Grand Finale Disappointments: What you would have fixed

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  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    DAF. We've had Blofeld set up as Bond's nemesis since around FRWL. In the beginning of OHMSS, Bond has spent a considerable time trying to track him down, verging on obsession. Not forgetting, of course, that Blowers has killed Bond's one true love. In DAF Bond start's the film on a hunt for the man who took away his one chance at happiness.

    After all this build up, when it comes to the final confrontation, Bond leaves him dangling in a rather unconvincing escape sub. Let down much?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Agreed with dublo (how could I not? ;;) ).

    Twice they tried to confront Bond with Blofeld in a 'final' battle, twice were we let down tremendously. DAF was the first attempt. By all means they might just as well have finished things off in OHMSS, when the scripting had been nearly perfect for this anyway. But... they wanted to keep Blofeld and so in DAF, a very enjoyable film but not a good one for clean 'myth building' in the 007verse, they found the wrong way of dealing with Bond's arch nemesis. Regarding what I just said about DAF, I would have in fact preferred it had they left Blofeld untouched for all eternity. After all, the best and only way to do it, is Fleming's way and I'm far from convinced that the brilliant moments in that novel would suit any film script (but I'll happily leave it to a talented screenwriter to convince me otherwise).
  • Posts: 1,856
    Why has no one mentioned TSWLM (JUST JOKING.)

    QOS compared to part 1

    Give Dominic and bond having a lot more hand 2 hand

  • Posts: 4,762
    Virage said:
    Give Dominic and bond having a lot more hand 2 hand

    I agree! That's the problem with some of the Bond final battles. There just simply isn't enough fighting, and when their is, it's much too short. QOS was a disappointment for me in the ending. What we got was great, but there needed to be MORE! Also, they should have cut out Dominic Greene's ninja screams as he swings the axe. That was a little embarrasing to watch, quite frankly.
  • Posts: 4,762
    I thought of another as I was watching Goldfinger the other day. I thought that the ending to GF was extremely rushed, and that the directors could have done better. Goldfinger just shows up on Bond's plane, has a brief chat, and then in a matter of two seconds, gets sucked out the plane window. Come on! Let's have a more epic ending than that, please! It ended much too quickly. I would have enjoyed it if Bond and Auric slugged it out for a longer period of time, in a similiar manner like the novel's ending. Also, maybe we could have had a brief tussel beforehand with that one guard that was seen laying in the floor when Bond walks towards the plane's cabin.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I was a bit upset with the QoS finale that Bond let Greene go.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I was a bit upset with the QoS finale that Bond let Greene go.
    Creasy, The great thing about Bond letting Greene go can be summed up. For me, I enjoyed the fact that Bond drives straight on, puts Greene out and throws the motor oil, sealing his fate. I like that Bond did this because you later see that Quantum punished him for his failure. You never know what really transpired, but that's the subtle magic. Besides, Greene and Bond already exchanged blows at the hotel, which was a crazy scene. I see where you are coming from though, and I know you want Craig's Bond to axe the film's central villain. QoS at its ending scenes was very much "what do you think happened", and I'm not ashamed to say that I loved that about it.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I think you're right. I think I wouldn't have had a problem with it if Craig's Bond had killed a main Bond villain previously, but the way Le Chiffre died in CR just didn't matter to me, because the entire film was amazing. I'm sure he will be dealing some death to the main villain come next year, and I'm aching to see that happen. But yes, I do see what you're saying there, and I agree. I suppose after that fight and the events that occured afterward, it would have been a bit of a climax killer if Bond followed him into the hotel outskirts of the desert and just shot him.
  • Posts: 1,894
    I also like what St. George thought up about the Renard fight! That would have been neat to see Renard die from the bullet.
    Yup, I guess for many viewers of the film, given the idea is introduced less than 20 minutes into the film, it would have been a rather obvious villain's death. But, like I said, if treated well I don't think that would have mattered; it simply would have been memorable and quite impressive. But, hey-ho, they decided to go for the nuclear rod through the guts instead... ;)
    TWINE's biggest problem is that it's really indecisive about its villain. The original screenplay really played up the elements of mystery about the plot as Bond tried to unravel the conspiracy. He didn't actually figure out that Elektra was responsible until the last half-hour or so. But then Michael Apted and his wife re-wrote the screenplay, shifting focus to Bond's relationship with Elektra. The infamous shoulder scene was brought forward (it was originally implied that Bond suspected Elektra and staged the injury) and the kidnapping of M was never included - rather, Renard psychologically tortured her by holding her responsible for everything that happened to Elektra, and using Bond to carry out part of his plans. It really played up M's maternal instincts as an achilles heel, something Renard could exploit.

    The problem with all of this is that the re-write diluted the focus on who the actual villain is. Bond shooting Elektra implied she was the brains, but Renard carrying out the plot suggested that he was.
  • Posts: 4,762
    @shadowonthesun: Yeah, I was always somewhat confused by the double-villain deal with Renard and Elektra. After a while, I just considered Elektra the main villain and Renard the henchman and called it even!
  • Posts: 1,894
    That appears to have been the original intention. And from what I have gathered about the original scipt, the film settled on one of them definitively. But all of that was lost in the re-writes.
  • Posts: 4,762
    @shadowonthesun: What a shame we couldn't have known for sure! Well, at least the movie itself screams Elektra for the main villain. However, Renard could be classified as a co-main villain or a henchman, so I guess we decide his rank. Either way, Renard was a wasted character who needed to be played up a little more.
  • Posts: 1,894
    There's a deleted scene on the Ultimate DVD that shows Renard meeting with the Cigar Boat Girl shortly after they kill the banker in Spain. It was cut because Apted didn't want to give Renard too great a presence in the film too soon. However, the original scipt had Renard as a major player in the story from the outset. Over time, his prominence waned while Elektra's presence increased concurrently. The idea was to have a seamless transition from Renard to Elektra as the Big Bad, with the bulk of the second act having Bond trying to figure things out and no apparent villain (simply because there was more than one suspect). Re-watching the film would show up all these little clues to Elektra's true intentions that were easy to miss the first time around.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Thanks for the information, @shadowonthesun! Too bad the script edits caused this much confusion.
  • The finale of TWINE isnt disappointing...its retarded!

    Renard opens up a nuclear reactor, for gods sake! Everyone on board would have been irradiated, Bond and Renard would have melted from the heat...in fact, it would have been so hot in the Reactor Compartment that neither man would have lived long enough to open the damn thing, let alone raise a finger in anger.
  • edited July 2011 Posts: 99
    I was a bit upset with the QoS finale that Bond let Greene go.
    Creasy, The great thing about Bond letting Greene go can be summed up. For me, I enjoyed the fact that Bond drives straight on, puts Greene out and throws the motor oil, sealing his fate. I like that Bond did this because you later see that Quantum punished him for his failure. You never know what really transpired, but that's the subtle magic. Besides, Greene and Bond already exchanged blows at the hotel, which was a crazy scene. I see where you are coming from though, and I know you want Craig's Bond to axe the film's central villain. QoS at its ending scenes was very much "what do you think happened", and I'm not ashamed to say that I loved that about it.


    Leaving DG alone and injured in the desert with no hope of rescue or survival is a much colder and deadly action than merely executing him. JB got what he needed from DG, regarding Quantum and left him to suffer in an inhospitable environment. Bond had suffered with the loss of the woman he loved, this was part one of his revenge on the architects of his pain (Yusef being part 2) and would ultimately prove to be a far more satisfying act of closure than just shooting him.

    Bond drove away knowing DG would die...but die slowly and horribly or even at the hands of his own people if they found him, which ultimately happened.
  • Posts: 4,762
    @Mr_Sterling: Nice post! I agree. 007 would have been merciful if he shot Greene, which is most likely what Greene was expecting. This way, he can have some satisfaction repaying the torture he's endured so far from Quantum.
  • Posts: 4,762
    As I was watching Moonraker the other day, I realized that the laser battle finale is much too brief in comparison to its predecessor's finale aboard the Liparus. I would have liked to have seen more of Bond in action with the US Space Marines; in the movie, there's too many mindless explosions going off and debris flying around everywhere, and not enough focus on Bond doing what Bond does best. And, of course, I would have preferred for Jaws to remain a villain, and for him and Bond to have a final hand-to-hand duel aboard the space station following Bond's airlock ejection of Drax.
  • Posts: 2,341
    TWINE
    Electra's death. I always struggle with this one. She was the main villainess and should have been killed after Renaud. After disposing of Renaud, Bond should have come back and faced Electra.
    They could have had something of a fight with Electra wielding a knife or some weapon and Bond pushes her out the window and she falls to her death like the finale in "Play Misty for Me".
    Bond villians live extraordinary lives and should die extraordinary deaths, not just the merciful bullet.
    (But this way Brosnan would not have been able to have his necro thing with her corpse)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Birdleson wrote:
    After a pretty fine hour and 45 minutes we get a snooze-fest in Scotland, culminating in a BS main villain death.
    Oh, you just don't like it because it's not that great. You must learn to lower your expectations to the level of the general public.
    ;)
  • Posts: 4,762
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    TWINE
    Electra's death. I always struggle with this one. She was the main villainess and should have been killed after Renaud. After disposing of Renaud, Bond should have come back and faced Electra.
    They could have had something of a fight with Electra wielding a knife or some weapon and Bond pushes her out the window and she falls to her death like the finale in "Play Misty for Me".
    Bond villians live extraordinary lives and should die extraordinary deaths, not just the merciful bullet.
    (But this way Brosnan would not have been able to have his necro thing with her corpse)

    See, I think it's better that Elektra was shot- with a quick bullet to the chest, we see that Bond had to make a swift decision as to whether or not she carried out her villainy any further. I believe that she had made him doubt his own ability to finish the mission accordingly, simply because they'd been "involved" with one another, and so by shooting her, Bond was proving to himself that she was not getting inside his head, as well as proving to her that he was in control of the situation, not her. Also, by killing Elektra before Renard, we see how dedicated Renard is to the mission, as well as how deep his devotion to Elektra was. He had nothing to live for once Bond shot her, and yet he continued on with the assignment anyway. I've always thought that was a smart move on the director's behalf, and pretty clever.
  • OP the plane fight qas so phony!

    DAD I just wanted to leave the theater aftrr the noisy phony Zao bumper cart fight, the plane fight was also dragged out....oops, one parachute!

    GE the satellite dish fight even got Martin Campbell wondering according to an interview...how many times can Bond actually save the world?

    DAF...just upset no sort of acknowledgement that Bond wanted to finish Blofeld for his wife...it's no wonder even Connery couldn't stand Cubby.

    GF, the plane fight was silly. It made the film turn into a tv-movie quality.

    TND, how could Carver not know an engine was coming from behind? And his henchman was not medically capable of withstanding all that he went through.

    AVTAK, they wasted Christopher Walken.

  • 00Beast wrote:
    @Mr_Sterling: Nice post! I agree. 007 would have been merciful if he shot Greene, which is most likely what Greene was expecting. This way, he can have some satisfaction repaying the torture he's endured so far from Quantum.


    The highlight was that he had Greene suffer and knew he'd die anyway. No need to have had him crushed by a satellite.
  • Posts: 4,762
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!

    DAD I just wanted to leave the theater aftrr the noisy phony Zao bumper cart fight, the plane fight was also dragged out....oops, one parachute!

    GE the satellite dish fight even got Martin Campbell wondering according to an interview...how many times can Bond actually save the world?

    DAF...just upset no sort of acknowledgement that Bond wanted to finish Blofeld for his wife...it's no wonder even Connery couldn't stand Cubby.

    GF, the plane fight was silly. It made the film turn into a tv-movie quality.

    TND, how could Carver not know an engine was coming from behind? And his henchman was not medically capable of withstanding all that he went through.

    AVTAK, they wasted Christopher Walken.

    I agree in regards to OP, DAF, and DAD. As for the other three, I think they're some of the finest finales the series has to offer! For OP, what gets me is that Gobinda falls off of the plane merely because he gets whacked in the face with a small antenna. The moviemakers spent so much screentime comparing Gobinda to the likes of Oddjob and Jaws, capable of withstanding nearly anything, and then he ends up falling to his death because Bond slapped him on the nose with an antenna. Personally, I would have been more satisfied with Bond entering the plane from the outside and duking it out with Gobinda inside the plane, ending with Bond kicking the giant Indian out of the plane- that would have added both a heightened sense of action and a more honorable death for a very worthy henchman. As for DAF, well, there is an entire list of scrapped possibilities for the finale floating around somewhere- one of the members brought it to our attention in a DAF-related discussion years ago, and I must say that all of those possibilities were far better than what we ended up with. The DAF finale is almost tragic in how wasted it was. Such potential thrown away and trampled on! As for DAD, it's really fairly entertaining, and I have little qualms about it other than the heavy use of over-the-line-cheesy puns from Gustav Graves, and even a few from Miranda Frost, unfortunately. I also don't like the concept of Jinx killing Frost- that was supposed to be Bond's kill. Frost betrayed him and caused him to spend 14 months in a North Korean torture facility. He should have been given the opportunity to shoot her, at the very least.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    going in order of the films released..

    1. OHMSS - something about the bobsleding sequence always bothered me - maybe it was how goofy both Bond and Blofeld look in helmet and goggles lol - i dont know, it seemed a bit absurd to me... "i have an entire army of guys with guns and helicopters coming after me, including my nemesis James Bond - but, safety first.."...... i think it would've been a little cooler to see them fighting in his mountain base as stuff is exploding around them - which maybe leads to a fight out on a helicopter platform - i dont know......

    2. DAF - it's Bond vs. Blofeld III, but the personal edge to this fight has been zapped by the script completely whitewashing the events of OHMSS.. and Bond simply bashing Blofeld into his control room building with the crane, and then diving to safety always seemed stupid to me..

    3. LALD - not Bond and Kananga, but Bond vs Baron Samedi.... such an interesting unique villain, only to taken out with an upper cut like in Mike Tyson's PUNCH OUT, then landing in a coffin of snakes.................. wow..................

    4. TWINE - I definitely expected more from the fight between Bond and a man who feels absolutely no pain (except for a broken heart - tee hee hee!!)... but between terrible puns "welcome to my nuclear family" - terrible fighting (notice when Bond and Renard start to choke each other, their hands are not clasped around their necks - it looks like terrible professional wrestling) - and, Brozzer's pain face just to add insult to injury..... i just felt really underwhelmed.......... i remember reading the book written by Benson before going to see the movie, and i thought the fight was much better in book than in the film.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!
    You'd almost never see that type of stunt being performed in today's CGI wasteland.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    pachazo wrote:
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!
    You'd almost never see that type of stunt being performed in today's CGI wasteland.

    Agreed. Some of the shots in this sequence are breathtaking.

    I always see Octopussy as having three mini finales; the Circus finale (foiling Orlov's plot), the raid on Kamal Khan's palace, and the finale on (and outside) the plane.
  • Posts: 4,762
    pachazo wrote:
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!
    You'd almost never see that type of stunt being performed in today's CGI wasteland.

    Agreed. Some of the shots in this sequence are breathtaking.

    I always see Octopussy as having three mini finales; the Circus finale (foiling Orlov's plot), the raid on Kamal Khan's palace, and the finale on (and outside) the plane.

    That's what I love about OP- just when you think the action is finished, it comes back for more!
  • pachazo wrote:
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!
    You'd almost never see that type of stunt being performed in today's CGI wasteland.

    Agreed. Some of the shots in this sequence are breathtaking.

    I always see Octopussy as having three mini finales; the Circus finale (foiling Orlov's plot), the raid on Kamal Khan's palace, and the finale on (and outside) the plane.

    It was OTT

    Plus DAD tried doing that with 3 villain deaths, and look how that turned out.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited March 2014 Posts: 5,080
    pachazo wrote:
    OP the plane fight qas so phony!
    You'd almost never see that type of stunt being performed in today's CGI wasteland.

    Agreed. Some of the shots in this sequence are breathtaking.

    I always see Octopussy as having three mini finales; the Circus finale (foiling Orlov's plot), the raid on Kamal Khan's palace, and the finale on (and outside) the plane.

    It was OTT

    Plus DAD tried doing that with 3 villain deaths, and look how that turned out.

    I really beg to differ. IMO, Octopussy has one of the most satisfying finales in the franchise.
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