John Cleese Suggests that Bond franchise lost its humor with Skyfall...

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Comments

  • Posts: 2,599
    actonsteve wrote:
    "Q doesn't appear in Casino Royale but it would have been nice if the producers had the courtesy to telephone me." That's hardly bitching is it? He doesn't even seem pissed off that he wasn't in the film, he just seems annoyed that he wasn't told about it before, which is understandable.

    It was a job he enjoyed and instead of them ringing him and telling him that he wouldn't be in it because they were going in a different direction, they just never contacted him again after DAD and announced CR without him. I think it's the producers that were in the wrong there, not Cleese.

    He's still moaning about it in 2014. I would say it went deep.

    Thanks for the quote - they took their mind off Q during those years. The quote from Baine about the alamony tour was interesting.

    I was sure that Cleese said more than that.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With respect to Cleese he does have a rather bitter side. I saw him in Oxford during his Alamony tour in 2012 and he spent the whole first half talking about how much money his ex made during everyday of their marriage.

    Cleese does have a tendency to carry his grievances through life, although he never ever learns from his mistakes. H is ex wives take all his money, yet he can't stop himself keep getting married. If he was the grounded, decent person his colleague Michael Palin is and was (married for nearly 50 years) he wouldn't get in this mess. ;-)

    Mind you all the Pythons have spent 40 odd years bitching about each other and have seen it as quite normal practice (they don't hold grudges - it's like a game to them), so maybe Cleese simply carries it over into other aspects of his life.
  • Posts: 11,189
    NicNac wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    With respect to Cleese he does have a rather bitter side. I saw him in Oxford during his Alamony tour in 2012 and he spent the whole first half talking about how much money his ex made during everyday of their marriage.

    Cleese does have a tendency to carry his grievances through life, although he never ever learns from his mistakes. H is ex wives take all his money, yet he can't stop himself keep getting married. If he was the grounded, decent person his colleague Michael Palin is and was (married for nearly 50 years) he wouldn't get in this mess. ;-)

    Mind you all the Pythons have spent 40 odd years bitching about each other and have seen it as quite normal practice (they don't hold grudges - it's like a game to them), so maybe Cleese simply carries it over into other aspects of his life.

    I think he's got some sort of personality disorder and I could imagine him being a horrible person to live with. I could be wrong but didn't Connie Booth become a psychiatrist?
  • Posts: 15,123
    Getafix wrote:
    He's obsessed by money and with himself. Not a very pleasant person.

    Never know he had this reputation. What's up with comedians being so disagreeable as persons?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Jimmy Carr is a nasty w***er....my daughter met him after a show and he was a complete prick to her,arrogant as hell...
  • Posts: 7,653
    Amazing the man Cleese offers an opinion when asked about the new movies, and people take offense and he is suddenly portrayed like a lunatic, jealous, etc.

    Like anybody on this site does regularly he as the right of giving his opinion, the difference being that this man has actually worked on a 007 movie, a dream for most of us. And he is funny.

    I do agree that more and more it shows that Wilson & Barbera seem to lack the people skills that their father Cubby had, I doubt if had he been around you would have dissatisfied remarks like Brosnan and now Cleese has done would have happened. Indeed if you are going for something important make sure that you sit down with the more important players and explain why their services are no longer required. B&W have seriously thrown their fathers family orientated franchise to the wolves. That is one reboot to far IMHO.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Cleese has a right to his opinion... And we have the right to criticize his opinion and assess its value. He thinks there's not enough humour in the franchise now, I think the growing importance of humour is a twisted road that the series took, sometimes to its detriment. His own casting was symptomatic of this. As for his comment on action are hypocritical or incredibly stupid, as he played in two movies that were higher on overlong nonsensical action scenes than any of the Craig movies... And this is regardless of the flaws of Craig's movies. In other words, pot kettle black.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    SaintMark wrote:
    I do agree that more and more it shows that Wilson & Barbera seem to lack the people skills that their father Cubby had, I doubt if had he been around you would have dissatisfied remarks like Brosnan and now Cleese has done would have happened. Indeed if you are going for something important make sure that you sit down with the more important players and explain why their services are no longer required. B&W have seriously thrown their fathers family orientated franchise to the wolves. That is one reboot to far IMHO.
    You could probably make an embarrassingly large list of all of the qualities that Barbara and Michael lack in comparison to Cubby. The man was a legend. I understand why the comparisons are inevitable though even if they are not entirely fair. However, let's not forget that Connery and Lazenby both were quite dissatisfied upon their departures. Sometimes harsh feelings are unavoidable. I think that Cubby would be very proud of the current state of the franchise. He was a businessman after all and I think he would be very happy to see that business is booming. Barbara and Michael have made their fair share of mistakes but they are constantly improving in my eyes.
  • Posts: 7,653
    pachazo wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    I do agree that more and more it shows that Wilson & Barbera seem to lack the people skills that their father Cubby had, I doubt if had he been around you would have dissatisfied remarks like Brosnan and now Cleese has done would have happened. Indeed if you are going for something important make sure that you sit down with the more important players and explain why their services are no longer required. B&W have seriously thrown their fathers family orientated franchise to the wolves. That is one reboot to far IMHO.

    You could probably make an embarrassingly large list of all of the qualities that Barbara and Michael lack in comparison to Cubby. The man was a legend. I understand why the comparisons are inevitable though even if they are not entirely fair. However, let's not forget that Connery and Lazenby both were quite dissatisfied upon their departures. Sometimes harsh feelings are unavoidable. I think that Cubby would be very proud of the current state of the franchise. He was a businessman after all and I think he would be very happy to see that business is booming. Barbara and Michael have made their fair share of mistakes but they are constantly improving in my eyes.

    I think that Cubby would have pointed out the human side of the business and its importance and gains due to that.

    Sean Connery wanted more money and even to become a partner in the franchise, he felt entitled due to his importance to the franchise. After Roger Moore proved he could easily match Connery his value the never was a discussion about the position of the leading actor namely employee.

    As for improving SF does not show that besides the BO.

  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote:
    Cleese has a right to his opinion... And we have the right to criticize his opinion and assess its value. He thinks there's not enough humour in the franchise now, I think the growing importance of humour is a twisted road that the series took, sometimes to its detriment. His own casting was symptomatic of this. As for his comment on action are hypocritical or incredibly stupid, as he played in two movies that were higher on overlong nonsensical action scenes than any of the Craig movies... And this is regardless of the flaws of Craig's movies. In other words, pot kettle black.

    You are an example of the reactions in this thread, OTT.

    The man offers an opinion you either take it as agree, disagree FYI.
  • Posts: 11,189
    barryt007 wrote:
    Jimmy Carr is a nasty w***er....my daughter met him after a show and he was a complete prick to her,arrogant as hell...

    Really?? I've met him a couple of times after gigs and he seemed nice to me and my sis (and that was after I gave him a heckling and he tore me to shreds).

    Maybe he was in a pissy mood.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    Jimmy Carr is a nasty w***er....my daughter met him after a show and he was a complete prick to her,arrogant as hell...

    Really?? I've met him a couple of times after gigs and he seemed nice to me and my sis (and that was after I gave him a heckling and he tore me to shreds).

    Maybe he was in a pissy mood.

    That's possible...yep.

  • Posts: 15,123
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Cleese has a right to his opinion... And we have the right to criticize his opinion and assess its value. He thinks there's not enough humour in the franchise now, I think the growing importance of humour is a twisted road that the series took, sometimes to its detriment. His own casting was symptomatic of this. As for his comment on action are hypocritical or incredibly stupid, as he played in two movies that were higher on overlong nonsensical action scenes than any of the Craig movies... And this is regardless of the flaws of Craig's movies. In other words, pot kettle black.

    You are an example of the reactions in this thread, OTT.

    The man offers an opinion you either take it as agree, disagree FYI.

    And opinion can be criticized and called on. I don't care if you think I'm OTT. I find Cleese's opinion ridiculous in this particular matter.
  • Posts: 15,123
    SaintMark wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Cleese has a right to his opinion... And we have the right to criticize his opinion and assess its value. He thinks there's not enough humour in the franchise now, I think the growing importance of humour is a twisted road that the series took, sometimes to its detriment. His own casting was symptomatic of this. As for his comment on action are hypocritical or incredibly stupid, as he played in two movies that were higher on overlong nonsensical action scenes than any of the Craig movies... And this is regardless of the flaws of Craig's movies. In other words, pot kettle black.

    You are an example of the reactions in this thread, OTT.

    The man offers an opinion you either take it as agree, disagree FYI.

    And opinion can be criticized and called on. I don't care if you think I'm OTT. I find Cleese's opinion ridiculous in this particular matter.
  • Posts: 19,339
    @Ludovico is so pleased with his opinion he even said it twice haha ;)
  • Posts: 479
    If there's one thing I think that we can agree on, it's that Frankie Boyle is a really nasty piece of work. An absolutely deplorable human being who makes fun of things that people don't even mock in private conversation with friends, let alone in front of millions of people.

    Anyway, there needs to be a slight bit of tolerance in this thread. All this talk of Cleese being a bitter, narky old curmudgeon is made up of hear say. Unless anyone here knows the man personally, I say we pass on making judgements about him. He's entitled to his opinion, and people are entitled to disagree with him, but don't start making personal attacks saying that he isn't a decent human being or criticising his personal life.

  • Posts: 15,123
    barryt007 wrote:
    @Ludovico is so pleased with his opinion he even said it twice haha ;)

    Yes, it is my opinion, and I agree with it.;-)
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 2,599
    I can understand Cleese being frustrated at Eon not even giving him a phone call. That isn't professional. There's no excuse for this. I was sure that Cleese had made one or two other angry comments about being let go too which is why I perceived him as being bitter about having been cut loose. This is in no way a criticism of his personality. I don't even know the chap. One would hope people can see the difference.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Cleese simply wouldn't have worked in the Craig era - not that he was any good in the Brosnan era either, but that at least was consistent with the state of the series at the time.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 2,782
    Now let me educate you all here on humour, as you all seem to need it. Being funny is genetic and cultural transgender stimulant based on your brain's ability to process stimuli that you either see, touch, feel or hear.

    It quite simple really, if you were bothered to find out for yourself.

    JC has made a valid yet stupid point.

    As Rod Martin, a professor at the University of Western Ontario, notes in his textbook "The Psychology of Humor", which was published last year, humour is found in all human cultures and is ubiquitous in everyday life. His own studies suggest that on average people laugh 17.5 times per day. And a good sense of humour tends to be one of the most highly rated traits when people choose their friends, lovers or spouses. So psychologists have every reason to take humour seriously.

    Perhaps "seriously" is not quite the word, though. Of the dozens of experiments discussed in Martin's textbook, few manage to avoid a hint of the absurd. Blindfolded subjects are tickled by experimenters who they are told are machines. The sexual banter in an all-night diner in upstate New York is surreptitiously observed. People study cartoons with pens stuck in their mouths (to contract the facial muscles associated with smiling). An experimenter "accidentally" spills hot tea on herself when a jack-in-the-box erupts nearby. One Boston psychologist, the co-author of a paper entitled "A Threshold Theory of the Humor Response", published in The Behavior Analyst last spring, understandably felt obliged to state in a footnote that her surname really is "Joker".

    One conclusion from the new empirical approach to humour is that previous theories did not pay enough attention to play. In 1923 a theoretical tome listed 88 different theories of humour, few of which seemed to acknowledge that it is supposed to be enjoyable. The theories can be divided into three main types.

    The oldest sort are "superiority" theories, whose advocates included Thomas Hobbes, Plato and Aristotle. According to this view, we laugh from sudden feelings of superiority over other people. "Relief" theories are best known from the work of Freud, though the first such account was proposed by Herbert Spencer (who was an editor at The Economist). On this type of theory, laughter releases pent-up psychic energy. The third sort of theory focuses on the incongruity which is allegedly found in all humour. This idea has been traced back to the 1750s and was endorsed by the philosophers Kant and Kierkegaard and the novelist Arthur Koestler. Nowadays, researchers tend to see humour as part of our mammalian inheritance, and as closely related to rough-and-tumble social play.

    Like children, apes laugh during chasing, wrestling and tickling games. Chimps and gorillas who have learned sign-language have used it for punning, incongruous word use and playful insults. Intriguingly, it seems that rats may laugh too. A team of researchers at Bowling Green State University reported in 2000 that rats produce an ultrasonic chirping during play and when tickled by humans. These chirps appear to be contagious, and young rats prefer older rats who produce more of them.

    Rats and humans had a common ancestor about 75m years ago, and humour has clearly come a long way since then. Nobody has caught rats, or even chimps, trying to tell a joke. But another finding from recent research is that pre-packaged jokes are a less important part of humour than people may think. Jokes have a long and fascinating history--which is engagingly told in a short book, "Stop Me If You've Heard This: A History and Philosophy of Jokes", by Jim Holt, to be published in America in July and in Britain in October. But it seems that only about 11% of daily laughter is actually occasioned by jokes. Another 17% is prompted by media and the remaining 72% arises spontaneously in social interaction.

    One popular field of research is the effect of humour on health, which is widely assumed to be positive. The results so far are inconclusive, and slightly disturbing for anyone who likes to laugh. Rod Martin points out that if humour is good for health, then it should be associated with longevity. Yet it appears that cheerful people live less long than their gloomier peers, perhaps because they are too jolly to worry about their aches and pains. It may be true, as the proverb says, that he who laughs last laughs longest. But it seems that he who laughs longest does not last.

    Now if we use Skyfall as a case study we can discern a few things.

    Firstly, Daniel Craig's comedic delivery is fantastic. His timing is almost as laconic and laid back as Connery's.

    Secondly, Skyfall's humour is based on whether you're genetically predisposed to find the lines or actions your personally view funny.

    Thirdly, humour is not therefore, a universal touch-point. So JC is quite right in his own mind that he found Skyfall humourless. However, he was not right to suggest that it was a universal opinion.

    In conclusion, one can say that Skyfall is funny film but only to some people.

    I've put this as simplistically as possible as there are some less fortunates on these boards. May your god have pity on your sad life and soul.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Getafix wrote:
    Cleese simply wouldn't have worked in the Craig era - not that he was any good in the Brosnan era either, but that at least was consistent with the state of the series at the time.

    Exactly. It seems that Cleese fails to.understand that.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 6,396
    Now let me educate you all here on humour, as you all seem to need it. Being funny is genetic and cultural transgender stimulant based on your brain's ability to process stimuli that you either see, touch, feel or hear.

    It quite simple really, if you were bothered to find out for yourself.

    JC has made a valid yet stupid point.

    As Rod Martin, a professor at the University of Western Ontario, notes in his textbook "The Psychology of Humor", which was published last year, humour is found in all human cultures and is ubiquitous in everyday life. His own studies suggest that on average people laugh 17.5 times per day. And a good sense of humour tends to be one of the most highly rated traits when people choose their friends, lovers or spouses. So psychologists have every reason to take humour seriously.

    Perhaps "seriously" is not quite the word, though. Of the dozens of experiments discussed in Martin's textbook, few manage to avoid a hint of the absurd. Blindfolded subjects are tickled by experimenters who they are told are machines. The sexual banter in an all-night diner in upstate New York is surreptitiously observed. People study cartoons with pens stuck in their mouths (to contract the facial muscles associated with smiling). An experimenter "accidentally" spills hot tea on herself when a jack-in-the-box erupts nearby. One Boston psychologist, the co-author of a paper entitled "A Threshold Theory of the Humor Response", published in The Behavior Analyst last spring, understandably felt obliged to state in a footnote that her surname really is "Joker".

    One conclusion from the new empirical approach to humour is that previous theories did not pay enough attention to play. In 1923 a theoretical tome listed 88 different theories of humour, few of which seemed to acknowledge that it is supposed to be enjoyable. The theories can be divided into three main types.

    The oldest sort are "superiority" theories, whose advocates included Thomas Hobbes, Plato and Aristotle. According to this view, we laugh from sudden feelings of superiority over other people. "Relief" theories are best known from the work of Freud, though the first such account was proposed by Herbert Spencer (who was an editor at The Economist). On this type of theory, laughter releases pent-up psychic energy. The third sort of theory focuses on the incongruity which is allegedly found in all humour. This idea has been traced back to the 1750s and was endorsed by the philosophers Kant and Kierkegaard and the novelist Arthur Koestler. Nowadays, researchers tend to see humour as part of our mammalian inheritance, and as closely related to rough-and-tumble social play.

    Like children, apes laugh during chasing, wrestling and tickling games. Chimps and gorillas who have learned sign-language have used it for punning, incongruous word use and playful insults. Intriguingly, it seems that rats may laugh too. A team of researchers at Bowling Green State University reported in 2000 that rats produce an ultrasonic chirping during play and when tickled by humans. These chirps appear to be contagious, and young rats prefer older rats who produce more of them.

    Rats and humans had a common ancestor about 75m years ago, and humour has clearly come a long way since then. Nobody has caught rats, or even chimps, trying to tell a joke. But another finding from recent research is that pre-packaged jokes are a less important part of humour than people may think. Jokes have a long and fascinating history--which is engagingly told in a short book, "Stop Me If You've Heard This: A History and Philosophy of Jokes", by Jim Holt, to be published in America in July and in Britain in October. But it seems that only about 11% of daily laughter is actually occasioned by jokes. Another 17% is prompted by media and the remaining 72% arises spontaneously in social interaction.

    One popular field of research is the effect of humour on health, which is widely assumed to be positive. The results so far are inconclusive, and slightly disturbing for anyone who likes to laugh. Rod Martin points out that if humour is good for health, then it should be associated with longevity. Yet it appears that cheerful people live less long than their gloomier peers, perhaps because they are too jolly to worry about their aches and pains. It may be true, as the proverb says, that he who laughs last laughs longest. But it seems that he who laughs longest does not last.

    Now if we use Skyfall as a case study we can discern a few things.

    Firstly, Daniel Craig's comedic delivery is fantastic. His timing is almost as laconic and laid back as Connery's.

    Secondly, Skyfall's humour is based on whether you're genetically predisposed to find the lines or actions your personally view funny.

    Thirdly, humour is not therefore, a universal touch-point. So JC is quite right in his own mind that he found Skyfall humourless. However, he was not right to suggest that it was a universal opinion.

    In conclusion, one can say that Skyfall is funny film but only to some people.

    I've put this as simplistically as possible as there are some less fortunates on these boards. May your god have pity on your sad life and soul.

    Well done you for using Google.
  • well done for spelling Google....god have mercy on your meagre mind, such simpletons find solace in the smallest avenues of pithy victory. bravo for such a pathetic attempt to joust with an obviously superior intellect...bravo.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 6,396
    well done for spelling Google....god have mercy on your meagre mind, such simpletons find solace in the smallest avenues of pithy victory. bravo for such a pathetic attempt to joust with an obviously superior intellect...bravo.

    I copied and pasted it. Just like you did.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch. Looking forward to seeing who is more superior. ;))
  • Posts: 479
    And now for something completely different...
  • Posts: 6,396
    This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch. Looking forward to seeing who is more superior. ;))

    Give him time. He has to look up some more quotes first. ;-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch. Looking forward to seeing who is more superior. ;))

    Give him time. He has to look up some more quotes first. ;-)

    Excellent reply. Was it available via Google?
  • Posts: 6,396
    This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch. Looking forward to seeing who is more superior. ;))

    Give him time. He has to look up some more quotes first. ;-)

    Excellent reply. Was it available via Google?

    No I asked Muhammad. That's why it was bullshit. :D
  • Posts: 479
    Let me tell you something about the word Humour. The root of the word Humour is Hum, this is also the root of the word Human, therefore Humour is Human nature.
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