The Deplorable Sexism of Bond movies DN - TMWTGG

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    chrisisall wrote:
    A sweet transvestite?*


    *Rocky Horror ref

    Only if they're from transexual Transylvania.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I got one from a transvestite in Hamburg, and I did mind. I call it terrorism.
    Did you need therapy?! :))
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It was ugly. As if the occupation in the 40s was not enough.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    What about the present?
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in water.
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in oil.
    Kiss the girl, she's shot in the head.

    The misogyny ain't over, just less casual-like.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I got my bum slapped by this beautifull 21 year old and when I looked at her she winked at me................She made my day. :!!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    She treated you like a sex object... 8-|
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote:
    What about the present?
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in water.
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in oil.
    Kiss the girl, she's shot in the head.
    Bond films have become like Friday the Thirteeth films. The girls that have sex, will later get killed.
    You forgot: Kiss the girl, she gets tortured and dumped on the beach (Solange)

  • Posts: 533
    But then, Bond gets Xenia crushed, Carver has Paris murdered, and Bond shoots Elektra, so even Brosnan's movies have some misogyny to them...

    I'm a woman, but even I was glad to seek Elektra bite the dust. Frankly, she struck me as something of a sexist in her own right.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DRush76 wrote:
    I'm a woman, but even I was glad to seek Elektra bite the dust. Frankly, she struck me as something of a sexist in her own right.

    I was just listing violence directed at women; overall, I think Brosnan's movies had the fewest innocent females seriously hurt or killed.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    It was ugly. As if the occupation in the 40s was not enough.

    I was once bum-slapped by a transvestite. It was the Wurst thing to have happened to me...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It was ugly. As if the occupation in the 40s was not enough.

    I was once bum-slapped by a transvestite. It was the Wurst thing to have happened to me...

    Did you enjoy Germany apart from that?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    It was ugly. As if the occupation in the 40s was not enough.

    I was once bum-slapped by a transvestite. It was the Wurst thing to have happened to me...

    Did you enjoy Germany apart from that?

    A little restless, butt I got off eventually.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It was ugly. As if the occupation in the 40s was not enough.

    I was once bum-slapped by a transvestite. It was the Wurst thing to have happened to me...

    Did you enjoy Germany apart from that?

    A little restless, butt I got off eventually.

    Those Germans. No Conshience.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Flagged for adolescent behaviour.

    (just kidding)
  • Posts: 1,596
    chrisisall wrote:
    What about the present?
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in water.
    Kiss the girl, she drowns in oil.
    Kiss the girl, she's shot in the head.

    The misogyny ain't over, just less casual-like.

    Haha this is perfect! For "oh so politically correct" tone of the current Bond films, the women sure do meet grisly ends compared to their old school counterparts.

  • edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote:
    DRush76 wrote:
    I'm a woman, but even I was glad to seek Elektra bite the dust. Frankly, she struck me as something of a sexist in her own right.

    I was just listing violence directed at women; overall, I think Brosnan's movies had the fewest innocent females seriously hurt or killed.
    Here is the "official" list of innocent Bond-girls (girls that Bond is either involved with or working with) killed in Bond films.
    I am not including the villanious murderous types such as Fiona Volpe, Helga Brandt, Elektra King etc. Bond is supposed to deal with these villainesses, if their fellow criminals don't get them first.

    DN- nil
    FRWL-nil

    Dangerous years
    GF- Jill and Tilly Masterson
    TB- Paula
    YOLT- Aki
    OHMSS- Tracy
    DAF- Plenty
    LALD- Rosie
    TMWTGG- Andrea Anders
    TSWLM- Felicca ( he was making out with her when she was shot by Sandor. She was being groomed as accomplice)
    MR- Corinne Dufour
    FYEO- Lisl

    The safe years
    OP- nil
    AVTAK-nil
    TLD-nil
    LTK-nil (I'm not including Della. She was Leiter's responsibility)
    GE- nil
    TND- Paris Carver
    TWINE- nil
    DAD- nil

    Real dangerous years
    CR- Solange and Vesper
    QoS- Fields
    SF- Severine

    As we can see there was a 10 film stretch from GF to FYEO where girls involved with Bond were getting knocked off at a rate of 1 per film.
    Post FYEO, things settled down. In 8 of the next 9 films (OP to DAD) being involved with Bond wasn't quite so dangerous.
    Although something to consider; in the Broz era we saw an increase in femme fatales (Onatopp, Cigar Girl, King, Frost) so we still had dead girls, just not the good ones, but there are lots of dead bad guys too, so the more interesting study IMO, is the violence on the good girls. Villains getting killed (male or female) is par for the course.
    But, a list of Bond's dead male accomplices or friends, would be an interesting comparison vis-a-vis the dead girlfriends.

    There are quite a few dead male friends too. Quarrel, Kerim, Dikko, Campbell (OHMSS), Strutter, Luigi, Vijay, Tibbett, Chuck Lee, Saunders, Sharky, Zukovsky, Mathis... so the violence against Bond friends may not be quite so gender biased as it may appear. That male list, I think is quite extensive too.

    Edit: Actually counting the females vs males, I've got 16 girls vs 13 males. Not a big disparity really over 23 films.
    12 girls vs 12 guys in the pre-Craig era. "dead" even.

    In the Craig era, it's back to open season on the girls, with a 4 dead girls over 3 films plus one dead male friend (mathis)




  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    @timmer, WOW, you just made this thread, man!! AWESOME!! Thanks so much!
  • Posts: 4,762
    I wouldn't necessarily call it "deplorable sexism"; first of all, it's kind of a trademark of Bond stories to have at least one important woman killed off. It makes us feel sorry for not only those women involved, but for Bond himself, who feels like a plague that only spreads destruction to those who come near him. Also, as @timmer mentioned, there've been a great number of male allies killed off as well, so I wouldn't go to say that Bond movies are sexist. And if they were, who cares? Political correctness is a joke.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    00Beast wrote:
    Political correctness is a joke.
    The partial point of my thread.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote:
    @timmer, WOW, you just made this thread, man!! AWESOME!! Thanks so much!

    You planted the seed. I suddenly got curious about how many of Bond's male allies got killed versus female friends, and over the first 20 films it turns out to be even.
    The Craig era is 4 female versus 1 male, but its a small sample yet.
    I think the broader pattern is that Bond tends to lose an ally, be it male or female in each film. The only two exceptions seem to be GE and DAD.
    Even in the safe years that I cited for women above, Bond loses a lot of male allies in those films.
    In one film, AVTAK, the men get it bad. Bond loses both Tibbett and Chuck Lee, which I guess offsets the double loss of the Masterson sisters, 11 films earlier in GF.
    Fleming I guess planted the seed with the dramatic killings of Darko Kerim and Quarrel, along with the Masterson sisters, and the movies have run with the idea.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    So, with the settling of the matter of sexism in Bond franchise killings (not much), it comes down to non-death casual sexism in individual movies.
    For Bond's part:
    The biggest one for me was in TSWLM where Bond accepts the slave girl sex. Not cool IMO.
    The Dink slap, however awkward by today's standards, wasn't a big deal.
    Patricia at Shrublands wanted Bond; we all know it... just like Ms. Galore did.
    The various facial slaps were warranted to wake the women up to the seriousness of the situations.
    The arm twisting of Andrea was only a bit creepy due to Roger being uncomfortable playing it rough like Connery would, so he had a sort of inappropriate easy-going-ness to him that actually made him seem all the more sadistic.
    The bikini-top strangle was to a bad girl connected to Blofeld.

    One last note to those offended by Bond's semi-rape of Pussy:
    She was most definitely NOT an idiot. She was incredibly bright, in fact. She HAD to know she couldn't take Bond in a non-lethal 'Judo barn match'. That was her challenging him. Sexually. And she delighted in his 'winning' her. Hehe heh, you don't open your mouth to a man who's clearly not going to hurt you if you don't want to be deeply kissed.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I don't think the Dink slap is bad in any sense, it just seems friendly enough to me as a sort of goodbye so he and Felix can talk. I'm watching TSWLM right now, @chrisisall, and that slave part gets to me, as well, it's just very creepy, even by Bond's standards.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    Another thing:
    When Bond stacks the cards in his favour, how do we KNOW if he didn't Solitaire would NOT have pulled up that card in any case? Again!
    He was playing the control card when it wasn't even necessary- therein lies the joke IMO.
    Sexist? Not a bit of it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    @chrisisall, I might be misreading what you're saying, but are you summing up that you don't like the manipulation he uses to try and trick Solitaire into having sex with him?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    @Creasy47, No, I'm saying that that's pure Bond. He wanted her, and he saw she wanted him, he stacked the deck to move things to that end more quickly because he didn't believe in mumbo-jumbo, but the reality was that she really DID see the future when he drew the lovers card earlier.
    Honestly, if Connery had been in it, and Kananga's demise was just a bit bloody, it would be my absolute favourite Bond movie!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    What is it that you didn't like about Moore in it? And agreed, he was fast-tracking the inevitable, in a sense. He wanted her, she knew that they would be together due to the first drawing of the card, he just wanted to speed up the process because it's Jane Seymour who is smoking hot.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I can't imagine Connery in LALD very well; Moore fit the bill perfectly for it. DAF and LALD may both have the cheesy-silly feel, but they're still totally different films. Also, Kananga's demise cracks me up every time; best Bond villain death for me still.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    Creasy47 wrote:
    What is it that you didn't like about Moore in it?
    He lacked the rough edges Connery had. If he'd played Bond more like he did in FYEO at that age in LALD, it would have been fine. There was too much leftover Brett Sinclair in his performance jarring with an expectation of some degree of a Connery-like presence (which Lazenby had been able to pull off fairly well earlier).
    As much as I enjoy DAF & TMWTGG, LALD is objectively the best of the three IMO.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I just don't really care for Lazenby, and feel that Moore is leagues better than him. Moore may not be as brutal as Craig or as rough as Connery, but I think he gets the job done just fine, and given the supernatural elements and some of the tense moments, I love Moore's sarcastic attitude. It makes him look cocky and tough to an extent.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,804
    double post, it seems...
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