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To be fair, I was discussing this film on this thread for like a week before it finally hit the states. I didn’t mind reading spoilers, as I was interesting in discussing the merits of what NTTD was aiming for, rather than whether they succeeded or not. I left that kind of discussion to when I finally saw it.
What I mostly responded to was this conceit that the current filmmakers shouldn’t make certain creative choices just because a bunch of filmmakers from the 60s never did that. The whole “Cubby would never” mantra. I absolutely object to line of thinking. EON should absolutely be free to do whatever they want with the properties they own, to hell with what fans think is acceptable or not. Because the truth is there’s no way of pleasing EVERY fan out there. There will always be those who deem themselves purists whether it’s those who believe Connery is the only Bond that matters or that LTK was the last “true” Bond film because it was the last produced by Cubby.
Perhaps, but Bond is ultimately using death as a justification for hedonism. Bond wants to keep living to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of life.
Yes, of course! And persuasive up to a point ... I especially like the latter reference from SP. Doesn't Bond say, "I can protect her"?
But what I don't see is that unambiguous moment (or moments) where Bond clearly makes that "choice" in NTTD to sacrifice himself. I mean, a promise to protect someone that he has not yet met and the choice to sacrifice himself five years later in doing so are not the same thing.
We certainly aren't privy to any interior monologue at the end of NTTD, only what Bond says to both Q & Madeleine, including to the latter: "I'm not going to make it." Does the expression on his face as he says this indicate "choice." Hmmm, maybe; but highly ambiguous stuff, in itself.
And therein lies the artistry of the ending, in which we can each take a position on what we think is going on. At least I think we agree that Bond dies "heroically," which many here & elsewhere seem to question.
My point (sorry to belabor it) is that if he has made such a decision to sacrifice himself it must have been an ambiguously, at best, wordless one - we don't know, see or hear it for certain - and that, ultimately, it doesn't matter because events (the need to re-open the blast doors; the increasingly debilitating gunshot wounds and those oncoming missiles) have rendered it of no practical relevance.
Not only is there insufficient time to escape, I think - and this is where it does get particularly subjective for me - that Bond has the dawning awareness [from the opening strains of Zimmer's 'Final Ascent'] that he is going to die (and, yes, maybe also that it's for the best). So it is not that Bond chooses to die [he doesn't], he only accepts its soon-to-be inevitability, and finds consolation in both the survival of his family and the immediate legacy that is his daughter.
Lol, as I've already mentioned several times before in other posts on this site, I'm in a Covid Lockdown in Auckland New Zealand.
So reading peoples posts on this website are as close as I can get to experiencing the movie for the moment
And my reply posts are my "first reactions"
So thanks to everyone for sharing their views!
Now, let the cyber bullying begin...
EDIT: Ah, nevermind, I see, first reaction to our comments.
The most critical opinions of NTTD are all coming from people who haven't seen NTTD...
And a lot of them are coming from new members... just signed up to lambast a film they haven't seen in an online group of Bond fans? Or were you part of the surge that just wanted the leaked soundtrack link? Is it just for attention?
Hope you enjoy the movie when you see it!
Now you are just "poisoning the well", which is, sadly, an increasingly popular tactic in these "Trumpian" days...
I certainly got the impression "jetsetwilly" had seen the movie, and he is far from being a new member.
As for me, I've been a member since 2011 and I haven't said I dislike the movie, how can I, when I haven't seen it. When I do finally get to see it I may love it, but like most Bond movies, I'm sure there will still be aspects I will dislike and killing Bond will be one of them.
True dat, and well said, but you know what fans are like...
Fair enough. If I've misinterpreted your posts, I apologize. Trust me, I'm the furthest thing from a Trump supporter, if that's what you meant.
I suppose we're just extremely different; hard for me to imagine why a person who hasn't seen the film would spend so much time in this thread in particular, but I like to know as little as possible about a film before going in.
I'm sorry you haven't been able to see the film yet, that really sucks.
Especially because spies have a very short life expectancy…
Yeah. I was wondering why we were treated to an endless stream of “they just did it for shock value/they just did it to copy Marvel/etc”. Didn’t get it at all. I knew the ending would be divisive, because they killed James Bond, so of course some fans would be annoyed. But I was still surprised to see so many going on about how cheap and shocking it was, because, well, it wasn’t. Whether it was a good or bad ending is subjective obviously, and I knew there’d be debate over whether they should’ve gone there. But it made perfect sense in the context of the film, and the Craig era as a whole, so I really didn’t get why people were accusing them of just ripping off other franchises and going for shock value.
But those comments make sense now. Of course it’d seem cheap and shocking if you just read a plot summary online, and missed the whole film that builds up to that point. But why they bothered posting comment after comment debating the merits of that plot summary, for a film they haven’t even seen, is completely beyond me.
slide_99, not so much.
This confused me too. A lot of thought was clearly put into this movie and Craig's performance was magnificent. Had a hard time reconciling some of the posts I read with what I saw onscreen.
And it's not really as if anyone needs an excuse, everyone can do what they want, but... why?
Did I say *any* of what you just posted about being a bigger fan than anyone else? To try and be clear, I am more attached emotionally to the Craig Bond than the other Bonds. And that does affect how I feel about them killing him. Please don’t put words in my mouth @NickTwentyTwo.
I was merely seeking clarification, not accusing anyone of anything.
If you read my post, I just said I'd hate to see that you thought you were a bigger Bond fan than someone else because of how you reacted to the film, not that you outright said you were. I was making an inference on what you were saying.
No one is putting words in anyone's mouth. This has become such an antagonistic place.
I definitely don’t think that way. I think it’s petty when someone says “I’m a bigger fan of this and that than you are etc.” I think @Creasy47 said on night 1 of the release that this film would be “wildly divisive.” And he was 100% correct. I think we all need to just agree to disagree about NTTD. And I said I was going to quit posting on this thread (sigh , face palm). Some of my family and I are planning to watch NTTD tomorrow on PVOD. So, I’m hoping that I will see it differently or like it better. We’ll see I guess. The American rating for NTTD is 2 1/2 stars (per the on screen description guide). For what that’s worth. And @seve: you have every right to feel that the ending will be a big negative for you. You certainly aren’t alone.
2 1/2 out of 4 stars. It is generally when you view any movie on tv, a rating will appear. 4 stars is the best, like an all-time classic, etc. I just saw it when I pulled up the description. However, and I laugh as I write this, but Spectre was given 4 stars.
Then it will be one of those contradictions that we humans are famous for
Your third sentence explains your second sentence, I can't see the movie so I spend time here on the thread most likely to give me a fix, because I have no idea when I'll be able to go into a theatre to see it, if at all.
NB I wasn't trying to suggest you were a Trump supporter, just that his mode of behaviour has set a bad example in recent years, which, sadly, many have slipped into, not just those who support him.
Ah yes I saw that in your post, I didn’t know it was a rating that came up when you watch the movie on tv. I’m surprised NTTD has one at all as I don’t think it’s on tv anywhere yet.
It isn’t. It comes on my satellite network Dish tomorrow, starting at 5:30 am. The rating is already there. I skipped ahead on the guide and saw it. $19.99 for a 2 day rental. I’d upload a pic of it, but I’m not sure if it’s allowed etc.
Sorry for the double post. Accidental.
Does NTTD feature the old MI6 headquarters building that was in ruins by the end of SP at all?
I've been wondering if they were planning to rebuild it or move into new permanent premises in the Craig-Bond Universe?
Quite strange for me to still see the real headquarters, which also served as the fictional headquarters, fictionally destroyed and yet remain the real headquarters.
Of course, they could go back to Fleming and have the 00s occupying a small building separate from MI6. Probably not.