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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    There was the scene with him talking with Mathis (I think they were on a private plane) and Bond had SIX of those Vesper Martini's. He was undoubtedly drinking from depression, but then again he didn't 'seem' all that drunk. Any of us sure would have been....
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    JBFan626 wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??

    That was kind of my reaction. Then again I haven't seen it in a year or two.


    Ditto that! When was he drunk? I thought maybe the cameraman was drunk during the opening car chase sequence, or perhaps the editors in post production.

    ....No, never drink on duty!! :-B
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I wouldn't say Flemingesque completely. Bond drinks in moderation, and rarely to get drunk. I love that scene on the plane though, because Bond's hurt is so visible, and he thinks drinking away his problems is a good solution for that time. As the film ends we see he has grown from such behavior.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    There was the scene with him talking with Mathis (I think they were on a private plane) and Bond had SIX of those Vesper Martini's. He was undoubtedly drinking from depression, but then again he didn't 'seem' all that drunk. Any of us sure would have been....

    Ahh yes...another example of undeveloped direction and writing in QOS. We're supposed to assume he is drinking out of depression and battling his demons, dealing with his grief and what not, yet, this idea is barely dealt with at all.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    There was the scene with him talking with Mathis (I think they were on a private plane) and Bond had SIX of those Vesper Martini's. He was undoubtedly drinking from depression, but then again he didn't 'seem' all that drunk. Any of us sure would have been....

    Ahh yes...another example of undeveloped direction and writing in QOS. We're supposed to assume he is drinking out of depression and battling his demons, dealing with his grief and what not, yet, this idea is barely dealt with at all.
    One of the noticeable issues QoS has is that there is too much room for interpretation. We have to decide for ourself why Bond is drinking, or how Bond feels about Vesper at the film's close, or just how Greene was killed. Moments like that are great, but please have them in low supply. There are too many moments in QoS where I am left scratching my head as to why Bond did what he did, or why an event happened.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited May 2012 Posts: 1,778
    I wouldn't say he was drunk per-se but that might be my favorite scene in the film. I loved it. It just reeked of Fleming as that's exactly what the literary Bond would do given the circumstances. Plus after all that action it was nice to have a quite scene between the 2 characters.

    And yes it was bold. It seems whenever we see heroes drunk it's played up for humor instead the sad reality it can be.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Pierce was drunk in TND. Precedence had already been set.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,335
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    One of the noticeable issues QoS has is that there is too much room for interpretation. We have to decide for ourself why Bond is drinking, or how Bond feels about Vesper at the film's close, or just how Greene was killed. Moments like that are great, but please have them in low supply. There are too many moments in QoS where I am left scratching my head as to why Bond did what he did, or why an event happened.

    Very much agreed. I don't know if it was because he wasn't totally comfortable with the finished script, but Forster cut out of many scenes far too early for my taste.

    The worst for me is the very choppy jump cut from when Bond starts out after Greene in the desert to Bond tossing Greene out of the car. Did they just not shoot enough footage?
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited May 2012 Posts: 1,778
    Kerim wrote:
    Pierce was drunk in TND. Precedence had already been set.

    If you're referring to the hotel scene I don't think there was anything in that scene that suggested he was drunk. I never once even heard anyone even mention that suggestion until just now. Im pretty sure he wasn't drunk off those vodka shots.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    Kerim wrote:
    Pierce was drunk in TND. Precedence had already been set.

    If you're referring to the hotel scene I don't think there was anything in that scene that suggested he was drunk. I never once even heard anyone even mention that suggestion until just now. Im pretty sure he wasn't drunk off those vodka shots.

    I wouldn't have said he was drunk either. But I do like that scene:

    "well...we know where you stand...you made your bed!!"

    Oddly, I remember reading somewhere that Fleming said Bond should never be depicted as drunk - despite the fact he drinks heavily. Is this true?

    The closest we saw Bond to "drunk" was the opening of the YOLT book as far as I recall.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    One of Bond's defining characteristics is his stamina and huge capacity for alcohol. Bond does not get 'drunk'.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    One of Bond's defining characteristics is his stamina and huge capacity for alcohol. Bond does not get 'drunk'.

    Wow. I agree with you.
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    Tipsy is the word.


    But Fleming's Bond wasn't averse to drunkenness. When his flight to London is cancelled in Miami he decides to get seriously drunk, something he wasn't properly for years despite the many double bourbons he consumes. And he's also setting sights on picking up a tart that will have to carry him to his bed.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 107</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>NSNA isn't part of the official series despite MGM buying its distribution rights .</b></font>
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    It never was and never shall be............... But remember.............. Never say never again. O:-)
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    So is the Thuderball remake offical....

    OF COURSE NOT!!!!!!!!!
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,152
    Despite being something of a guilty pleasure for me, NSNA will never be part of the official Bond series.
    It's like a forgotten relative who we rarely speak of. But as I say, when I do see it, there is quite alot to enjoy. There's also quite alot to loath. A welcome return to Bondian duties for Connery, but never again. Obviously.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Regardless of what MGM does, I will never treat it as such.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    I don't dwell on it too much-- it sits separately from the rest on the Bond movies on my shelf, but that's mostly because the labels don't match :P

    It's got Sean Connery playing James Bond, so it's a damn Bond movie
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Thunderball 2 should ne ver be considered an official Bond film.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Agree. Its not a part of the official series. Its all about Eon owning everything on the screen that has been made involving these charactors. If you are saying it is then you may as well say the CR67 spoof is to be considered a serious entry in the series too? =))
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited May 2012 Posts: 12,837
    It might not be official but I still count it. Mainly because I really enjoyed it, even if it was basically TB. I didn't know it existed until the late 90s (when I'd already seen most of the Bond films). So it was cool discovering another Connery film and it was also cool seeing an older Bond (who admits he's old, not like in AVTAK). And Rowan Atkinson (aka Blackadder, Mr Bean, Johnny English), is in it, Max Von Sydow makes an awesome Blofeld, and for the first time ever Bond is on a motorbike.

    A much better send off than Connery got in DAF, and I think it's almost good as the original TB. Not sure if that's an agree or disagree.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    I don't think you can argue with this one. I agree.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    In my opinion, just because a character calls himself James Bond it doesn't make that film a Bond movie. The same happens with '67 Casino Royale and those Lazenby's movies. If they all are Bond, then I'm Arnold Palmer.
    So, I agree. Never Say Never Again will never be an official film nor a Bond film, from my point of view!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,719
    how can NSNA not be a Bond movie, when the main character of the film is James Bond ?

    Yes it's not an official Bond film, but it's still a Bond movie.
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    edited May 2012 Posts: 147
    Yes, I agree.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,335
    Agreed.

    I do think that NSNA influenced the Eon series a bit. Fatima Blush is kind of the proto-Xenia Onatopp.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 107</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>NSNA isn't part of the official series despite MGM buying its distribution rights .</b></font>

    No. It's clearly existing in "alternate Bond universe" since if he were the same Bond wouldn't he be suspicious about running into another SPECTRE plot involving hijacked nuclear weapons, a villain named Largo, a girl named Domino and going to Shrublands, battling someone named Lippe and romancing a physical therapist named Patricia Fearing? Deja vu indeed.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    No, it's not an official Bond release and doesn't try to be, Connery was just having some fun, it's a better non Bond than Casino Royale 67 for sure, but whenever I see it, even if the character is Bond, and it has all the fundamental ingredients that go with it, the bottom line is, it is not an actual Bond movie, wasn't at the time, isn't now, and I hope in years to come it is never treated as one
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well, it isn't being released in the big Bond 50 Blu-ray package, so your answer may lie there. /:)
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