"Did i overcomplicate the plot ?" - Skyfall Appreciation & Discussion

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  • Posts: 1,916
    I like SF a lot, even love it for most parts. Nevertheless I have to ask: Isn't the car chase in the beginning very underwhelming? Too slow to even call it a chase? It works fine as a build-up for the action coming afterwords but the car action itself is a bit unexciting.
    And the fact that Patrice is still right before him (in his car) when Bond walks out of the house is a strange coincidence that bothers me much much more than the discussion about the perfect timed explosion in the tube.

    I don't even consider it a car chase. It ends before it starts IMO; but that's not a complaint about the PTS overall, like you said it functions well as a build up, and a component, of the scene overall.

    Never thought about the timing of Patrice in his vehicle as Bond leaves the building. Sometimes I'm glad I don't view Bond films with an overly critical mindset; what torture it must be. ;)

    I think you've hit on an important point of discussion. In a Moore film or certain others this can be more forgivable, but for a critical darling like SF I think there is an argument that, like the timed tube crash, it should be taken into account it is distracting as an overall experience. I feel that PTS is a mess and doesn't get the film off on a good note for me. But since it's SF, that's okay for others.
  • quantumspectrequantumspectre argentina
    Posts: 61
    since the first time ive watched this movie i know the tone will be somber and darker. so besides some plot weird things(bond killing the girl in the island,Q being not so smart that he infects the mi6 tech)i like the fact that this movie shows a bond that needs to be enough smart to know how to fight and to shot, is not a movie about tech and gadgets, is the opposite.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Just wanted to say I watched SF the day before I watched NTTD and...

    SF truly is a brilliant Bond film. Put a traditional gunbarrel at the start, and it's a downright perfect one.

    For me, that is.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Univex wrote: »
    Just wanted to say I watched SF the day before I watched NTTD and...

    SF truly is a brilliant Bond film. Put a traditional gunbarrel at the start, and it's a downright perfect one.

    For me, that is.

    It would be fun to make a fan edit, if I had the first idea how to do that.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    A question for people, a bit of a complicated one, does anyone know (realistically) what would have happened after Bond's supposed death? Obviously, M wrote his obituary, but how would that have worked with an MI6 agent? Would that obituary have been something public? Would they have given Bond a funeral and would that have been something known about? Also, once it's revealed he's alive, what would've happened to the obituary? Odd questions to ask but there is a reason I'd like to figure out this stuff :)
  • Posts: 2,159
    Denbigh wrote: »
    A question for people, a bit of a complicated one, does anyone know (realistically) what would have happened after Bond's supposed death? Obviously, M wrote his obituary, but how would that have worked with an MI6 agent? Would that obituary have been something public? Would they have given Bond a funeral and would that have been something known about? Also, once it's revealed he's alive, what would've happened to the obituary? Odd questions to ask but there is a reason I'd like to figure out this stuff :)

    Well military obituaries are still published in Newspapers, even today (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/military/) so it would been public. Though I doubt it would've directly named him as a 00, more like “a naval officer”.

    Given the three month time jump between the titles, M was only then writing his obituary, meaning they spent three months trying to find him. Given he turns up that evening, the obituary was probably never published, and no funeral or remembrance required.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Mallory wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    A question for people, a bit of a complicated one, does anyone know (realistically) what would have happened after Bond's supposed death? Obviously, M wrote his obituary, but how would that have worked with an MI6 agent? Would that obituary have been something public? Would they have given Bond a funeral and would that have been something known about? Also, once it's revealed he's alive, what would've happened to the obituary? Odd questions to ask but there is a reason I'd like to figure out this stuff :)

    Well military obituaries are still published in Newspapers, even today (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/military/) so it would been public. Though I doubt it would've directly named him as a 00, more like “a naval officer”.

    Given the three month time jump between the titles, M was only then writing his obituary, meaning they spent three months trying to find him. Given he turns up that evening, the obituary was probably never published, and no funeral or remembrance required.
    Ah ok, very interesting. Thanks for that @Mallory, appreciate it :)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,351
    Mallory wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    A question for people, a bit of a complicated one, does anyone know (realistically) what would have happened after Bond's supposed death? Obviously, M wrote his obituary, but how would that have worked with an MI6 agent? Would that obituary have been something public? Would they have given Bond a funeral and would that have been something known about? Also, once it's revealed he's alive, what would've happened to the obituary? Odd questions to ask but there is a reason I'd like to figure out this stuff :)

    Well military obituaries are still published in Newspapers, even today (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/military/) so it would been public. Though I doubt it would've directly named him as a 00, more like “a naval officer”.

    Given the three month time jump between the titles, M was only then writing his obituary, meaning they spent three months trying to find him. Given he turns up that evening, the obituary was probably never published, and no funeral or remembrance required.

    Never considered that, but doesn't it seem strange that they sold his appartment and put all of his stuff into storage, but she only got around to writing his obituary months later?

    Edit: I will also use this spot to renew my wish for a TV show following the lives of normal MI6 clerks during the time Skyfall takes place.
    The NOC list is gone and one of our top agents is dead. We have to sell his flat and put his old stuff in storage.
    HQ blows up and we have to move all of this.
    Bond is back. Who has the key to his lock-up?
    Also, didn't Jeremy say, Bond completely fail his evaluations? Why is he back in the field?
    Oh, they are about to bring a high-value prisoner in. Better clean that glass cell...
    Oh crap, everything is getting hacked. Did M click on a link again?
    M is dead and we have to figure out how to reimburse a billionaire from Texas, who bought that old house in Scotland one of our agents blew up.
    And we have to move again, so new M can have a fancy office...
  • Posts: 1,394
    I will just leave this here 😅

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Skyfall is simply incredible. Like Goldfinger, it's a terrific standalone title that defines its era well, and both are constantly accused of being overrated. Skyfall is #2 in my rankings, second to only Casino Royale. I can't really expect Bond 24 to be as great, since SF is so high up in my rankings. The PTS is fantastic, Silva is an excellent villain, Craig is reliable as Bond, Judi Dench gives her best (and most in-depth) performance as M, and the entire last stretch of the film blew me away. You had great scenes in the first half like Bond's encounter with Patrice in Shanghai and the introduction to Silva, but the last 40 minutes were the best for me. The isolation of Bond, M, and Kincade at Skyfall waiting for Silva to arrive was so ominous, yet almost peaceful (seeing as it was so much more quiet than we're used to in a Bond film). I just love the last few scenes at the estate; the chemistry between Craig and Dench, the quiet scenes, the intense assault and blow-up of the estate, and the final scene between Silva, Bond, and M. A very well-done film, not at all overrated (to me). For these reasons and more, Skyfall will forever remain one of my all-time favorite Bond films.

    This is very well said. I give it a 9.8 out of 10. My only knock is the Komodo Dragons and fight scene at the Casino. The first part of the casino scene is magnificent. The latter half, always makes me cringe some. Having Daniel Craig do those goofy facial expressions, not good. Remove a few of the gag spots and you have a 10/10. I rate Skyfall number 3 overall for me. It’s a classic Bond film. Bond standing tall on top of MI6 with the Union Jacks flying is one of the best scenes of the entire franchise.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Skyfall is simply incredible. Like Goldfinger, it's a terrific standalone title that defines its era well, and both are constantly accused of being overrated. Skyfall is #2 in my rankings, second to only Casino Royale. I can't really expect Bond 24 to be as great, since SF is so high up in my rankings. The PTS is fantastic, Silva is an excellent villain, Craig is reliable as Bond, Judi Dench gives her best (and most in-depth) performance as M, and the entire last stretch of the film blew me away. You had great scenes in the first half like Bond's encounter with Patrice in Shanghai and the introduction to Silva, but the last 40 minutes were the best for me. The isolation of Bond, M, and Kincade at Skyfall waiting for Silva to arrive was so ominous, yet almost peaceful (seeing as it was so much more quiet than we're used to in a Bond film). I just love the last few scenes at the estate; the chemistry between Craig and Dench, the quiet scenes, the intense assault and blow-up of the estate, and the final scene between Silva, Bond, and M. A very well-done film, not at all overrated (to me). For these reasons and more, Skyfall will forever remain one of my all-time favorite Bond films.

    This is very well said. I give it a 9.8 out of 10. My only knock is the Komodo Dragons and fight scene at the Casino. The first part of the casino scene is magnificent. The latter half, always makes me cringe some. Having Daniel Craig do those goofy facial expressions, not good. Remove a few of the gag spots and you have a 10/10. I rate Skyfall number 3 overall for me. It’s a classic Bond film. Bond standing tall on top of MI6 with the Union Jacks flying is one of the best scenes of the entire franchise.

    100%, I love that ending as well. I actually don't mind the Komodo Dragons scene to be honest.
  • Posts: 526
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Skyfall is simply incredible. Like Goldfinger, it's a terrific standalone title that defines its era well, and both are constantly accused of being overrated. Skyfall is #2 in my rankings, second to only Casino Royale. I can't really expect Bond 24 to be as great, since SF is so high up in my rankings. The PTS is fantastic, Silva is an excellent villain, Craig is reliable as Bond, Judi Dench gives her best (and most in-depth) performance as M, and the entire last stretch of the film blew me away. You had great scenes in the first half like Bond's encounter with Patrice in Shanghai and the introduction to Silva, but the last 40 minutes were the best for me. The isolation of Bond, M, and Kincade at Skyfall waiting for Silva to arrive was so ominous, yet almost peaceful (seeing as it was so much more quiet than we're used to in a Bond film). I just love the last few scenes at the estate; the chemistry between Craig and Dench, the quiet scenes, the intense assault and blow-up of the estate, and the final scene between Silva, Bond, and M. A very well-done film, not at all overrated (to me). For these reasons and more, Skyfall will forever remain one of my all-time favorite Bond films.

    This is very well said. I give it a 9.8 out of 10. My only knock is the Komodo Dragons and fight scene at the Casino. The first part of the casino scene is magnificent. The latter half, always makes me cringe some. Having Daniel Craig do those goofy facial expressions, not good. Remove a few of the gag spots and you have a 10/10. I rate Skyfall number 3 overall for me. It’s a classic Bond film. Bond standing tall on top of MI6 with the Union Jacks flying is one of the best scenes of the entire franchise.

    100%, I love that ending as well. I actually don't mind the Komodo Dragons scene to be honest.

    I wish it didn’t bother me. Because I enjoy the film so much otherwise. And I’m nitpicking. The scene at the beach bar with the scorpion and shot glass is awesome. I love when Bond twirls his finger in the air like “let’s do it again.” Then his acting when mi6 blows up, and he sees it. You know it’s about to hit the fan. I remember getting chills I’m the theatre when this happened. Does he act like he puts money in the box, but actually doesn’t? I think he does, but not sure.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    He puts money in which box?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    He puts money in which box?

    When he is paying for his drink the next morning. He flashes some bills, leans over, places them somewhere (a box?), and then grabs a bottle.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Ah, yeah. I think he gives the money to the bar, I see no reason why he wouldn't have.
  • Posts: 526
    Right. But watch the scene close...it looks like he acts as if he puts it in, but I don’t think he does (because he doesn’t have a lot of $?). I think he holds on to the cash and keeps it. I get the impression that he does it because drinking is an expensive habit lol. I could be completely wrong, but I’ve always wondered about it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Right. But watch the scene close...it looks like he acts as if he puts it in, but I don’t think he does (because he doesn’t have a lot of $?). I think he holds on to the cash and keeps it. I get the impression that he does it because drinking is an expensive habit lol. I could be completely wrong, but I’ve always wondered about it.

    I certainly can see what you're saying. But for Bond to fake paying for something really seems very un-Bondian to me. But who knows.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Well he visibly gives notice to the barkeep and seems established there, to pay and take his own drink.

    328c83a0503a30a2be3a97286c2c64799a836e0a.png

    I'd say he's pulled loose a couple bills but has more in hand. So when he drops the money for the drink, he's also putting the remainder back in pocket.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    The things people discuss after the fact.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    It's a waste of good scotch money.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    Right. But watch the scene close...it looks like he acts as if he puts it in, but I don’t think he does (because he doesn’t have a lot of $?). I think he holds on to the cash and keeps it. I get the impression that he does it because drinking is an expensive habit lol. I could be completely wrong, but I’ve always wondered about it.

    I certainly can see what you're saying. But for Bond to fake paying for something really seems very un-Bondian to me. But who knows.

    The exact same thing went across my mind. @RichardTheBruce provides some excellent clarity there. Good catch. That part always bugged me; as to what really happened.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    edited November 2021 Posts: 208
    (Forgive me a duplicate post - I posted this in the ‘controversial opinions’ thread, but this seems the better place for it - maybe the mods can remove one of the posts?)

    Skyfall and Vertigo

    Skyfall is my favourite Bond movie. Something about it really clicked for me. It took me a while to work out what it was but watching the Mendes commentary on the Blu-ray made it clear. He mentioned during the Shanghai sequence that when Bond grabs onto the lift, he was directly referencing a shot from the Hitchcock film Vertigo, which is my favourite ever movie.

    Suddenly it all fell into place. Skyfall has Vertigo connections all over the place to an uncanny degree.

    I’ll list them out below (I did put this online once before, a few years ago on a Phil Nobile Jr. article, I think maybe at BirthMoviesDeath):

    - the imagery in the Skyfall title sequence has clear references to the title and dream sequences from Vertigo. The gravestones and the camera going into the eye in particular

    - both movies start with a prologue mid mission chase sequence, with the protagonist (Bond and Scottie) chasing someone down. In both cases the protagonist has to watch or let a colleague die, and both prologues end with Bond / Scottie in a situation from which there really isn’t any plausible escape or survival

    - Bond and Scottie both in fact do survive but we aren’t shown how they do it. This leaves both characters metaphorically suspended between life and death during their movies.
    In Vertigo, it’s a clear visual metaphor (as you’d expect from Hitchcock). The prologue ends with Scottie literally suspended between life and death. In Skyfall, it’s maybe a bit more textual: Bond is ‘enjoying death’ and his hobby is ‘resurrection’

    -Bond and Scottie both leave the service (mi6 and the police force respectively). They are both dealing with physical and psychological trauma

    - They are both drawn back into spy/detective work to try and protect a woman who is being haunted by something/someone from the past.

    -Bond / Scottie both start their investigations through mesmerising wordless sequences where they are tracking someone through a city (Shanghai/San Francisco). In both of these sequences they observe someone sat in front of a painting

    -Both movies turn on plots that have villains hatching what some critics consider to be totally implausible schemes to achieve their objectives, having an almost omnipotent ability to predict how people are going to behave at particular moments in time. Some have said these are weaknesses of the films, even plot holes.

    -in both movies the villains seemingly achieve their objectives (and in Vertigo Gavin Estler gets away with it as far as we know)

    - Both movies have climatic scenes whereby Bond/Scottie have to go back to revisit the scenes of past trauma

    - Bond and Scottie both lose the girl at the end in a church

    I’m sure all of these can’t be coincidence. Were the writers and Mendes deliberately evoking Vertigo with such obvious parallels apparent?
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    I would just add, both movies have similarly bittersweet endings (Although Vertigo is more bitter than sweet)

    In Vertigo, Scottie is afflicted by vertigo, a physical manifestation of his damaged psyche. At the end of the movie, he appears to be cured of his vertigo, but at the cost of having lost the girl (technically for a second time)

    In Skyfall, Bond is dealing with the weight of M’s decisions, in particular the way she treats her agents as expendable assets that she is willing to risk sacrificing for the good of the mission/service.
    By the end he has come round to accepting those decisions and forgiven M. The irony is that to do so he has to make the same decision himself. He risks sacrificing M to protect the service and loses her
  • Posts: 1,394
    To swordevil who said SF was a stand-alone film..it may have been,but thanks to SP and NTTD it’s not anymore.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    To swordevil who said SF was a stand-alone film..it may have been,but thanks to SP and NTTD it’s not anymore.

    It still is. SP and NTTD didn't "change" SF, it's the same film it was before. It has a beginning and an end, and the loose ends of it are tied up.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Everyone, how do you feel about the SF epilogue compared to the other epilogues? @GoldenGun will soon be hosting a great ranking game for these. Please visit this thread for the list, or find it here:
    DN: after Crab Key blows up.
    FRWL: Venice section.
    GF: post-Fort Knox scenes.
    TB: after the Disco has blown up.
    CR67: all Bonds in heaven/hell.
    YOLT: after the volcano eruption.
    OHMSS: marriage and tragic ending.
    DAF: La Bombe Surprise.
    LALD: train scenes.
    TMWTGG: junk scenes.
    TSWLM: after Atlantis has been destroyed.
    MR: attempting re-entry.
    FYEO: the PM gets the bird and moonlight swim.
    OP: after Kamal’s demise.
    NSNA: Bond in retirement and Small-Fawcett visit.
    AVTAK: post-Golden Gate Bridge scenes.
    TLD: Kara’s concert.
    LTK: party at the Sanchez villa.
    GE: after the satellite dish explosion.
    TND: M’s memo and Bond staying undercover.
    TWINE: premature millennium bug and Christmas in Turkey.
    DAD: Moneypenny goes virtual while Bond and Jinx relax surrounded by diamonds.
    CR: post-Vesper’s death.
    QOS: Kazan scenes.
    SF: Bond at MI6.
    SP: getting the DB5 and driving off with Madeleine.
    NTTD: everything after you-know-what.

    Simply rank them, PM your choices to @GoldenGun and keep an eye out for the new thread! Thanks.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    One of my favourite parts of SF.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    One of my favourite parts of SF.

    Same.
  • RE: Bond not paying for his drink at the bar, he offers to pay for it but the barman says, "it's on me". So Bond doesn't need to pay as he's just been told he can have it for free.
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