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Ironically, @HildebrandRarity uses the Oscars in the above post to get one over on John Barry with his beloved Bill Conti. Kaufman, the same director that Clint Eastwood fired from Josey Wales for being incompetent. Yeah, we can all piece together tenuous incidences to prove someone is superior. Besides, the Right Stuff soundtrack wasn’t released upon its cinematic debut due to the movie being such a box office bomb, despite its critical acclaim and awards. Yeah, like they matter, right? Not that it bothered Barry as the following year he won an Oscar for Out of Africa, which now sits in fifteenth place in the American Film Institute's list of top 25 American film scores of all time and with the Right Stuff nowhere to be seen. I notice you left that bit of info out @HildebrandRarity. I wonder why? Why not take him to task over his Oscar nonsense @boldfinger?
Of course there’s a marked difference between selecting a singer/band to perform the title song and the composer for B25. Firstly, Conti co-wrote the FYEO song back in ‘81, but that doesn’t tend to happen with modern Bond movies anymore, apart from the occasional Arnold contribution. Secondly, the music charts are completely different nowadays to the early Eighties, you know, when an artist actually had to sell over a million copies to get a number one compared to only a few thousand downloads today? Though I do share your concerns about who might perform the title song, I have little doubt it’ll be an artist I don’t particularly care for. However, give me Depeche Mode with Alan Wilder back in the band and I’ll be happy.
If he get replaced i think he wil possible not complete replaced, so we get then something like Dam Romer and Craig Armstrong / Craig Armstrong and Dan Romer.
Dan Romer and David Arnold
Dan Romer and Daniel Pemberton
Overall i exspect also composer wil bring in something special/local music of Jamaica and Cuba.
And to mention one quite famous of replacing a composer was Bernard Herrmann being fired by Hitchcock himself for the score of TORN CURTAIN. As many might know (ot not), Herrmann was a composer, who would not take a compromise regarding his scores (apparently he once saw Jerry Goldsmth on the other side of the street in New York, and it is said he yelled across the streets "Another composer who does not orchestrate his scores by himself" - Goldsmith's orchestrators at this time were Alexander Courage and Arthur Morton) . Universal approached Hitchcock asking him, to come up mwith another composer for TORN CURTAIN; whose soundtrack would also sell very well on records, and even wouöd have liked to have theme song - after the great success of the Bond soundtracks and the theme songs. Hitchcok inisted on Herrmann, but promised to talk to Herrmann about this matter, and asked him to do a more "commercial score", maybe with a theme song. Herrmann agreed, but never planned to do so, but on the other hand came up with a score, which consisted only of drums, percussions, trumpets, horns, trombones, etc. When Hitchcock saw this, he fired Herrmann on the spot, and would never work with Herrmann again.
Herrmann's score then actually were used by Martin Scorsese for his Cape Fear remake in 1992, the whole score was a redo of Herrmann's music being arranged by Elmert Bernstein.
And another famous case is Alex North's score for Kubrick's 2001. Kubrick told hin, what he had in mind, mentionimg Strauss' waltz, Zarathustra, Ligeti, etc. North cvomposed and recorded a soundtrack and handed it in. When he visited the premiere, he found out, that nothing he had written actually made it into the movie with Kubrick using the original music he instructed North to use as an inspiration.
I stand corrected if I was mistaken about the zeitgeist of the FYEO score. And I didn´t think this thought of mine was such a heavy hitter that it needed proof to back it up. I thought it was just a thought, you know, not a "claim".
If you´re not sure that it was me, but don´t care anyhow, it will of course be not easy to have a reasonable discussion.
"My" beloved Bill Conti? I don't care at all for Conti, and I don't like the soundtrack to FYEO. I had even never mentioned Conti until this post. Please refrain from attributing people opinions they just don't have.
My point was just that, in the industry, composers get replaced on a finger snap, even an established composer such as John Barry. And I clearly told that Barry was probably used by Kaufman as an excuse to explain production delays (which is what Barry stated in an interview). Yet, even if Conti's score isn't one of the top 25 AMERICAN FILM SCORES OF ALL TIME, he still managed to come together with a fine score in weeks that even got him an Oscar.
So, even if Romer were fired (and apart from the source of the rumor, there's little evidence that suggests so), that doesn't mean that No Time to Die would be a doomed production, as composers often take a couple of months to come up with a full score, sometimes less if they have to come up with a new score to replace somebody else. This is standard practice in the industry, it's just that there hasn't been such a situation in a Bond film so far.
Actually, a few years ago, I was a witness to such a situation. I visited the AIR Studios in London during a press visit put together by Pioneer. During this visit, the main studio, the one that was formerly a church, was being used for the recording of The Fantastic Mr. Fox score by Mark Mothersbaugh (the leader from Devo, who had written the score to every Wes Anderson so far). Months later, the film is completed, with a score by Alexandre Desplat, who's now Anderson's main composer. Yet Mothersbaugh and Anderson are still in good terms, and Mothersbaugh is even writing songs for Anderson's next film.
He’s a bit too dead, isn’t he?
Oh, so this was the reason, they replaced him? Maybe then they can revive John Barry?
Yes, I know but he got replaced by Zimmer before his death, BR 2049 came out in October, and he died in February 2018. On YouTube you can find 1-2 pieces he wrote for BR 2049.
Romer doesn't seem to have a definitive style. His Beasts score for CJF is quite different that the one for Maniac. Bottom line is, I trust CJF and his vision for this film, and apparently so do Babs and Michael. I have watched True Detective three times since CJF got the job for NTTD, and I have to say: the guy just knows what he wants, in all facets. If he thinks Romer will deliver the score he wants/needs for this film, I have no reason to doubt him. :)
Been wondering myself if there's any merit to those rumors?
I just wanted to make it clear what was musically fashionable (popular) in ‘81. Capturing the musical zeitgeist would’ve been a sound akin to Spandau Ballet, Ultravox, Depeche Mode, Soft Cell, The Human League or Duran Duran (in other words futuristic). Film score-wise it would’ve been Vangelis with Chariots of Fire. I’ll admit that the cheaply-scored synth sound had already begun to replace the lush orchestral one of the previous decade (with the exception of Williams, Barry and Goldsmith), mostly probably due to budgetary reasons rather than creative ones. FYEO can be added to that same list, but for a different reason, especially as a Bond score needs to sound grand and bombastic rather than sleazy and unfashionable. That’s really only the point I wanted to make.
That's the nature of the Internet, @bondsum, not our fault. This forum was a different entity in 2002 than it is today, like every forum out there. The coming of antisocial media like fb and Twitter has effectively established a new--and lower--form of communication. But don't blame the forum for that; blame the way Millenials have learned to minimize their efforts in getting a message through. Blame fb, blame Twitter, blame Instagram for teaching people how to give others the finger via two or three mouse clicks. Blame those media for being a digital den for the dopamine addicted. But don't blame us.
Forums were always dealt their share of less capable communicators, of clowns and attention-seeking toddlers, of spammers and trolls. The only difference is that the tools have changed. They used to form sentences in the past; now they post links to something or, as you correctly point out, use memes to terminate an otherwise fruitful discussion. Please don't think for a moment that I'm happy with some of our threads being mere collections of YT videos and Tweets. We're no archive of Internet links; we are a discussion forum, after all, yet some threads have lost the interaction dimension and are now mere sequences of TY videos. Members post other people's opinions via Tweets and such because they have unlearned to form their own. "Want to know how I feel about SF? Well: [insert YT video made by some random bloke we've never met]." Debating has become a lost art. But don't blame this forum.
However, while all of that is infuriating, your negativity is fortunately also misplaced. I hear what you're saying, friend, but good members who take the time and effort to type out quality posts are still in a majority. The rest can be flagged or ignored. There's only one thing that even the best of our members struggle with, and that is to accept that others may have a different opinion altogether. Sadly, even the best and brightest sometimes fail to cope with that, and then, yes, the forum gets blamed too sometimes. That's more or less the only thing I get mad about. "So and so disagree with me; mods, do something! Mods, why aren't you banning this member for disagreeing with me? Okay, that's it, I'm outa here!". Seriously? State your arguments, have your say, but no matter how solid your case, if the other one refuses to yield: oops. Nothing you or we can do about that. This isn't a courtroom. Rule number 1 of every Internet forum ought to be: "Accept and tolerate the fact that others, even in the light of compelling evidence or waterproof arguments, may simply not conform to your opinion, no matter what you say or do; they may not even give it an honest try." Trust me, it's frustrating. As an atheist and a scientist, I know what I'm talking about. ;-) But that's how it is.
My point it, @bondsum, don't blame the forum. Any Internet forum thrives on the input of its finest members since the rest can be deleted and ignored. The vast majority of our members are people I still proudly call the finest of the finest. I think we're good. But even the cleanest of streets get trashed sometimes; you can then get worked up over the trash, or dispose of it in the nearest bin. The first method brings out the worst in all of us, the second makes us shrug off a minor frustration fast and move on in a happy way.
Now then, you've got a good debate going. Keep up the good work!
Or Brexit, ey, @Getafix? ;-)
Yes, I know the feeling. You and I are gods amidst this vermin. They'll never know how close they came to eternal wisdom. ;)
ANYWAY, music! Yes, Dan Romer and all. Proceed, please.
Wow. That post should be a disclaimer on every internet discussion forum out there. Wonderful read.
"No Time To Die (We Strengthen Our Bond)", Ryan James Swift.
👍
You got a ******* emoji out of me.
As always @DarthDimi nail and head.
First of all, I feel that Eon has become incapable of hiring people who have some deeper personal connection with the series. One example is having the new Bond women talking about empowered female rolls that the series has never seen. I mean, I just rewatched 'YOLT' for the nth time, and it reminded me of empowered female characters like Aki or Kissy. I don't think Harris, Lynch or Armas know anything about the classics. If you watch interviews with them, they mostly quote Craig's films, which makes me believe that they're clueless about the legacy. Anyway, my point is that if some of these people really knew the films, they wouldn't try to take credit for 're-inventing' the wheel.
Just as some of the actors are clueless, so are the recent composers. In my opinion, Thomas Newman brought in some extremely lackluster scores, and hearing some of Romer's work, I bet he'd deliver something fairly generic too. Aside from perhaps Arnold, hasn't someone like Newman heard the charismatic, bombastic nature of Barry's scores? I mean, I understand we're no longer in the 20th century, but so what? Barry's music had so much pizzaz and personality that it felt like an omniscient character in every film that he scored.
It takes a passionate vision to make something special. You can't just phone it in...
To quote Luciana Paluzzi in 1965:
"[Fiona is] like a female James Bond. She lives like he does. She's 100% per cent feminine but able to do the things he does."
I honestly think these composers are familiar with the musical legacy. One would have to be living under a rock not to hear and recognise the Bond sound; and when hired, it's unlikely they don't, at the very least, study what's come before.
My belief is simply this: we're longing for another John Barry, but one doesn't just become another John Barry. It takes a John Barry to deliver the Barry. Even Arnold, who appears to be enjoying a bit of a reappraisal now, was once upon a time considered a wannabe John Barry who just never got it right.
I agree that you can't phone it in, but we don't know what these men are told to do. I'm sure they can all do something incredibly "Bondian", but we also want to avoid pastiche and blind rethreads. I rather have a composer doing what he excels at than creating an artificial "Bond sound" like Alf Clausen's McBain theme from The Simpsons, but without hitting the right notes for the film. It's merely up to the producers to find that one talented composer who's good at delivering Bond music, whatever that means. ;-) I guess we'll see what Romer will deliver and applaud or complain after the fact.
I don’t think you have to have watched every Bond film to play a Bond girl. Honestly, what are you going to learn from Dink or Brit Ekland squealing in a car boot? Just be an actor, do the script and follow the direction. It isn’t the fact that there are dozens of other films that makes the foot chase in Casino Royale exciting, or the race to save M from Silva tense: it’s that these are well-made films.
In terms of the composers, as said above the likelihood of a professional film composer being unaware of the work of John Barry is absolutely zero.