiots for liking it.

    I've been a Bond fan longer some members have been born and I'm fully aware what makes a good Bond film to me, I'm not stupid and I've had my time of being unimpressed with the series but at the moment I'm happy with what we have and can't wait for SPECTRE.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2015 Posts: 17,801
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I'm fully aware what makes a good Bond film to me, I'm not stupid


    :)) ;)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    According to one person. I wouldn't take it as gospel.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    RC7 wrote: »
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    According to one person. I wouldn't take it as gospel.

    I agree @RC7, I was just calling him out on his comment. I regret the community bit of my comment, but I leave it up to take ownership of it so to speak, rather than pretend I didn't say it. Also it appears the person who made the comment is new here, as I am, so... whatever.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    According to one person. I wouldn't take it as gospel.

    I agree @RC7, I was just calling him out on his comment. I regret the community bit of my comment, but I leave it up to take ownership of it so to speak, rather than pretend I didn't say it. Also it appears the person who made the comment is new here, as I am, so... whatever.

    He was just being reactionary. Welcome.
  • Posts: 1,394
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    Sorry! Maybe that was a bit harsh.Its certainly not my intention to insult anyone here and i respect those fans who do enjoy the film.But i often think that maybe standards have fallen given the success of many rubbish action franchises.WHY are people flocking to movies like Taken 3 for example? Didnt they learn their lesson from the awful Taken 2? Is it the brand name that attracts the movie goers and it doesnt matter how good/bad the movie is?

    I just see so many problems with a movie like Skyfall that im surprised that it doesnt get more criticism than it gets.Best Bond ever my foot!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    RC7 wrote: »
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    According to one person. I wouldn't take it as gospel.
    Yeah, look, we all like Bond movies for both similar & dissimilar reasons. I'm not fond of SF myself, but I like TMWTGG & DAD, so clearly I'm stupid. B-)
    And as a community we cannot universally agree that FRWL is the best Bond movie?

    The key here is to take all these differing opinions and just let them roll off your back like water. None of this is personal.

    Unless you dis my man Brosnan. That's just wrong. Don't even go there. [-X
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    chrisisall wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    So, just to be straight, those of us who enjoyed Skyfall are just "stupid moviegoers" who didn't notice how "poorly written and plotted the film actually [was]"?
    Fun community.

    According to one person. I wouldn't take it as gospel.
    Yeah, look, we all like Bond movies for both similar & dissimilar reasons. I'm not fond of SF myself, but I like TMWTGG & DAD, so clearly I'm stupid. B-)
    And as a community we cannot universally agree that FRWL is the best Bond movie?

    The key here is to take all these differing opinions and just let them roll off your back like water. None of this is personal.

    Unless you dis my man Brosnan. That's just wrong. Don't even go there. [-X

    You're absolutely right. I just felt like I was being called stupid; I've always been bad at forums =))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    You're absolutely right. I just felt like I was being called stupid; I've always been bad at forums =))
    I've been called stupid so many times on forums in the last decade I can't count them all. Thing of it is, sometimes it was justified... personal re-calibration is never a fun thing, but a must if we are to honestly learn about ourselves.
    Or at least try... b-(
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    My theory on Skyfall making over a billion...

    It was the 50th anniversary hype and advertising combined with the fact that Bond is always a big box office draw.This made the film an event especially for older viewers who had been fans since 1962.It drew audiences to theaters who probably had not been in years.I happen to know an old couple for example who went to see Skyfall who had not been to the cinema since the 70s!

    The film had a very popular song which most importantly advertised the films title for a long time.

    People believed the ott critic hype of '' Its the best Bond films ever! ''.The same comment from critics which come out with every Bond film.

    Not much competition.

    A vast majority of moviegoers are stupid who dont notice how poorly written and plotted the film actually is.This also explains the ridiculous undeserved success of the likes of Pirates Of The caribbean and Transformers (etc).

    Just my opinion though.

    You're definitely on to something here.

    I happen to enjoy SF immensely, as I've noted on this thread and on others. However, there's no disputing all the points you noted above in contributing to the film's eventual massive box office gross.

    It's true what you say about 'Best Bond Film ever!". I'm pretty sure I've read that before about certain Bond films that are now looked upon quite differently, so that in itself doesn't account for much.

    SF ended on an optimistic note, despite the death of M. It also had a relatively upbeat mood to it IMO, especially compared to that same year's TDKR, which was very dark and gloomy (although I enjoyed that too), and a very charismatic villain in Silva (that year's Joker). That could also have contributed to how it was received.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    bondjames wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    My theory on Skyfall making over a billion...

    It was the 50th anniversary hype and advertising combined with the fact that Bond is always a big box office draw.This made the film an event especially for older viewers who had been fans since 1962.It drew audiences to theaters who probably had not been in years.I happen to know an old couple for example who went to see Skyfall who had not been to the cinema since the 70s!

    The film had a very popular song which most importantly advertised the films title for a long time.

    People believed the ott critic hype of '' Its the best Bond films ever! ''.The same comment from critics which come out with every Bond film.

    Not much competition.

    A vast majority of moviegoers are stupid who dont notice how poorly written and plotted the film actually is.This also explains the ridiculous undeserved success of the likes of Pirates Of The caribbean and Transformers (etc).

    Just my opinion though.

    You're definitely on to something here.

    I happen to enjoy SF immensely, as I've noted on this thread and on others. However, there's no disputing all the points you noted above in contributing to the film's eventual massive box office gross.

    It's true what you say about 'Best Bond Film ever!". I'm pretty sure I've read that before about certain Bond films that are now looked upon quite differently, so that in itself doesn't account for much.

    SF ended on an optimistic note, despite the death of M. It also had a relatively upbeat mood to it IMO, especially compared to that same year's TDKR, which was very dark and gloomy (although I enjoyed that too), and a very charismatic villain in Silva (that year's Joker). That could also have contributed to how it was received.

    I'll add one:

    Craig's appearance as Bond with Queen Elizabeth in the Opening Ceremonies was nothing short of brilliant, and it propelled momentum for Skyfall in the three months or so leading up to its release.
  • Posts: 11,425
    true, the olympics moment was great advertising. but also there was very little competition wasnt there? i think 2015 will be very different and a much tougher year for Bond.

    that said, it would be churlishand stupid to pretend the film was anything other than very popular.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Getafix wrote: »
    true, the olympics moment was great advertising. but also there was very little competition wasnt there? i think 2015 will be very different and a much tougher year for Bond.

    that said, it would be churlishand stupid to pretend the film was anything other than very popular.

    Yep.It was very popular.Like Transformers 4.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    true, the olympics moment was great advertising. but also there was very little competition wasnt there? i think 2015 will be very different and a much tougher year for Bond.

    that said, it would be churlishand stupid to pretend the film was anything other than very popular.

    Yep.It was very popular.Like Transformers 4.

    Very true. I have a (cynical) friend, who's a big Batman fan, though he doesn't have very high hopes for the upcoming Batman v Superman movie. He essentially says "They've got my money"; because of his love of the character he's not going to *not* go see a Batman film. Likewise, I find it very hard to think of what would make me not go see a Bond film at this point. I assume it's the same for people who are longtime fans of the Transformers franchise. Or maybe they just like Bay's brand of filmmaking ;)
  • Posts: 11,425
    i really didnt like brosnan as bond but saw every one of his films in the cinema. but SF was on another level - it wasnt just relying on hardcore fans. it reached a much bigger audience.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,585
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    true, the olympics moment was great advertising. but also there was very little competition wasnt there? i think 2015 will be very different and a much tougher year for Bond.

    that said, it would be churlishand stupid to pretend the film was anything other than very popular.

    Yep.It was very popular.Like Transformers 4.

    Here's the problem with the Transformers 4 argument:

    Two totally different demographics. Transformers 4 (like the Fast and Furious films) appealed to 16-21 year-olds. Skyfall didn't.

    Skyfall's numbers are impressive BECAUSE of the demographic it appealed to. Young audiences (and kids) aren't typically Bond fans. And they certainly aren't Craig or Bardem fans.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @Getafix, funny thing is, as much as I like November Man, if Brozz had played Bond that dark I wouldn't have liked it. So it's not just that I don't like Craig as Bond- I don't like gritty without out-of-place absurdity. To me, a Bond movie that's not at least a bit uneven in tone is wrong somewhere. However, on MY part this is a result of a tumultuous mix of things among them being that DAF was my first Bond, and elements of nonsense got hardwired into my expectations, then the novels injected the idea of humanity & job enthusiasm waning a bit as well as a certain level of semi-realistic physical duress to be appreciated as a hurtle for the character.... so my Bond movie ratings have, like tectonic plates, been shifting with time. ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2015 Posts: 28,694
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    true, the olympics moment was great advertising. but also there was very little competition wasnt there? i think 2015 will be very different and a much tougher year for Bond.

    that said, it would be churlishand stupid to pretend the film was anything other than very popular.

    Yep.It was very popular.Like Transformers 4.

    Very true. I have a (cynical) friend, who's a big Batman fan, though he doesn't have very high hopes for the upcoming Batman v Superman movie. He essentially says "They've got my money"; because of his love of the character he's not going to *not* go see a Batman film. Likewise, I find it very hard to think of what would make me not go see a Bond film at this point. I assume it's the same for people who are longtime fans of the Transformers franchise. Or maybe they just like Bay's brand of filmmaking ;)

    Optimus Prime. It's all about Optimus Prime. He's certainly the main reason I tune in.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    TripAces wrote: »
    Skyfall's numbers are impressive BECAUSE of the demographic it appealed to. Young audiences (and kids) aren't typically Bond fans. And they certainly aren't Craig or Bardem fans.
    SPECTRE will tell if you're correct here.
    I anticipate a drop in box office for it compared with SF mainly because there will be so many espionage flicks to choose from. I think UNCLE will make 2/3 of SPECTRE's BO take simply because of it's style & lighter tone. SPECTRE will be a huge hit, but not on the order of SF, which is an anomaly IMHO.
    Get back to me at years end for either an 'I told you so' or 'you were right dude'.
    :D
  • Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Skyfall's numbers are impressive BECAUSE of the demographic it appealed to. Young audiences (and kids) aren't typically Bond fans. And they certainly aren't Craig or Bardem fans.
    SPECTRE will tell if you're correct here.
    I anticipate a drop in box office for it compared with SF mainly because there will be so many espionage flicks to choose from. I think UNCLE will make 2/3 of SPECTRE's BO take simply because of it's style & lighter tone. SPECTRE will be a huge hit, but not on the order of SF, which is an anomaly IMHO.
    Get back to me at years end for either an 'I told you so' or 'you were right dude'.
    :D

    Ooowh, I will, I surely will. Because I think..."You're SO. WRONGG.!!" (to quote Le Chiffre ;-)).

    I think the mistake here is the following. You still see "Skyfall" solely as a Bond film. But I think this was foremost a film that appealed to people because it was also a damn good film, regardless of the Bond tag. Similar to "The Dark Knight", which people also didn't see as just another Batman-film. So I foresee no real competition from other spy flicks. Especially since all other spy flicks will now premiere in the summer. Not "SPECTRE".
  • Posts: 4,617
    As normal, happy to be corrected but is their not a DC interview out there somewhere , where he says that their first aim is to make a great movie rather than make a great Bond movie. It is a little ironic that to make the big money, IMHO, you dont need to please the Bond fans as they will go and see it anyway. It is the mainstream public who can take it or leave it. If they make the decision to take, thats where the big money is. These threads are full of examples where fans have discussed their friends or kids who like Skyfall but are not massive Bond fans and you can add my wife to that. The central role of his relationship with M and the sad and emotional ending does open the film up to fans who want a more "touching" film. That's why I also see Skyfall as a future TV classic as its a more rounded film that more members of the family can enjoy. Obviously, this makes no difference to those who personally dont like the movie but I still think it deserves respect for what it managed to do.
    PS Skyfall had good viewing figures when first shown on UK TV , can anyone give the same figures for QoS and CR?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    PS Skyfall had good viewing figures when first shown on UK TV , can anyone give the same figures for QoS and CR?

    CR and QOS both pulled in around 4.5-5m viewers on their UK TV premiere. For reference GE was 13m, TND 11m and TWINE 10m. SF did 8m.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    PS Skyfall had good viewing figures when first shown on UK TV , can anyone give the same figures for QoS and CR?

    CR and QOS both pulled in around 4.5-5m viewers on their UK TV premiere. For reference GE was 13m, TND 11m and TWINE 10m. SF did 8m.

    Yes, but a lot has changed since the 1990's. DVD and BluRay sales. Hell, there's even a special "007" pay channel from Sky Movies during Bond years. Not to mention the illegal downloading. It all contributes to the figures you just mentioned. So that makes the TV figures for "Skyfall" quite impressive.
  • Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    As normal, happy to be corrected but is their not a DC interview out there somewhere , where he says that their first aim is to make a great movie rather than make a great Bond movie. It is a little ironic that to make the big money, IMHO, you dont need to please the Bond fans as they will go and see it anyway. It is the mainstream public who can take it or leave it. If they make the decision to take, thats where the big money is. These threads are full of examples where fans have discussed their friends or kids who like Skyfall but are not massive Bond fans and you can add my wife to that. The central role of his relationship with M and the sad and emotional ending does open the film up to fans who want a more "touching" film. That's why I also see Skyfall as a future TV classic as its a more rounded film that more members of the family can enjoy. Obviously, this makes no difference to those who personally dont like the movie but I still think it deserves respect for what it managed to do.
    PS Skyfall had good viewing figures when first shown on UK TV , can anyone give the same figures for QoS and CR?

    I can only do a bet with @chrisisall ;-). Because I think "SPECTRE" will again be a 1 Billion Dollar Bond film. It'll do at least $1.2 Billion globally. Now, it also depends what EXACT drop in box office figure you are talking about @chrisisall. I mean, otherwise it's pretty damn easy to be correct....or it will be pretty damn easy to have a big chance to be correct.

    Just a predicition dear lad ;-). Don't be afraid if you fail miserably :-P.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    PS Skyfall had good viewing figures when first shown on UK TV , can anyone give the same figures for QoS and CR?

    CR and QOS both pulled in around 4.5-5m viewers on their UK TV premiere. For reference GE was 13m, TND 11m and TWINE 10m. SF did 8m.

    Yes, but a lot has changed since the 1990's. DVD and BluRay sales. Hell, there's even a special "007" pay channel from Sky Movies during Bond years. Not to mention the illegal downloading. It all contributes to the figures you just mentioned. So that makes the TV figures for "Skyfall" quite impressive.

    I didn't say it wasn't. I was showing that SF was heading back towards the 90's levels.
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