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Strawberry awards for Bond's "Hall of Shame"

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Easy. It's all DAD.

    That is all.

    That is pretty much it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Ludovico wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Well I don't mean worst as in bad, I go by the seriousness of the villain's plot. like Drax, Silly yes, is quite serious. The death of all life on Earth is pretty serious but I wouldn't call that grounds for being the worst.

    Sorry but however you cut it, the scheme in FRWL is the most intelligent and realistic of the series and one of the best, if not the best. The death of all life on earth, if it is achieved through implausible means, is not very good. The humiliation of MI6 through a plan both ruthless and manipulative, however, is brilliant. FRWL has many qualities, its scheme is one of its strongest points.

    By today's standards, It's not that great. There are much better plots.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    Murdock wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Well I don't mean worst as in bad, I go by the seriousness of the villain's plot. like Drax, Silly yes, is quite serious. The death of all life on Earth is pretty serious but I wouldn't call that grounds for being the worst.

    Sorry but however you cut it, the scheme in FRWL is the most intelligent and realistic of the series and one of the best, if not the best. The death of all life on earth, if it is achieved through implausible means, is not very good. The humiliation of MI6 through a plan both ruthless and manipulative, however, is brilliant. FRWL has many qualities, its scheme is one of its strongest points.

    By today's standards, It's not that great. There are much better plots.

    What today's standards? Who established them? Yes there are better plots, Oedipus Rex has a better plot, but I guess you are referring to plots judged by today's standards, whatever they may be and whether they are different to the 60s standards, or Aristotle's Poetic. A good story is a good story, whenever it was written or filmed. FRWL has endured the test of time, both book and movie, both are considered among the best of the franchise.

    So the plot does not involve a space lazer or the destruction of the human race. You are accusing it of not being ludicrously large scale. It is spy fiction, it uses a MacGuffen as motivation (just like many classics, The Maltese Falcon for instance, which I guess is poor by today's standards too), shows real characters, with real, believable, plausible motivations, has a Bond girl that is actually complex and morally ambiguous, a Bond girl that is central to the plot and not just there as a reward for Bond, it supporting characters that are fully formed instead of gimmicky, it has subtle symbolism that instead of getting in the way of the story actually reinforces its themes... Seriously, how many plots in modern movies do you find worthier, buy today's standards? How many Bond movies have Bond on his knees, unarmed, about to be killed, in such vulnerable position, simply by having SPECTRE manipulating him from the beginning? No space lazer, no superbomb, simply a careful, precise, meticulous, diabolical plan.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Now your just putting words in my mouth. I said my bit on it. I never said it was bad. i just said it wasn't that great. The real world consequences of FRWL's Plot is null. A big bad evil organization wants the British government to steal something for them while in the process humiliate them with a sex scandal plot. Hardly diabolical. But that's just my opinion.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited May 2014 Posts: 15,234
    But this IS diabolical. That would have long term consequences over MI6 and the British government: it would be distrust by its allies, by its own citizens, humiliated in front of friends and foes, its best agent dead and disgraced in death, USSR on the long run winning an important battle in the Cold War. Far more believable and chilling than whatever Doomsday weapon one can come up with. And entirely plausible on a human scale, because the characters are real. Not that great? No, the greatest.

    And I did not invent that you deemed it at the worst scheme of the franchise.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2014 Posts: 12,480
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Film- Die Another Day I don't think I need to explain why.
    Villain- Blofeld (DAF) Remember the massive, intimidating master criminal or the samurai loving psychopath of the novels? Yeah, apparently the screenwriters and Guy Hamilton didn't either so here's Charles Gray in drag! I'm fine with the films doing their own thing and being different from the books (I love TSWLM for example) but turning Blofeld, Bond's arch nemesis, into a camp old drag queen was too far.
    Song- Another Way To Die I think it's so awful that it barely even qualifies as music. Shame because I do like Jack White.
    Gadget- The Bondola At least the vanquish, while silly and OTT, would be useful for a spy. The Bondola is not only OTT, it's also useless. When is Bond ever going to need a gondola hovercraft again? Why the hell would he need it in the first place? I have a theory: the henchmen that attacked him weren't Drax's men. They were hired by Q just so MI6 didn't think the Bondola was a massive waste of time and money.
    Girl- Jinx I think Halle Berry is a good actress but she's shit in DAD. Her performance, plus the awful lines Jinx got, make the worst Bond girl. She's fit though.
    FX- Die Another Day Again, I don't think I need to explain why.
    Scheme- YOLT because Blofeld wouldn't even break even. His plan will net him a hundred million dollars. Would that cover the cost of his spaceship, private army and ridiculously flashy volcano lair? His plan in DAF was pretty stupid too but he's been forced to downsize to an oil rig and he's probably gone a bit mental because of Bond defeating him on a regular basis, SPECTRE falling apart and Irma dumping him, so I'll cut him some slack there.
    Screenplay- Die Another Day There are one or two good lines (my favourite is "plenty of ice, if you can spare it"), and it's very fast paced but it's full of cringe worthy dialoge and the plot is crap.
    Bond- George Lazenby. It's not that he did a bad job mind, I don't think any of the actors were bad. I think he's probably the closest we've ever gotten to Fleming's character but I also think that he's not the best actor and that he was helped massively by the film around him. I do like him though and I feel bad placing him last, he seems like a laugh in real life too. I like him, I just like the others more.

    Agreeing with you on several points, @thelivingroyale. I was just amused to read this bit about Halle because it just dawned on me that although you deride her performance (correctly, in my opinion) I think you have never, not even once, failed to mention how "fit" she is. ;) It's like once you write "Halle" or "Jinx" you form a mental picture of her. Which immediately sends signals to your brain: "But ... She's so fit!" Not laughing at you, really; just find it amusing.

    For me, here are my nods:

    Worst Film: Die Another Day (oh, just die already, this film);
    Runner Up - Moonraker
    Worst Villain: DAF's Blofeld (so lame ...)
    Runner Up: Drax
    Worst Song: Die Another Day (Was it technically a song? Yeah, I guess; but it was painful.)
    Worst Gadget: Bondola (oh, by far the worst! An embarrassment. I'd take an invisible car or a flying car any day over that thing.)
    Worst Bond Girl: Jinx
    Runner Up - May Day
    Worst SFX: Die Another Day
    Worst Scheme: Moonraker
    Worst Screenplay: Moonraker
    Runner Up - DAD (both had horrible, cringe worthy dialog and utterly stupid schemes)
    Worst 007: George Lazenby (no hesitation there)

    And I see we can have Worst PTS:
    I'll go with OHMSS, runner up being TMWTGG for that category.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I'll add worst PTS, too-

    DAF (poor on so many levels.)
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,023
    Worst PTS : Easy : QOS. I like to know what's going on during an action scene, and there, I didn't.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    I don't think the QOS pts is that great, but neither do I think its that bad either.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    edited May 2014 Posts: 2,341
    I don't think the PTS of OHMSS is so bad.
    DAD song is so bad that it makes the main titles just as hard to bear. Maybe if I mute the sound I can watch the titles.
    TMWTGG titles were just uninspiring

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    The PTS of OHMSS is messy sometimes, but overall it is a great one. It has a great fight scene and introduces the new Bond very well. Lazenby never looked so much like Bond as in the PTS. Not to mention Tracy's introduction, maybe the best in the series for a Bond girl.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,525
    I love OHMSS's PTS. Then again, I love just about everything in that movie.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    FoxRox wrote:
    I love OHMSS's PTS. Then again, I love just about everything in that movie.

    Even the "This never happened to the other fella" comment ?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    This is one line and although a questionable one it can be defended and in any case is hardly enough to detriment the overall quality of the PTS.

    I find the PTS of TMWTGG very good too, although it is a lesser version of the FRWL one.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited May 2014 Posts: 12,837
    My least favourite PTS is LALD.
    4EverBonded wrote:
    I was just amused to read this bit about Halle because it just dawned on me that although you deride her performance (correctly, in my opinion) I think you have never, not even once, failed to mention how "fit" she is. ;) It's like once you write "Halle" or "Jinx" you form a mental picture of her. Which immediately sends signals to your brain: "But ... She's so fit!" Not laughing at you, really; just find it amusing.

    That's pretty much what happens :P I'll type a post slagging her off but then the bikini scene pops into my head and I feel compelled to write about how fit she is. I do think she's one of the hottest Bond girls. It's a shame she didn't have longer hair when she filmed DAD though, I think she looks better with longer hair.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I wasnt looking at her hair.... ;)
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,525
    barryt007 wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    I love OHMSS's PTS. Then again, I love just about everything in that movie.

    Even the "This never happened to the other fella" comment ?

    Yes!!! Of course! What's a more fitting intro to Connery's succesor? I thought it was fine; it didn't even have to strictly relate to Connery's Bond, even though it was its meaning.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    edited May 2014 Posts: 2,341
    Nothing wrong with Halle's looks or Tanya Roberts for that part. It was just the dialogue and Jinx's character in general that lands her on most worsts lists.

    Lois Chiles was a bad Bond girl and just not much in the looks department either.

    I have a problem ranking May Day as a Bond girl. Like Fiona Volpe and Elektra I consider her in the villain department. Maybe its just me...
  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    edited May 2014 Posts: 1,596
    Worst PTS: FYEO
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    ThighsOfXenia wrote:
    Worst PTS: FYEO

    I wouldn't even think so: the first part when Bond is visiting the grave is very good.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I'm tempted to say DAF is the worst PTS.

    Also, maybe its just me but its not hard to imagine Leslie Nielsen in the PTS of Octopussy its so goofy (I do find it funny though).

    AVTAK has to be the cringiest ("call me James it's...5 days 'till Alaska"...urgh)


    My nominations:
    Worst film DAF/DAD
    Worst villian: Gustav Graves
    Worst song AWTD
    Worst gadget: Invisible car
    Worst girl Jinx/Mary Goodnight
    Worst FX DAD
    Worst scheme DAF
    Worst PTS DAF
    Worst Screenplay DAD
    Worst Bond George Lazenby (he's my least favourite)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    I actually find DAFs PTS far superior to the rest of the movie. Flawed yes, certainly, but much better than what would come.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,525
    I love FYEO's PTS. Everyone always complains about how Blofeld acts and dies, but I didn't mind it all. I thought it was a satisfying death. Also the delicatessen line didn't bug me, even though it was silly. Graveyard scene was nice (and slap to code-name theorists) and I like the entire helicopter sequence.
  • JohnBarryFanJohnBarryFan
    edited May 2014 Posts: 1,405
    4EverBonded wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Film- Die Another Day I don't think I need to explain why.
    Villain- Blofeld (DAF) Remember the massive, intimidating master criminal or the samurai loving psychopath of the novels? Yeah, apparently the screenwriters and Guy Hamilton didn't either so here's Charles Gray in drag! I'm fine with the films doing their own thing and being different from the books (I love TSWLM for example) but turning Blofeld, Bond's arch nemesis, into a camp old drag queen was too far.
    Song- Another Way To Die I think it's so awful that it barely even qualifies as music. Shame because I do like Jack White.
    Gadget- The Bondola At least the vanquish, while silly and OTT, would be useful for a spy. The Bondola is not only OTT, it's also useless. When is Bond ever going to need a gondola hovercraft again? Why the hell would he need it in the first place? I have a theory: the henchmen that attacked him weren't Drax's men. They were hired by Q just so MI6 didn't think the Bondola was a massive waste of time and money.
    Girl- Jinx I think Halle Berry is a good actress but she's shit in DAD. Her performance, plus the awful lines Jinx got, make the worst Bond girl. She's fit though.
    FX- Die Another Day Again, I don't think I need to explain why.
    Scheme- YOLT because Blofeld wouldn't even break even. His plan will net him a hundred million dollars. Would that cover the cost of his spaceship, private army and ridiculously flashy volcano lair? His plan in DAF was pretty stupid too but he's been forced to downsize to an oil rig and he's probably gone a bit mental because of Bond defeating him on a regular basis, SPECTRE falling apart and Irma dumping him, so I'll cut him some slack there.
    Screenplay- Die Another Day There are one or two good lines (my favourite is "plenty of ice, if you can spare it"), and it's very fast paced but it's full of cringe worthy dialoge and the plot is crap.
    Bond- George Lazenby. It's not that he did a bad job mind, I don't think any of the actors were bad. I think he's probably the closest we've ever gotten to Fleming's character but I also think that he's not the best actor and that he was helped massively by the film around him. I do like him though and I feel bad placing him last, he seems like a laugh in real life too. I like him, I just like the others more.

    Agreeing with you on several points, @thelivingroyale. I was just amused to read this bit about Halle because it just dawned on me that although you deride her performance (correctly, in my opinion) I think you have never, not even once, failed to mention how "fit" she is. ;) It's like once you write "Halle" or "Jinx" you form a mental picture of her. Which immediately sends signals to your brain: "But ... She's so fit!" Not laughing at you, really; just find it amusing.

    For me, here are my nods:

    Worst Film: Die Another Day (oh, just die already, this film);
    Runner Up - Moonraker
    Worst Villain: DAF's Blofeld (so lame ...)
    Runner Up: Drax
    Worst Song: Die Another Day (Was it technically a song? Yeah, I guess; but it was painful.)
    Worst Gadget: Bondola (oh, by far the worst! An embarrassment. I'd take an invisible car or a flying car any day over that thing.)
    Worst Bond Girl: Jinx
    Runner Up - May Day
    Worst SFX: Die Another Day
    Worst Scheme: Moonraker
    Worst Screenplay: Moonraker
    Runner Up - DAD (both had horrible, cringe worthy dialog and utterly stupid schemes)
    Worst 007: George Lazenby (no hesitation there)

    And I see we can have Worst PTS:
    I'll go with OHMSS, runner up being TMWTGG for that category.

    Worst PTS OHMSS? Are you nuts?
    Greatest PTS action ever, tremendous beach fight. Lazenby rules.
    I agree with QOS being the worst, TMWTGG close second.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2014 Posts: 12,480
    @JohnBarryFan, I do not enjoy the OHMSS PTS; I found it to be just not good, rather annoying even. But then, the rest of the film lived up to that; it is not even in my top half of Bond films. I know others on here love it; I simply don't and I don't like the PTS either. But then, you enjoyed Lazenby as Bond, so there you go. We just look at the same scenes and have different reactions.

    @thelivingroyale - I knew that was what was happening. ;) Glad you took my comments in the right way. I also like Halle's hair a lot longer. She is a lovely woman. And fit, I agree (though not with the same charge that you get out of that).

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