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my response to that
I could care but then again I probably don't lol
I just fail to see why Gotham exists.
They have Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Hush etc as either kids or teens. The other major villains, Riddler, Penquin etc are still young enough (mid 20s I'm guessing) that when Batman does arrive they'll only be in their mid 30s/40s - still a believable age.
Just remember, the series of Gotham we're watching now is set today - they have mobile phones, computers and modern equipment - It isn't set in the early days of the comic or movie Batmen.
No one's problem is the setting. Batman Begins keeps the pre-Batman years ambiguous with their timeline - no modern day technology is shown, but nothing particularly dating is, either - I seem to remember the first Tim Burton movie does the same. Batman: The Animated Series (side-note: DCAU Batman = Best Batman) was stylized to look like the 30s/40s/50s, but is set in the show's modern day (90s). I don't think anyone cares about this show's time period...
...except that the show is setting up everything that, by design, it can't pay off. Bruce is seven years from donning the cape and cowl, and we have Penguin pretty much exactly as he'll be when Batman appears. Carmine Falcone will probably be dead before Batman shows up. The Riddler's origin story apparently is "I didn't get my girlfriend, I must now terrorize Gotham!" The Joker is somebody, but we'll never know who until some green hair dye shows up. The Scarecrow is seeing mummies everywhere!!! Mummies!!! (They may be scarecrows, but they look more like mummies to me.) Gordon is pretty damn far along the road to becoming Don James Gordon and taking over Falcone's operation for himself. The idea pushed forth by the pilot, that Gordon was the only honest cop in Gotham and had to fake being dirty to stay alive, has been completely pushed to the side, because he's now threatening the commissioner of police with blackmail.
And let's not forget the one plotline in Gotham that's ridiculously random, and her name is Fish Mooney. When she appeared in the pilot, she was simple: She's Falcone's lieutenant, she's been around, she's garnered allies and supporters. Since then, she's fallen from grace, somehow managed to corrupt dozens of people (prior to her arrival on the Dollmaker's island) to her side with little to no provocation aside from "I'm Fish Mooney". Then she arrives on the Dollmaker's island, and she gets the entire population of the island's prison to rally behind her after doing nothing, then she stabs a guy. What causes this loyalty from people? Do they just see her and decide "must obey", does she secrete some form of pheromones, or what?! What the ever-loving hell is so g*ddamn special about Fish motherf*cking Mooney?!
As I said in an earlier post, this show is treading a very fine line between serialization and case-of-the-week, and it's not doing it very well. Any semblance of an overarching story is thrown away a couple episodes after it's introduced. And if, by some random coincidence, the plotline does crop back up, it becomes ridiculous. Take, for example, the Barbara plotline. This plotline started out as the woman who wouldn't leave Jim Gordon because she loved him. Then she left. Then she got conflicted. Then she disappeared for episodes, and then she came back, to once again disappear.
Gotham is a giant wasted opportunity, much as, I'm sure, the upcoming Krypton show will be. It's disappointing.
And I heard a sound like a million batman fans screaming "Finally why wasn't this done in epsidoe 2"
That's my issue with it. That and being an episodic show with villain of the week.
I can see Fish being incorporated into the comics at some point in the future.
You may be the only one to think that. She is maybe one of the most disliked character on TV at the moment.
I watched the show because of John Doman, who was fantastic in The Wire. He is great in Gotham too, but the show is well, at best underwhelming.
Fish Mooney: The ‘Gotham’ character that grew on us
5 reasons why Fish Mooney is still the best character on ‘Gotham’
She's not universally hated.
No. Just, no. I've ranted ad nauseam about Fish Mooney. Harley Quinn was an eclectic character from a critically acclaimed cartoon that did almost everything right, Fish is a useless, random character from a show that's still struggling. If she's adopted into the comics, she needs to change significantly.
I can understand why she's a "Marmite" character (some people like her, other people dislike her), but outright stating that my opinion is wrong "No. just, no" is uncalled for.
When I stated my thoughts, you replied with this comes across as calling me wrong. No, you've merely stated your opinions about fish, there's a difference between fact and opinion. Just because you don't see the appeal or purpose, it doesn't mean others don't. Again, this is your opinion, my opinion differs. When we first saw Fish, she was already in a position of power, she had a name that people feared and that means a lot.
In a real world example, during the 50s and 60s in London, you only needed to be associated with the Kray Twins to command respect - in Gotham, Fish has risen to the point that her name alone commands respect.
When she's thrown in with the living organ "donors" she earns the respect by bettering the two men who meant to rape her and killing the ad hoc leader, showing that she'll take no disrespect even when she's at her lowest point.
Stating my opinion is not calling you wrong.
Now, let's look at her overall arc:
Fish started out as a nuisance for pretty much nobody but Penguin. Falcone didn't take her seriously in the slightest, she and Gordon didn't cross paths often at all and Maroni didn't even care. Those are about the only characters tied to her before Falcone tried to kill her, and I swear the only reason this failed was because the producers want Fish to be someone that we actually care for, and I really don't.
Then we suddenly see some sort of infatuation between her and Bullock. Never even hinted at again. I would imagine this would come up during her absence from the city of Gotham if it were important.
Then she's being attacked by Somali pirates, thrown on an island in the middle of f*cking nowhere, and now she's trying to worm her way to the top of a human trafficking organization that has nothing to do with the main plot of the show. Nothing. It's gonna take some eleventh hour bullsh*t connection to tie this subplot into the rest of the show. Maybe it'll have something to do with whatever nefarious things Wayne Enterprises is up to, which, by the way, also has little to do with the rest of the show. The only difference is that we've seen scenes of Bruce trying to figure things out.
So please, tell me... what is it about Fish g*ddamn Mooney that has you so interested. You're defending her in much the same way everyone other than Penguin, Gordon and Falcone defend her, with pretty much unwavering loyalty.
Let's get us caught up to speed: Bruce is looking for dirt on the board, Dr. Dullmacher is talking to Fish, half the cops in Gotham have a Cobblepot, Gordon's being elected to president of the Policeman's Union (or something like that).
We begin on a sour note, FIsh still being alive. She's looking out the window, then she walks around the building and talks to the people who are walking around freely as if this is a nursing home. She then walks up to a door, breaks the lock and sets off the alarm so that she can attempt to steal a helicopter. She's caught by "The Catcher", who rules the outside of the building. He appears to be a park ranger with an AK-47.
Now we're at Bruce's mansion, where Bruce is talking to Gordon. Bruce looks a little OCD, and Gordon grills him about Alfred's stabbing, but Bruce keeps lying about it. Gordon will not let up about the lying, it's like he's trying to coax a confession out of a retarded person, Jesus.
Gordon goes back to the GCPD and is greeted by another cop, who wants to talk about him. He wants Gordon to take over a case because nobody else will actually do any police work on it, and Gordon will. He wants to be on Gordon's side, and be a real cop. Apparently, prior to James Gordon arriving, the cops who wanted to do their job were... pussies. Anyway, Gordon goes downstairs to the morgue to talk to Leslie, who realizes that she may have even known the victim, and seems very impressed with it. Creepy.
Fish is still alive, sadly, and she's down in the basement, talking to that guy who was supposed to get gutted that we have no reason to give a sh*t about. She tells him that they're going to escape or die trying, and I really hope it's that "die trying" option.
Exterior. Wayne Manor. Sometime. Cut to. Interior. Wayne Manor. Completely different-looking time of day. Alfred is miraculously home, because apparently stab victims can leave the hospital without actually being healed, and he wants to go after Reggie, and doesn't want Bruce to come with him.
Penguin is talking to some woman working at a deli or a bakery, whichever, I don't care. He's trying to cut a deal, but the woman just ain't having it. The Right Hand Fatman is there, helping the deal along. Wait. Why did this deli/bakery change into a bar as they walked out? Oh, well, Penguin has to do something for her having something to do with her daughter.
Gordon and Bullock are arguing, because, surprise, surprise! Bullock doesn't want to do any work. Nygma walks in with some information for Gordon, and Gordon asks him to find some missing evidence. Gordon then makes Bullock come with him, because Bullock is absurdly easy to sway for somebody who doesn't want to work.
Fish is still alive, and she's coercing everybody in the basement to work with her, and they come up with plans.
Gordon and Bullock are walking around showing people pictures of the woman who was stabbed. Where the hell is Milo Ventimiglia? Oh, there he is, in this flashback. How is he still single, Lady-Who-Died? Because he soaks up super powers like a sponge, and then he - oh, wait, that's Heroes. Anyway, Milo Ventimgilia wants "unconditional, intense, love" (which he says like he's g*ddamn William Shatner) and then he takes her to his apartment. It's been awhile since he had anyone over, but she doesn't look at this like some sick seductive murder plot, despite the fact that it's straight out of almost every Lifetime movie ever made. Anyway, the flashback ends, and Gordon's even more interested in this case than he was before.
Hey, I'm gonna take a chance here and say we'll come back from the commercial to find out that Fish is still alive.
Nope, we're back with OCD Bruce tending to stab victim Alfred. Why the hell did Bruce suddenly become OCD? Is it because this is going to be a plot point in season 2? Anyway, he checks out a location. Penguin passes by, and the look on his face is pure anger at the boy who will eventually be his nemesis.
Penguin and the Right Hand Fatman lop off a dude's fingers. This plot has less to do with the episode than Fish does, that's sad.
Gordon and Bullock visit Leslie, who's found some evidence and is suggesting that the victim ran away for some reason, then was murdered, and the two aren't connected, but Gordon says no, that Milo Ventimiglia killed her.
Speaking of, flashbacks! Why does Milo Ventimiglia's apartment look like a mansion? Anyway, he's seducing her, trying to get her to stay there with him. She says she's got to go, then he grabs her arm and starts going all rapist-killer on her.
Fish is still alive, and she's sneaking around behind Dullmacher's back, and into his office. She looks through his desk and finds some keys, then the door opens and Dullmacher finds her there. He doesn't sound as surprised as he's trying to let on.
Fish is, wait for it, still alive, and Dullmacher's asking her what she's doing. She lies about going for supplies for the inmates, but he knows she's lying and calls her out on it. He pulls out a gun and tells her he's going to shoot her in the stomach, proving why he's the only character to deal with Fish Mooney who's actually got some g*ddamn sense. She tells him that she was lying, but she's not trying to escape, that she doesn't want to see the nightmare she's been having. She supposedly wanted to commit suicide, and dammit I want her to. He tells her that if she tries to do this again, he'll make her nightmares come true.
A homeless man is walking down an alley, and Bruce meets up with Selina, to get her help. She berates him for what he doesn't know, then walks away, and he follows her.
That woman who was running that deli/bakery/bar is consoling her daughter when Penguin walks in and wants to discuss terms.
Bullock and Gordon talk to Nygma about that piece of evidence that never got found, and it seems that Bullock has some experience with Milo Ventimiglia, which brings us to a flashback where that woman he's holding hostage has cooked for him, and he's being disturbingly polite. Milo Ventimiglia is this show's best villain since the Electrocutioner. Why have all the good villains in this show been in the back half of the season?
Anyway, Milo Ventimiglia takes some photographs of the woman, using an old Polaroid, then he pulls out a knife and says "Don't worry, sooner or later, I'll find her", referring to this "the one" he's looking for. If this is his idea of finding the right woman...
Penguin and the Right Hand Fatman talk about that building that Penguin just got from the one woman, and it turns out that it's where he's going to kill Maroni. Huh.
Fish is still alive, and she's leading people out of the building. She tells them not to leave her as she goes to find one of the other patients, but she's not moving all that fast. Dullmacher's there, and he's ready to kill her, but... Dammit. The inmates beat the crap out of him.
The Catcher shows up, ready to round up the other escaping inmates, and they find out that they've been used as a distraction, so that Fish and the inmates that just beat the sh*t out of Dullmacher can escape with the helicopter. The Catcher and his men gun down the bait inmates. He then takes aim and... shoots Fish through the helicopter door. Yes, please let her die!
Bullock explains Milo Ventimiglia to Gordon, telling him all that they know, that he's known as "The Ogre", and he's practically a ghost story. Bullock asks Gordon why he's doing anything with this case, and Gordon tells him that a fellow officer asked him to check it out, and Bullock asks which one.
Bruce and Selina find Reggie, who's passed out drunk in an abandoned building that's likely home to the homeless. Bruce asks him questions, but Reggie doesn't really want to answer them. Then, he finally does, once Selina steals his medication and threatens to throw it out the window. Reggie tells Bruce that there's nothing he can do to stop the man he's been working for, and then Selina pushes him out the window. Bruce is stunned.
Gordon and Bullock find the guy who gave Gordon the case, and shove him into a locker and ask him what he knows. Loeb made him do it, knowing that Gordon wouldn't resist going after the case. Bullock then tells Gordon to get away from the case, to save both his own life and Leslie's. Gordon calls Leslie and leaves a message, then he goes after Loeb and tells him that after he deals with the Ogre, he's coming after Loeb.
Maybe not but she's not exactly loved either.
Annoying isn't it?
Anyway, we're now... along a bridge? A guy who looks to be a mutant comes up on Bruce and demands to know why he's there, but then Selina shows up and scares the sh*t out of him. Bruce and Selina have an arguement over Selina killing that dude Alfred was friends with last week, then Bruce remembers that one piece of information that everyone overlooked and hatches a plan with Selina, who's very much threatening Bruce now.
Then we're in the coroner's office, and... damn, Nygma is playing with the coroner's equipment to slice watermelon. Gordon busts in and demands to know where Leslie is without any riddles, and Nygma tells him she went home. Now we're in Leslie's apartment, and there's a noise, but it's not Gordon, it's apparently a cat. The best part of this scene is Morena Baccarin in a towel. Then, she hits somebody who comes up behind her, and it's Gordon, because he made the trip from the GCPD precinct to her apartment in all of 48 seconds. Gordon explains to her why he has the Ogre's case and why she's in danger, and then asks her to leave. Like Barbara, she says no, and tells him to do his job because she's gonna do hers. Where the hell is Milo Ventimgilia?
Oh, there he is. At a bar. He's about to get a new victim.
We're back from commercial and... Y'know, now that I think about it, what the hell happened to Bar - Oh, wait. Milo Ventimiglia is actually seducing Barbara. Good. Kill her. Kill her now! Y'know, it's sad when I don't recognize her, but she's been so... stupid. Dammit, he's not gonna kill her since she doesn't have a boyfriend, is he? Clearly, somebody told him that Barbara was Gordon's girlfriend.
Anyway, we're at the Iceberg Lounge, and he's dancing with his mother, then he starts talking to an Irishman, trying to get him to be the crew that takes out Maroni for him, but the Irishman won't do it. Then he will, after a little conversation about being number 2.
Gordon and Bullock talk to another cop, apparently the first cop to hunt the Ogre. He doesn't really want to help, because he's clearly afraid. Gordon cries for compassion, then he gives info, leading them to a cosmetics place. The Ogre is watching Gordon, it seems.
Nygma goes to speak with his maybe or maybe not girlfriend, sees her kissing a cop. It seems he's there to get stuff for Gordon, and he notices her bruises. Nygma is clearly angry at the cop that just left, and he's probably going to do something creepy.
Bruce is doing... something... in the one room of Wayne Manor that isn't the dining room or the kitchen (seriously, there appear to be but three rooms in that giant mansion, and one staircase that leads to all three of them) and Alfred walks in. Bruce says he's going to that Wayne Enterprises charity ball. Bruce and Alfred then have a little "conversation" about the fact that Bruce is bringing Selina with him.
Gordon and Bullock get o the cosmetics place, and they speak to the one man who apparently talks and he tells them to get a warrant. They go outside and Gordon recognizes the Ogre's car, and he tries to run them down. They go back to the precinct and Milo Ventimiglia calls him, threatens him. He gives Gordon his one and only warning, then hangs up. Gordon, Essen and Bullock conspire off-screen, and then it's time for a press conference. Gordon talks to them, with Leslie in the background. He tells them that he'll give them information about the women the Ogre has murdered, and the case itself, and tells the Ogre through the TV that he's not gonna stop.
Selina talks to Barbara, and Barbara's outright shocked that Selina's going to the ball with Bruce. In comes the clothes, and Selina's not impressed. Barbara is. Gordon and Bullock get a lead. Now we're at the Iceberg Lounge, and Maroni is charming Penguin's mother. I hate the fact that Penguin's mother is even involved in this.
Now we're back at Barbara's apartment, and Bruce shows up and talks to Barbara, then Selina comes out in her awkward prostitute dress (seriously, she looks like a prostitute) and is still not very impressed. Gordon and Bullock get to where they're going and save a man from being hung. Bullock goes to check the house while Gordon cuffs the hanging man to a table. Gordon examines some pictures and notices that some faces are scratched out. Bullock finds a dead body and introduces her to Gordon.
Selina's clearly not having a good time at that ball, and Bruce says it's because he's the G*ddamn Ba - oh, wait, no he doesn't. Anyway, now we're back at the place that Gordon and Bullock went to, and it appears Milo Ventimiglia is the son of the guy they found being hung. According to the butler, Milo Ventimiglia made one mistake and the rest are lies, so Gordon and Bullock ask for the truth.
Selina and Bruce are having that same damn conversation from the beginning, in the middle of a room full of people who are very much within earshot, and Selina says she'll kill somebody again if she damn well has to, whether Bruce will or not.
Riddler Romance Hour again, and he's giving that cop a riddle, and gets angry. The cop tells him to calm down, and that Nygma can't do sh*t to him, then leaves. Back at the party, Milo Ventimiglia shows up and asks Barbara if she wants to dance. Now the butler explains to the cops that Milo Ventimiglia thought he was that rich lady's son, and when he found out he wasn't, he went nuts, killed her, and has become a serial killer, which the butler laughs at. He shows them the pictures he has of his son, and Gordon ties things together: the cosmetics place (which is a surgical office) performed surgery on the Ogre to make him more attractive. He was a hideous freak beforehand, and now he's Milo Ventimiglia.
Penguin's mom is drunk as hell, and Maroni doesn't look entertained anymore. Penguin's really not entertained. Maroni asks Penguin's mother if she's acting or if she really doesn't know that he's a whackjob. Penguin doesn't want her to hear this, but Maroni keeps laying it on her. Where the hell did all this come from? Oh well, Maroni pays and the leaves.
Back to Milo Ventimiglia and Barbara, who are dancing. He's laying on the charm. Now we're by an El-train track, and a woman is going home. Somebody watches her. Was it Leslie? I couldn't tell. Anyway, back to Milo and Barbara, and he's telling her that he knows how she feels, that he's just the same, and this starts to creep her out. Then he asks her if she's afraid of hiding, and she says yes and suddenly his seduction tactics have succeeded.
Bruce talks to one of the people who has keys while Selina steals the keys. Bruce is impressed. That's when Selina sees Barbara going home with Milo Ventimiglia, and she looks.. concerned. Oh, Nygma was the guy in the car, watching his girlfriend go home, and now waiting for the cop to show up. He threatens the cop, and then the cop punches him in the gut. He's about to do it again and Nygma shanks him but good. It appears as though the Riddler is born, everybody.
Okay, Penguin is sitting down with his mother, trying to get her to think everything Maroni said was bullsh*t, but she knows it's not and asks him not to lie to her. I cannot tell what time of day it is outside the window, but it appears to be midday. Anyway, he lies to her, and she walks away crying. He cries, and then he tells a man who has no business truly telling Maroni what he wants him to tell Maroni, and then Penguin shanks the guy with glass and drags the body away.
Now we're at the precinct, and the Gates of Hell appear to be right out the window. Gordon, Bullock and Essen talk about the Ogre, and Gordon realizes that what the Ogre said came from a newspaper that had a picture of him with Barbara. So he goes to Barbara's apartment, where it's pitch black nighttime, and asks Selina if the drawing of the Ogre that they have is who Barbara left the charity ball with, and she says it is.
Barbara is having a drink with the Ogre, and she asks about a room. He tells her to go in there, and she finds the "special room" that he kills people in.
I'm guessing there's a batcave reveal next week.
I just realized... There was no Fish this week. YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Wheelchair? Most of them will be dead.
Now before Agent and others boo this idea
Batman/Gordon's first act is killing Fish.
:D
Batman versus the zombies?