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The Deplorable Sexism of Bond movies DN - TMWTGG

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
edited May 2014 in Bond Movies Posts: 17,804
Twist the girl's arm, put her in the way of a punch, borderline rape her & turn her from the all-girls-club, turn her towards the sniper's bullet, slap her, throw her in a closet whilst you have a nearby shag... Jeeze, the lack of PC in that era is shocking. Positively shocking. B-)

Seriously though, I was talking to a casual movie fan today who said she didn't like most Bond movies, but that Dalton & Brosnan's first films were pretty good (they were pretty female-friendly, as Bond films go).

I was wondering if younger females regard the older films as so sexist they can't even watch them... generally speaking.

Thoughts on this?

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Comments

  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,474
    I really don't know. It's almost like it's a part of Bond's personality, at least in those days. I'm sure plenty of females find this sexist though; the Bond series is kind of just like that. I'm not condoning it, of course, but again, it just seemed to be part of Bond's character - he doesn't really see a difference in using violence on men or women alike.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I know the violence and whatnot was of its time, so it's not very shocking when I watch it in the earlier films, but the part that always stands out to me is in the PTS of DAF, when Bond tears the bikini off of the woman (and you actually see her breasts), instantly wraps it around her neck, and starts to choke her out.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    in the PTS of DAF, when Bond tears the bikini off of the woman (and you actually see her breasts), instantly wraps it around her neck, and starts to choke her out.
    That was pretty hardcore. In fact DAF was possibly the worst 'offender' on that level with that, slapping Tiffany, killing Plenty & nearly drowning the two Disney chicks... :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2014 Posts: 40,978
    @chrisisall, yes it was, and anytime Bond's "roughness" towards women is brought up, that scene always stands out to me.

    Are you talking about the violence towards women in general in DAF, or the violence Bond does? Because he slaps Tiffany and nearly drowns Bambi & Thumper, but it's Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd that killed Plenty.

    Also - I'm not going to take this off topic, just a fun fact - Sid Haig played one of the Slumber Inc. employees in the film.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,474
    chrisisall wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    in the PTS of DAF, when Bond tears the bikini off of the woman (and you actually see her breasts), instantly wraps it around her neck, and starts to choke her out.
    That was pretty hardcore. In fact DAF was possibly the worst 'offender' on that level with that, slapping Tiffany, killing Plenty & nearly drowning the two Disney chicks... :))

    I know what the heck?!? Haha have to agree. DAF is 18, 19ish on my list right now; it has some great fun things like Wint and Kidd, but suffers from too many cons to be higher. All the woman violence is one of them

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Are you talking about the violence towards women in general
    That was my intention, but Bond does seem to do much of it...
    ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @chrisisall, ahh, okay, just making sure, because the film doesn't really clear up who kills Plenty (although it's pretty obvious), and I was reading online last night about scenes that were going to be in the film that showed how she got to the house and how Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd mistook her for Tiffany. But yes, most of the violence does appear to be dealt by Bond's hands alone, literally. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    Dalton does dish it out a bit to women, pulling a dress off Pushkin's lass in TLD, and pinning down Lupe in LTK. No actual hitting by him, though (but Sanchez whips Lupe- that's probably why the lady I was talking to can't deal with that one).
    But then, Bond gets Xenia crushed, Carver has Paris murdered, and Bond shoots Elektra, so even Brosnan's movies have some misogyny to them...
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    DN: Nothing really stands out
    FRWL: Russian cypher clerks love a good shlapping from Sean.
    GF: Dink getting spanked. Lesbians love nothing more than a good role in the hay with straight Scots.
    TB: All women are mistresses
    YOLT: Those Japanese girl sure are subservient.
    OHMSS: Even countesses need to be punched around by there daddies and hubbies.
    DAF: Sean figured out how to keep Tiffany in line.
    LALD: Roger teaches us his cherry popping skills.
    TMWTGG: Blondes are really dumb.



    Sorry, don't see what's deplorable about this.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    Kerim wrote:
    Sorry, don't see what's deplorable about this.

    *Vader voice*
    I find your lack of PC disturbing.
    b-(
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    What are you talking about? I'm on a PC as I type this. :P
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Well played, sir!! LOL. =D>
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited May 2014 Posts: 6,432
    Deleted
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    And that's the key to the character- if you want to hang with him or BE him, then either the depiction is wrong, or you're not readin'/seein' it right.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    chrisisall wrote:
    And that's the key to the character- if you want to hang with him or BE him, then either the depiction is wrong, or you're not readin'/seein' it right.

    I am seeing it right, i don't include myself in any way when i watch a Bond film. Like any movie there is detachment certainly from my point of view. I happen to enjoy the movies, though i don't enjoy them for the reasons your topic states. Though i am far from being oblivious from how Bond conducts himself and i would never except if i saw that in reality. I understand physical abuse and violence and seen it first hand and i am totally against it because i know the damage it causes.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,474
    All of them were somewhat rough with women; Connery slapping multiple women, Laz hit Tracy once, Moore slap in TMWTGG (he's probably the tamest overall though), Dalton pinning Lupe and dress rip, Brosnan with Xenia, and Craig with Vesper sometimes (bloody idiot!). Misogyny is just a part of the character, though; to take that out entirely would be taking away a part of a character. It's certainly not admirable, but an important flaw to consider about Bond.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @FoxRox, just like smoking, but they already took that away from Bond, unfortunately!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @FoxRox, just like smoking, but they already took that away from Bond, unfortunately!
    One cannot smoke & be an Olympian-class long-distance runner.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,474
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @FoxRox, just like smoking, but they already took that away from Bond, unfortunately!

    Hmm... I think taking away the misogynistic side would still be worse though, because that's still more of his actual character/person. Smoking is a habit, not necessarily a character trait. I didn't mind that they took away the smoking honestly...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @chrisisall, James Bond can.

    @FoxRox, I agree that taking away that side would be worse since that IS part of his personality, but you see what I was getting at, at least.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @chrisisall, James Bond can.

    Sorry, I was not speaking my own opinion, but what I felt the producers have forced on the character. I did not make that clear. :)>-
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @chrisisall, it's fine, I understand. :-)
  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    I think it is the tone that is wrong a lot of the time, and that is worst with Roger Moore in my (recent) opinion. It's just this self-regarding attitude, you could be the best looking guy ever and a woman would not want to go with you. To be fair, I think Moore was just sending the whole thing up, that was his approach, but it doesn't work now.

    Connery's Bond lived in a more real, more brutal reality so if he had to get to the truth, a slap might 'be in order'. I don't take the lesbian clinch too seriously, or his seduction of Pam in the shower in TB, which she is clearly up for, but other stuff jars. Again, mainly Moore I must say, like the bit in TSWLM when he meets his friend in Egypt, who 'lays' on a young wench for him, she kneels and offers him a rose. Now it just looks like he's saying, hey, I've got this young sex slave, fancy porking her? But back then, the joke was 'Hey, Bond, eh? What a guy, always looking for a bit of sex, and always attractive to women!' Like sex was a punchline to everything.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    NapoleonPlural wrote:
    the bit in TSWLM when he meets his friend in Egypt, who 'lays' on a young wench for him, she kneels and offers him a rose. Now it just looks like he's saying, hey, I've got this young sex slave, fancy porking her?
    Yeah, that doesn't fly so well now...
    :\">
  • timmertimmer
    edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I am often torn between Bond's best bum-slapping moment.
    I do like the quick, giddy-up, off-you-go Dink, man-talk, poolside send-off.
    Very efficient, very friendly, and Dink enjoyed it, knowing full well, the slap merely meant that playtime had been postponed, due to man-talk. Very understandable and reasonable.
    Contrast with the more sensual, playful, yet still firm, bum-tap offered to Tatiana in the privacy of the Orient Express car. A hint of imminent, intimate activity to come. Very intoxicating no doubt for her. Bond deftly sets the mood here.
    Never mind what wine to eat with fish, Connery-Bond also knew the subtle differences between the public poolside bum-slap and the more intimate private quarters bum-slap.
    Just another example of Connery-Bond as culturally refined icon of the era.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Oh my, you are not politically correct in whole OR in part, @timmer! @-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bum-slaps are good, unless I am the reciever.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    I got one from a girl in college. She was pretty, so I didn't mind too much.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I got one from a transvestite in Hamburg, and I did mind. I call it terrorism.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    A sweet transvestite?*


    *Rocky Horror ref

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