Campbell disses QOS

Comments

• BAIN123

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  He's right though. QoS was pretty lousy - especially compared to GE and CR.
  
  And he DOES understand Bond. He's directed 2 of the best entries in the series.
• DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718

  What on earth are you talking about, boldinger ?? Campbell directed 2 of the last 6 outings, don't you think he's more qualified than anyone of us here ?? 8-X So a 2-time Bond director doesn't understand Bond ? What a load of nonsense. Totally untrue. Just because he disses a Bond outing you happen to like, doesn't mean he 'doesn't understand things' as well as you do... Talk about fanboyish post.
• DarthDimi Behind you!Moderator

  June 2011 Posts: 24,183

  Campbell directed two of the very best Bonds ever or at least of the past two decades. Reception to both films was highly positive, compared to TND's and QOS's being only lukewarm.
  
  A few examples:
  
  imdb appreciation

  • GE: 7.1
    
  • TND: 6.4
    
  • CR: 8.0
    
  • QOS: 6.8
    

  rotten tomatoes appreciation

  • GE: 80%
    
  • TND: 55%
    
  • CR: 94%
    
  • QOS: 64%
    

  metacritic appreciation

  • GE: 65%
    
  • TND: 56%
    
  • CR: 81%
    
  • QOS: 58%
    

  Looks like Campbell's films are dearly loved all over the globe, @boldfinger, whereas each successor faced a score drop which in QOS's case is rather harsh sometimes.
• BAIN123

  June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  It's also interesting to note that bothTND and QoS were quite troubled productions.
• dragonsky

  June 2011 Posts: 2,491

  hm this is 1st time i am hearing about metacritis
  and yeah he is right QoS was one of the worse Bond movies,it had potential but i dont know how they ruined it
• thelordflasheart

  June 2011 Posts: 1,370

  What on earth are you talking about, boldinger ?? Campbell directed 2 of the last 6 outings, don't you think he's more qualified than anyone of us here ?? 8-X So a 2-time Bond director doesn't understand Bond ? What a load of nonsense. Totally untrue. Just because he disses a Bond outing you happen to like, doesn't mean he 'doesn't understand things' as well as you do... Talk about fanboyish post.

  Something that I notice as common on the internet is that when you don't like something that someone else does, a defensive reaction is to say that the reason you don't like it is that you don't "get it". But hey, all opinions are valid.
  
  I wouldn't say that QoS was "lousy" but I thought it was very over-directed. I think that CR is a great example of how you can make a Bond film that is visually interesting but still easy to follow. There are so many little things that Campbell did that make the film more dynamic - for example, when Bond jumps out the embassy window in the "Madagascar chase" the camera pushes forward with him. A small thing, but it makes the action more exciting because the audience is part of it. Same with the interesting angle when Bond jumps out of the bulldozer with the sun in the shot, or the two-level shots of Bond and the bomber (on the lift and the elevator, respectively) that show what each one is doing and how they're mirroring each other yet using different techniques. Or the wonderfully panoramic helicopter shot around the crane that gives the sense of scope to the fight before the close-ups.
  
  I read an interview with Foster (perhaps here) where he explained the *ideas* behind a lot of his decisions. Quite frankly, I found them pretentious. He wanted Bond to have action scenes based on all four elements: earth, air, fire, water. Umm, okay...but *why*? He wanted the action scenes to be edited in a confusing way in the beginning to mirror the idea that Bond doesn't understand what is going on in the beginning of the film. Interesting idea, but you can make the audience feel that they don't understand what is going on in the plot *without* making them check out of an action scene because they can't tell what's going on! Kudos for trying something new, but remember that the first obligation you have is to provide the audience with a good story and film. Once you've established that you're doing that THEN you can start tweaking things to make it more interesting.
  
  
• BAIN123

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  This is the rest of those comments from that interview:
  
  Crave Online: Why didn’t you like it? Were there themes from Casino Royale you were hoping they’d pick up on?
  
  Martin Campbell: No, I just thought the story was pretty uninteresting. I didn’t think the action was related to the characters. I just thought overall it was a bit of a mess really.
  
  
  To be honest he does have a point. The action and story seemed to be jumping back and fourth throughout the film. The threat wasn't substancial enough and the action scenes did seem rather filler and murky when compared to Royale. It's difficult to explain but where Royale had the genuinely exciting chase scenes at Madagascar and Miami airport, Solace's action scenes seemed fairly...underwelming by comparison.
  
  I think at its heart what it lacked was a solid, complete story. The script was re-written several times and the final draft was handed in just before the writers strike began in 2008. The film didn't feel finished and had resolved little by the time it ended.
• j7wild Suspended

  June 2011 Posts: 823

  I think QoS script was rushed out to capitalize on the Crappy Inferior Bourne franchise
• lechero

  June 2011 Posts: 161

  QOS certainly was a troubled outing, but it's still highly enjoyable.
  Campbell should focus on his own post-Bond work. Edge of Darkness was mediocre at best, and judging from the trailers, Green Lantern does not look very promising.
• BAIN123

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  Campbell, I agree, has had a rather hit-and-miss career outside of Bond (Zorro vs Edge of Darkness which wasn't that great). However no one can doubt his legacy in the world of 007. I think he is perfectly entitled to voice his views on other entries - especially when the reporter ASKS HIM FIRST.
• boldfinger

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 5,767

  What on earth are you talking about, boldinger ?? Campbell directed 2 of the last 6 outings, don't you think he's more qualified than anyone of us here ?? 8-X So a 2-time Bond director doesn't understand Bond ? What a load of nonsense. Totally untrue. Just because he disses a Bond outing you happen to like, doesn't mean he 'doesn't understand things' as well as you do... Talk about fanboyish post.

  I didn´t say he doesn´t understand Bond. But to say QOS is ´a mess´ and ´lousy´ makes me think he didn´t understand the film. I doubt very much that Campbell would say the same had the film had a warmer reception.
  
  And, no, definitely no, DC007, having directed 2 of the last 6 Bond films doesn´t qualify Campbell more than any of us here to judge any of the Bond films.
  
  
• DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 15,718

  But to say QOS is ´a mess´ and ´lousy´ makes me think he didn´t understand the film

  Why, because having a different opinion than yours on QOS means he didn't understand the film ?? I thought QOS was a mess, lousy, pathetic, boring, unmemorable... Do I also not understand the film ?
  
• boldfinger

  June 2011 Posts: 5,767

  But to say QOS is ´a mess´ and ´lousy´ makes me think he didn´t understand the film

  Why, because having a different opinion than yours on QOS means he didn't understand the film ?? I thought QOS was a mess, lousy, pathetic, boring, unmemorable... Do I also not understand the film ?
  

  Look, I´m merely of the opinion that someone who did two Bonds shouldn´t act as uncourteously as if he was offended that Forster did something Campbell didn´t intend. It´s not as if GE or CR were perfect Bond films, quite the opposite, they both took huge liberty in defining Bond, compared to the until then established character. Nevertheless, they were good films, but so is QOS, at least in my book.
• DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."

  June 2011 Posts: 15,718

  But to say QOS is ´a mess´ and ´lousy´ makes me think he didn´t understand the film

  Why, because having a different opinion than yours on QOS means he didn't understand the film ?? I thought QOS was a mess, lousy, pathetic, boring, unmemorable... Do I also not understand the film ?
  

  Look, I´m merely of the opinion that someone who did two Bonds shouldn´t act as uncourteously as if he was offended that Forster did something Campbell didn´t intend. It´s not as if GE or CR were perfect Bond films, quite the opposite, they both took huge liberty in defining Bond, compared to the until then established character. Nevertheless, they were good films, but so is QOS, at least in my book.

  You didn't answer the question - because Campbell doesn't follow your opinion on QOS, he doesn't understands the film ??
  
• BAIN123

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  I think the fact Campbell has directed 2 of the most successful entries of the series does qualify him more than us. As a professional filmaker he has had first hand experience in telling a story and filming action.
  
  Also, its not just him that has called the film "a mess". Critics have and so have A LOT of fans. If you like it and disagree with Campbell that's fine - the film seems to have divided people.
  
  
• Samuel001 Moderator

  June 2011 Posts: 13,355

  I do get the feeling, Campbell thinks his films are some kind of holy grail in the Bond series and although he's entitled to his opinion, I could criticise GoldenEye and Casino Royale just as much. Hell, for me, at least Quantum Of Solace presented an attempt at something new for the series in style and how the story is told, unlike his by-the-numbers films.
• BAIN123

  June 2011 Posts: 11,189

  I'd prefer a "by-the-numbers" Bond film that's at least entertaining than one that's pretentious, lacks identity and tries too hard to be different.
• Virage

  June 2011 Posts: 1,856

  Correct Mr cambell
• Samuel001 Moderator

  June 2011 edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355

  Also, its not just him that has called the film "a mess". Critics have and so have A LOT of fans. If you like it and disagree with Campbell that's fine - the film seems to have divided people.

  That's fine but if he holds the series in such high regard, I thought he would at least elaborated on what he thoght was so bad about it. He comes across in the interview as something who calls something bad but actually has no idea what he didn't like about it. Though of course, I know that unlikely to be the case.

  I'd prefer a "by-the-numbers" Bond film that's at least entertaining than one that's pretentious, lacks identity and tries too hard to be different.

  Me too, though through it's style Quantum Of Solace sure has identity.
• boldfinger

  June 2011 Posts: 5,767

  But to say QOS is ´a mess´ and ´lousy´ makes me think he didn´t understand the film

  Why, because having a different opinion than yours on QOS means he didn't understand the film ?? I thought QOS was a mess, lousy, pathetic, boring, unmemorable... Do I also not understand the film ?
  

  Look, I´m merely of the opinion that someone who did two Bonds shouldn´t act as uncourteously as if he was offended that Forster did something Campbell didn´t intend. It´s not as if GE or CR were perfect Bond films, quite the opposite, they both took huge liberty in defining Bond, compared to the until then established character. Nevertheless, they were good films, but so is QOS, at least in my book.

  You didn't answer the question - because Campbell doesn't follow your opinion on QOS, he doesn't understands the film ??
  

  I never put it that way.
  I find nothing lousy or messy about QOS, so, assuming Campbell knows more about it than me (which I doubt, because as he is a professional filmmaker, so am I a passionate film watcher), then all the more so should he be able to detect certain good qualities in it, even if he should hate the film.
  
  
• thelordflasheart

  June 2011 Posts: 1,370

  Samuel - it's entirely possible that he did elaborate on it and the newspaper and or editor didn't include it. Or more likely that he gave a brief answer because the time for questions is limited in an interview and he wanted to stick with Green Lantern (any pre-release interview with a director is for the explicit interest in building excitement for a project - a sales job, if you will - and what you never see or read about is how there is often a studio rep or publicist guiding the conversation back to the film at hand).
  
  Campbell likely knows exactly *why* he didn't like QoS. His life and career are dedicated to filmmaking so he understands very well what he *thinks* works and doesn't work. As was pointed out, given the critical (and popular) response to QoS it's hardly as if his views are outside the mainstream. I'm not a restaurant chef but I'm perfectly entitled to have an opinion about the food I order; in the same vein we are perfectly entitled to have opinions about the films that we watch. However, a good director may have a better appreciation of *why* something doesn't work for a lot of people and can break it down in more textbook-like terms. Whereas I might have a "like/dislike" gut reaction, a director - or editor - can probably think "Oh, the sense of space wasn't clearly defined because of the poor depth of field because of the lens choice which is why the action comes off as less potent leading to less excitement when etc..."
  
  Also, I've never read anything that leads me to conclude that Campbell "thinks his films are some sort of holy grail in the Bond series" like you say. Is there an interview that you could point me to that supports this? It sounds to me like you're reading things into what Campbell said because he dissed a film that you (perhaps) really like and your reaction may be a little more emotional than intellectual. I'm not saying this to make you feel criticised - I mean it as someone who is looking at this from the outside.
  
  
• MajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator

  June 2011 Posts: 13,978

  I agree with Campbell, but at the same time, his two Bonds are far from the best IMHO.
• boldfinger

  June 2011 Posts: 5,767

  It sounds to me like you're reading things into what Campbell said because he dissed a film that you (perhaps) really like and your reaction may be a little more emotional than intellectual.

  I appreciate much of what you say, thelordflashheart, but Campbell´s remarks about QOS come across as exactly what you describe above: as a little more emotional than intellectual. Of course, many people in that business get quoted only in fragments, but this is not the first time Campbell has made a similar remark, and as a professional he should know how such remarks will be used, which leads to the conclusion that he was fully aware of his words´ effect, regardless of what else he may have said.
  
  
• PrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur

  June 2011 Posts: 3,262

  Crave Online: What do you think of the way they’ve taken the Bond series after Casino Royale with Quantum of Solace?
  
  Martin Campbell: Oh, I thought it was lousy. And hopefully this next one will be terrific. Sam Mendes is directing it and I’m sure it’ll be terrific.

  Spot on, Campbell, even though I find GE a bit overrated and not nearly as good as CR. However, GE is FRWL quality compared to QOS.
  
• JamesStock

  June 2011 Posts: 572

  While I think most people here would agree with Campbell, I think it was unwise to make those comments. As is everyone (including boldfinger, folks), he is entitled to his opinion, however, he's not doing anyone nor himself favors by making negative comments of other's work (publicly). In my opinion, he's inviting other directors to criticize his work. I don't know...it just seems careless and tactless.
• SuitedBond

  June 2011 Posts: 11

  I'm not a fan of Martin Campbell's style, especially not in GoldenEye. But Marc Forster, who has directed some great movies, completely failed at Bond. Why? Because he doesn't do action movies, so he copied others were doing at the time. I was hoping he would bring to Bond what he has brought to other films, but he left that all behind. Sam Mendes isn't an action movie director either, but I hope he doesn't try to be one like Forster did. Bond needs a director who can make a movie exciting without too many action sequences.
• JamesStock

  June 2011 Posts: 572

  I remember Wilson & Broccoli saying that they wanted this one to be full of action and I remember thinking, "Why?" Was it really a Forster thing or might the writers/producers/someone else also had some input that negatively impacted the film?
• 00Beast

  June 2011 Posts: 4,762

  I'd have to agree with Martin Campbell. QOS was a lousy, pathetic Bond movie. For a direct sequal to CR, it failed to provide the same pulse-pounding story, character development, dialogue, and one of the more important aspects, the villains. Dominic Greene is no match for Le Chiffre. Also, the camera work in QOS was absolutely horrifying! It butchered what would have otherwise been fairly entertaining action scenes.
• Greg

  June 2011 Posts: 3

  Campbell directed two of the very best Bonds ever or at least of the past two decades. Reception to both films was highly positive, compared to TND's and QOS's being only lukewarm.
  
  A few examples:
  
  imdb appreciation

  • GE: 7.1
    
  • TND: 6.4
    
  • CR: 8.0
    
  • QOS: 6.8
    

  rotten tomatoes appreciation

  • GE: 80%
    
  • TND: 55%
    
  • CR: 94%
    
  • QOS: 64%
    

  metacritic appreciation

  • GE: 65%
    
  • TND: 56%
    
  • CR: 81%
    
  • QOS: 58%
    

  Looks like Campbell's films are dearly loved all over the globe, @boldfinger, whereas each successor faced a score drop which in QOS's case is rather harsh sometimes.

  
  dude you nailed it
  
• Greg

  June 2011 Posts: 3

  Also the problem with Quantum for me was the fact that they made Bond unbelievable. I am talking about jumping out of an airplane and crash landing to the ground and then NOBODY mentions that again?
  
  any thoughts?