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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,502
    Mallory wrote: »
    Its interesting that, to my ears, there is more obvious Bond theme in both of Newman’s efforts (Skyfall in particular) than NTTD.

    Yep, agreed. A few hints which were nice, but not always that Bond-y.
    I also think that although Eilish's theme song seems quite present in the album version, in the film I only really noticed it making fairly short appearances about twice- it's not really woven through.
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It did take me out of certain scenes at times because all I could think is this Majesty's, rather than what the scene was conveying.
    I like the little callback to Vesper because it was just that, little.
    The overuse of the OHMSS theme makes me wish we had something new in its place, that we could cling to and say this is "Madeline's theme" or it's NTTD's theme.

    Ending the film on ALTITW was a mistake to my mind, it was undeserved here. It should have played over the credits in OHMSS

    I'm not a massive fan of the re-use of music (imagine if Newman had done it! The stick he would get!) but I thought that song did work brilliantly at the end and nearly made me tear up.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,502
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Zimmer has a few standout cues, but I think Newman’s SF is the overall better score. It has more variety and flavor to it. That said, Zimmer and his team had a very short window to make the score, so in a lot of ways it’s compromised.

    Would be interesting if they ask Zimmer back and he has more development time to flesh out a wholly original score.

    Yep, agreed with all of that. I'm not in love with the score, but I'd be happy to have him back because he's Zimmer, and it's not without reason that he's one of the most celebrated composers around; and I think there's not a moment where the score doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do and evoke the reactions from the audience that it's supposed to in the finished film.
    Mallory wrote: »
    Even Arnold, the biggest fan of Barry going, didnt dare touch the master’s actual work, beyond the Bond theme itself.

    Well he did nick a couple of bits from FRWL and OHMSS in the very first track we heard from him(!), but I know what you mean :)
  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,166
    @mtm r.e. the Eilish song.

    Most (nearly all) Bond theme songs are songs for the film, so can be used in a variety of different applications in their soundtracks,

    The Eilish theme is so laser focused on the Bond and Madeleine relationship (it lyrics almost exclusively refer to it) that to use it outside of that would be weird.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,502
    Mallory wrote: »
    @mtm r.e. the Eilish song.

    Most (nearly all) Bond theme songs are songs for the film, so can be used in a variety of different applications in their soundtracks,

    The Eilish theme is so laser focused on the Bond and Madeleine relationship (it lyrics almost exclusively refer to it) that to use it outside of that would be weird.

    But then they spend a lot of time together, or thinking or making reference to their relationship -which is the most important story aspect in the movie- , and even then it's barely there.
    But let's not forget that the objection was always 'the song should be woven throughout the score'- for LTK, GE, SF, QoS, Sp etc. and it's not really woven throughout this one either. Marginally moreso than those, but it only appears two or three times in a noticeable way. FYEO feels like the song is properly woven throughout, but according to David Arnold on his show it only makes four appearances (not sure if that's true or not, and I don't know if it includes the two-note opening motif), but NTTD feels a lot more absent from this score than that song to me.

    Don't get me wrong: I don't actually mind. But it seems odd to me that to those who this was very important to, and who were very angry at Newman for not doing, it's suddenly okay.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Probably my second favourite score of the Craig era, or at least tied with QOS. I can see why the OHMSS nods might be too much for some, but I personally loved it. At the very least, the themes weren't overused which was good. I had listened to the soundtrack prior to seeing the film so I mostly knew what to expect, but hearing Vesper's theme was lovely (having just finished a Craig marathon). Initially I was disappointed that the gun barrel cue didn't use the main riff of the Bond theme, but after seeing the film I perfectly understand why. Good stuff! Zimmer and company did a fine job.
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    Strong effort by Zimmer and Mazzaro, although the score works better in the film than as an album (like all scores since Barry's days, I'd say). The blunt use of music from OHMSS was jarring at first, but melted me at the film's end. To keep things fresh until my next viewing in a week or two, I've made an eclectic little NTTD playlist based on music in the film and a few extras:

    1. Dans la ville endormie
    2. Matera
    3. No Time To Die
    4. Rastafari Way
    5. Boom Shot Dis (not in the film, but I still like it)
    6. Cumbua De Buanaventura
    7. Cuba Chase
    8. Home
    9. Final Ascent
    10. We Have All the Time in the World
    11. No Time To Die (orchestral arrangement)
    12. James Bond by Iggy Pop

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,575
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    There is Madeleine’s theme that Newman established. If they can use Vesper’s, they could have easily use Madeleine’s.



    IMO it reflects her character far better than WHATTITW.

    I agree completely.
    The only other piece of music I could picture for Madeline, is the beautiful piano during Secret Room on the Spectre soundtrack


    The cue that starts at 0.51 should have been Madeline's equivalent to Vesper's theme

    I actually thought that was Madeleine's theme, lol
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    There is Madeleine’s theme that Newman established. If they can use Vesper’s, they could have easily use Madeleine’s.



    IMO it reflects her character far better than WHATTITW.

    I agree completely.
    The only other piece of music I could picture for Madeline, is the beautiful piano during Secret Room on the Spectre soundtrack


    The cue that starts at 0.51 should have been Madeline's equivalent to Vesper's theme

    I actually thought that was Madeleine's theme, lol

    The two of them are merged beautifully during the End Titles cue.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,054
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Yes, I loved the WHATTITW references when I heard them on the album at first (and said as much on here). They're beautiful, lush and romantic as they always were and Zimmer did a good job recreating them.

    But then, hearing them in the film, my instincts were "Oh this just doesn't feel right." The use of the song title in dialogue more than once also caused a groan for me, but that's another matter.

    I did love Madeleine's theme from SP, too. It had a wispy, lonely quality to it that fit the character.

    +1
    I know theres a lot more things to be discussing/debating about NTTD
    But reusing WHATTITW in the film just didnt feel right for me either!
    When I do my annual Christmas watch of OHMSS this year, and that music appears, I will be distracted by its use in NTTD!

    I am undecided about Zimmer's score in general. It didn't leave an impression on me beyond a feeling that my general thoughts about Zimmer scores (generic, industrial, computer-generated) were vindicated close to the end. Forgettable as all the other Zimmer scores. And congratulations to him for making a shitload of money by knowing how to program a computer (and I mean it, no hard feelings, no envy, but no adminration beyond that, either).

    Reusing WHATTITW was justified nevertheless. I think I wrote this before, but the first time around, with them both travelling in the Aston V8 I thought that this was the harbinger of death (no, I didn't know they would kill off Bond in the end by then). If they used the song from OHMSS no fan could expect this to end well. If this was the purpose, they succeeded with me It's not laziness (especally not on Zimmer's side, since I'm sure the producers had a word in this, and as I said above, I'm not a Zimmer fan) but it was on purpose. They wanted at least those long-time Bond fans to be aware of what would happen, and it was pretty clear it was not yet another killing-off of a Bond female partner.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    The music, when Safin arrives at the house to kill Madeleine, is not on the soundtrack. I don't mean the French chanson, but the score. Does anybody per chance know the piece? Appreciated.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    The music, when Safin arrives at the house to kill Madeleine, is not on the soundtrack. I don't mean the French chanson, but the score. Does anybody per chance know the piece? Appreciated.

    I think @antovolk posted a link to it on the previous page. It's not on the album but it is on Mazzaro's website.
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 838
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    Gradually warming up to Zimmer's (and Mazzaro's) score I must admit. Favorite track is probably 'I'll Be Right Back'. It combines some of the finer motifs all in the one track, even if it does sound a bit like TDK towards the end. Still not a fan of relying on Barry's OHMSS themes though.

    My OST rankings for Craig's films -

    1. Casino Royale
    2. Quantum of Solace
    3. No Time To Die
    4. Skyfall
    5. SPECTRE

    My ranking is probably the same, although worth noting QOS/NTTD are more of a 2A/2B, and there's a big jump between 4 and 5.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Listened to it several times; sadly, lacking in any classic dynamic Bond sound. (See "Backseat Driver" and "Surrender" from TND.)
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    The music, when Safin arrives at the house to kill Madeleine, is not on the soundtrack. I don't mean the French chanson, but the score. Does anybody per chance know the piece? Appreciated.
    I'm going to have to listen to the vinyl edition again now that I've seen the film but I think it's one of the bonus tracks.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,193
    Mr ranking of Craig era soundtracks:

    1. SKYFALL
    2. SPECTRE
    3. NO TIME TO DIE
    4. QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    5. CASINO ROYALE
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Strong effort by Zimmer and Mazzaro, although the score works better in the film than as an album (like all scores since Barry's days, I'd say). The blunt use of music from OHMSS was jarring at first, but melted me at the film's end. To keep things fresh until my next viewing in a week or two, I've made an eclectic little NTTD playlist based on music in the film and a few extras:

    1. Dans la ville endormie
    2. Matera
    3. No Time To Die
    4. Rastafari Way
    5. Boom Shot Dis (not in the film, but I still like it)
    6. Cumbua De Buanaventura
    7. Cuba Chase
    8. Home
    9. Final Ascent
    10. We Have All the Time in the World
    11. No Time To Die (orchestral arrangement)
    12. James Bond by Iggy Pop

    What version of Cumbua De Buanaventura is in the movie?
  • Bernie99Bernie99
    Posts: 256
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    The music, when Safin arrives at the house to kill Madeleine, is not on the soundtrack. I don't mean the French chanson, but the score. Does anybody per chance know the piece? Appreciated.

    https://www.stevemazzaro.com/news/no-time-to-die-unreleased-music
  • petergreenhill5petergreenhill5
    edited October 2021 Posts: 824
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  • Bernie99Bernie99
    Posts: 256
    We need a complete score, that cue where the ship launched the missiles is so fantasic, there's also the bond-theme in it
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    "Cuba chase" is a misleading title. Should have been called "Cuba shootout"
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    My ranking of the Craig era scores:

    QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    CASINO ROYALE

    ....and I put the other three on a very equally footing below those two, which is to say they're good but have some obvious flaws. Zimmer and Newman have very similar approaches to scoring an action picture, but the strengths of their respective Bond scores are opposite to each other. Newman's action scoring flatlined for me, but he excelled at the quieter moments. Zimmer's action scoring, as expected, is vibrant and exciting and full of cool whereas his lower-key cues pale in comparison with Newman's for me.

    SP/NTTD/SF
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,502
    My ranking (at the moment!) would be

    SF
    SP
    CR
    QoS
    NTTD

    Which is not to say I consider NTTD or any of the others to be bad, I just prefer how the top ones feel. I would possibly put NTTD higher, but I do like some of the tunes in the Arnolds.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Having watched the film twice, Zimmer’s score is superb. I would say that half the highlights are not even on the album.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Bernie99 wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    The music, when Safin arrives at the house to kill Madeleine, is not on the soundtrack. I don't mean the French chanson, but the score. Does anybody per chance know the piece? Appreciated.

    https://www.stevemazzaro.com/news/no-time-to-die-unreleased-music

    Cheers and thanks, mate!
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 838
    Bernie99 wrote: »
    We need a complete score, that cue where the ship launched the missiles is so fantasic, there's also the bond-theme in it

    On my third viewing I really noticed this, yes. By far and away the best cue that's missing from the official soundtrack and the one I want most.

    Although I'm glad we got Sain's opening attack. It's a close second for its atmospheric brilliance alone.

    I also love that little cue at night in the Matera hotel room that transitions to the acropolis the next morning, and the background music of the fight on the boat. If we had those four, I'd be missing nothing.
  • ZarozzorZarozzor
    Posts: 207
    I liked the soundtrack just listening to it on Spotify. But hearing it with the film made it pop even more.
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    vzok wrote: »
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Strong effort by Zimmer and Mazzaro, although the score works better in the film than as an album (like all scores since Barry's days, I'd say). The blunt use of music from OHMSS was jarring at first, but melted me at the film's end. To keep things fresh until my next viewing in a week or two, I've made an eclectic little NTTD playlist based on music in the film and a few extras:

    1. Dans la ville endormie
    2. Matera
    3. No Time To Die
    4. Rastafari Way
    5. Boom Shot Dis (not in the film, but I still like it)
    6. Cumbua De Buanaventura
    7. Cuba Chase
    8. Home
    9. Final Ascent
    10. We Have All the Time in the World
    11. No Time To Die (orchestral arrangement)
    12. James Bond by Iggy Pop

    What version of Cumbua De Buanaventura is in the movie?

    Cumbia de Buenaventura
    Written by Emilio Jury Moya
    Performed by La Sonora Matancera

    This is per IMDb, which I assume lists these details from the film's end titles.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Strong effort by Zimmer and Mazzaro, although the score works better in the film than as an album (like all scores since Barry's days, I'd say). The blunt use of music from OHMSS was jarring at first, but melted me at the film's end. To keep things fresh until my next viewing in a week or two, I've made an eclectic little NTTD playlist based on music in the film and a few extras:

    1. Dans la ville endormie
    2. Matera
    3. No Time To Die
    4. Rastafari Way
    5. Boom Shot Dis (not in the film, but I still like it)
    6. Cumbua De Buanaventura
    7. Cuba Chase
    8. Home
    9. Final Ascent
    10. We Have All the Time in the World
    11. No Time To Die (orchestral arrangement)
    12. James Bond by Iggy Pop

    What version of Cumbua De Buanaventura is in the movie?

    Cumbia de Buenaventura
    Written by Emilio Jury Moya
    Performed by La Sonora Matancera

    This is per IMDb, which I assume lists these details from the film's end titles.

    Thank you
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Is that the song that plays in the Jamacian night club?
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    Minion wrote: »
    Is that the song that plays in the Jamacian night club?

    No, it's from the Cuba scenes.
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