Star Trek (1966 - present)

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  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    Does anyone else think Gul Dukat is the most fleshed out Trek villain? Always loved his performances in DS9-wish he had been featured more. I don’t think the should would have had the same level of critical success without him.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 1,394
    Michael Burnham just cries all the time.Why is this show still being made?
    This is just season 2!


  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited November 2021 Posts: 25,120
    Has Netflix UK cancelled Discovery? not currently subscribed (I resub when content builds up)

    Paramount is slowly making their Trek content exclusive to their platform, as they’re supposed to launch it in the UK, which means they no longer need Netflix or Prime to distribute their shows internationally. For example, in the US they already took off TOS, TAS, VOY, and ENT.

    Disney did something similar with their Star Wars films and shows that were originally available on Netflix but soon we’re taken off and made exclusive on Disney+.

    Cheers just had a look and in the UK I will be able to watch Paramount Plus via Sky thankfully, though not available here until 2022.
    Does anyone else think Gul Dukat is the most fleshed out Trek villain? Always loved his performances in DS9-wish he had been featured more. I don’t think the should would have had the same level of critical success without him.

    Gul Dukat journey through the series was brilliant, one of my favourite Trek characters. Gul Dukat was out of his mind for the most part. Marc Alaimo was fantastic.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 8,183
    Dukat is probably my favorite antagonist in Trek. A bad guy who thinks he’s the hero of the story, and when his whole world falls apart he finally becomes honest and says “yeah, I hate bajorans and I should have killed them all”.
  • Posts: 526
    Dukat is probably my favorite antagonist in Trek. A bad guy who thinks he’s the hero of the story, and when his whole world falls apart he finally becomes honest and says “yeah, I hate bajorans and I should have killed them all”.

    Yes, @MakeshiftPython ! It’s during season 6, ‘Waltz’, when he’s stranded on the planet with Sisko that he goes full blown psycho. It’s as though the veneer of false belief is detonated and he becomes more dangerous than ever. In all of Trek, no villain is as developed as Dukat. The dialogue between Dukat and Sisko (where Dukat is on trial) is profound. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this dynamic and complex individual unfold over 7 years. Never missed an episode of DS9.
  • Posts: 526
    Has Netflix UK cancelled Discovery? not currently subscribed (I resub when content builds up)

    Paramount is slowly making their Trek content exclusive to their platform, as they’re supposed to launch it in the UK, which means they no longer need Netflix or Prime to distribute their shows internationally. For example, in the US they already took off TOS, TAS, VOY, and ENT.

    Disney did something similar with their Star Wars films and shows that were originally available on Netflix but soon we’re taken off and made exclusive on Disney+.

    Cheers just had a look and in the UK I will be able to watch Paramount Plus via Sky thankfully, though not available here until 2022.
    Does anyone else think Gul Dukat is the most fleshed out Trek villain? Always loved his performances in DS9-wish he had been featured more. I don’t think the should would have had the same level of critical success without him.

    Gul Dukat journey through the series was brilliant, one of my favourite Trek characters. Gul Dukat was out of his mind for the most part. Marc Alaimo was fantastic.

    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns definietly agree. No matter who Dukat interacted with, he was great. I loved In ‘Way of the Warrior‘, where he has to cooperate with Garak, and defend the Civilian Govt together; even though they hate each other’s guts. That’s one of my favorite episodes. The action and story chemistry is entrancing.
  • Posts: 1,394
    I gave up on DS9 about midway through its second season.It just wasn’t Star Trek to me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    Has Netflix UK cancelled Discovery? not currently subscribed (I resub when content builds up)

    It's showing on Pluto TV tomorrow (Friday) night at 9pm, which I believe is free to watch (with ads though I presume) and you watch it through through its app on your Smart TV/Amazon stick etc. It is a live broadcast with no catch up though, so you have to watch it then.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,120
    mtm wrote: »
    Has Netflix UK cancelled Discovery? not currently subscribed (I resub when content builds up)

    It's showing on Pluto TV tomorrow (Friday) night at 9pm, which I believe is free to watch (with ads though I presume) and you watch it through through its app on your Smart TV/Amazon stick etc. It is a live broadcast with no catch up though, so you have to watch it then.

    Really that's surprising it will probably be in SD format though will have a look, I have had Pluto TV several times over the years and usually end up deleting the App.

    Thanks for the tip.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I gave up on DS9 about midway through its second season.It just wasn’t Star Trek to me.

    This is like saying you gave up midway through the second season of TNG. You literally gave up just before it started getting really good.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,120
    Around the time the defiant turned up DS9 went into high gear, when it originally aired i used to run home to watch very episode DS9 was unmissable TV for me.

    S1 and S2 were ok on later revisit, a quite few episodes served well as a slow build for what was to follow.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I thought each season improved on the last. It’s only the final season that has a relative dip, but only because S6 was much stronger.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    As a newbie to DS9 who has limited time for watching, from which series/episode onwards is DS9 unmissable?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited November 2021 Posts: 25,120
    The Search Part 1 and 2 is good and expands the show a lot.

    Then the following season and a particular characters arrival in Way of the Warrior really elevates the show further, there are so many good episodes in S3 and S4 though.

    I have not re watched the show in years as I have been holding out for a HD restoration to do a full revisit, I have been waiting a long time...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    zebrafish wrote: »
    As a newbie to DS9 who has limited time for watching, from which series/episode onwards is DS9 unmissable?

    I’d say S4 is a good middle point to jump in. That’s when the conflicts start really brewing, Worf joins the cast (and is better written in DS9 than TNG imo). That’s how I got into DS9 when it was on TV reruns. After the finale I was into the show enough that I wanted to catch up on the earlier seasons just to see more of the characters.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,120
    The Die is Cast is one of my favourite episodes from S3.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 1,394
    From what I understand,S3 of DS9 was considered a disaster with many terrible episodes and its ratings were going downhill.Michael Dorn was brought aboard in S4 to save the show.

    The show just wasn’t Star Trek to me.Setting the show on a space station that goes nowhere took away from what the franchise is about,following a likeable group of characters on a starship and exploring space.DS9s cast did not appeal to me at all.Avery Brooks acting was just laughable and I couldn’t stand the emphasis on those Ferengi characters.O’Brien and Odo were the only characters I liked.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Critically speaking DS9 was just fine in the third season (I can only think of maybe two subpar episodes), but the ratings did slip that year and they needed a boost. Adding Worf did that, but thankfully he didn’t overshadow the cast like Seven of Nine ended up doing when she was added onto VOYAGER.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    From what I understand,S3 of DS9 was considered a disaster with many terrible episodes and its ratings were going downhill.Michael Dorn was brought aboard in S4 to save the show.

    The show just wasn’t Star Trek to me.Setting the show on a space station that goes nowhere took away from what the franchise is about,following a likeable group of characters on a starship and exploring space.DS9s cast did not appeal to me at all.Avery Brooks acting was just laughable and I couldn’t stand the emphasis on those Ferengi characters.O’Brien and Odo were the only characters I liked.

    Your loss.
  • Posts: 2,402
    I must be the only person who doesn't really have a huge problem with the first two seasons of DS9. Are there bad episodes (such as If Wishes Were Horses, which sits among the nadirs of the Trek franchise)? Absolutely. There are also great episodes. Duet is obviously a masterpiece, but the season finale that follows it, In the Hands of the Prophets, is nearly as great. There's an episode with Kira and a stubborn Bajoran farmer (Progress, I think?) that is amazing. Emissary is almost unquestionably the best series premiere of any Trek show. The three-parter that started season 2 is gripping. The Maquis. The Jem'Hadar. People often act like The Search is the first time DS9 was ever good and I just find that patently false. Neither of these two seasons are Trek gold-pressed latinum like S5 and S6 are, but they're also definitely far above the likes of S1 of TNG, S3 of TOS, or S1 of Voyager.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I must be the only person who doesn't really have a huge problem with the first two seasons of DS9. Are there bad episodes (such as If Wishes Were Horses, which sits among the nadirs of the Trek franchise)? Absolutely. There are also great episodes. Duet is obviously a masterpiece, but the season finale that follows it, In the Hands of the Prophets, is nearly as great. There's an episode with Kira and a stubborn Bajoran farmer (Progress, I think?) that is amazing. Emissary is almost unquestionably the best series premiere of any Trek show. The three-parter that started season 2 is gripping. The Maquis. The Jem'Hadar. People often act like The Search is the first time DS9 was ever good and I just find that patently false. Neither of these two seasons are Trek gold-pressed latinum like S5 and S6 are, but they're also definitely far above the likes of S1 of TNG, S3 of TOS, or S1 of Voyager.

    DS9 honestly has the strongest run of episodes in terms of consistency. I can think of over a dozen of REALLY bad TOS and TNG episodes, but with DS9 it’s maybe only a handful. Everything else is largely solid with a good number of franchise standouts.
  • Posts: 526
    @AstonLotus I highly recommend that you try DS9 again. It’s one of my all-time favorite shows. It’s a slow burn series until the last episode of season 3. Up until season 3, it is basically laying the groundwork for the rest of the series. I could watch it over and over again (and I do). It’s extremely serial in nature after season 3 (but it is from ep 1 as well). Season 6 is some of the best tv I’ve ever watched. Anyway, if it isn’t your cup of tea it isn’t, but I’d hate to see you miss out. They get away from the space station quite a bit too after season 3. In other words, business really picks up on season 4. The last 10 episodes of the show are like a mini-series and giant finale.
  • Posts: 526
    I must be the only person who doesn't really have a huge problem with the first two seasons of DS9. Are there bad episodes (such as If Wishes Were Horses, which sits among the nadirs of the Trek franchise)? Absolutely. There are also great episodes. Duet is obviously a masterpiece, but the season finale that follows it, In the Hands of the Prophets, is nearly as great. There's an episode with Kira and a stubborn Bajoran farmer (Progress, I think?) that is amazing. Emissary is almost unquestionably the best series premiere of any Trek show. The three-parter that started season 2 is gripping. The Maquis. The Jem'Hadar. People often act like The Search is the first time DS9 was ever good and I just find that patently false. Neither of these two seasons are Trek gold-pressed latinum like S5 and S6 are, but they're also definitely far above the likes of S1 of TNG, S3 of TOS, or S1 of Voyager.

    I love all the seasons. As @MakeshiftPython said, it’s really consistent in terms of quality. There are some episodes that aren’t so great, scattered about, but for a show that produces from 20-27 or so episodes over 7 years, it is 95% great imo.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,798
    The last 10 episodes of the show are like a mini-series and giant finale.
    DS9 was a great series. However, I was not a fan of the end of the final episode.
    It's on a need to know basis, sure you'll understand...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 8,183
    As long as you can accept DS9 as it’s own thing that happens to be set in the Trek universe. In truth, it really should have just been called DEEP SPACE NINE rather than being a subtitle. Remember, at the time it was made TNG was still on the air so they wanted it to be different enough from that instead of feel like a copy.

    That’s where VOYAGER kinda fails for me. It should have tried to be its own unique show rather than be a lesser copy of TNG.
  • Posts: 526
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The last 10 episodes of the show are like a mini-series and giant finale.
    DS9 was a great series. However, I was not a fan of the end of the final episode.
    It's on a need to know basis, sure you'll agree...

    Yes. I definitely agree. 😀 Yeah, they had to differentiate it from TNG. I guess they figured two starship exploration based shows on simultaneously wouldn’t work. Tos has always been my favorite, and I’d rate DS9 as no. 2.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    As long as you can accept DS9 as it’s own thing that happens to be set in the Trek universe. In truth, it really should have just been called DEEP SPACE NINE rather than being a subtitle. Remember, at the time it was made TNG was still on the air so they wanted it to be different enough from that instead of feel like a copy.

    That’s where VOYAGER kinda fails for me. It should have tried to be its own unique show rather than be a lesser copy of TNG.
    I liked Voyager better than DS9. But DS9 had more very good episodes than Voyager. BUT, Voyager had more stellar episodes than DS9. So, in that way, for me, the few outweigh the many.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,341
    chrisisall wrote: »
    As long as you can accept DS9 as it’s own thing that happens to be set in the Trek universe. In truth, it really should have just been called DEEP SPACE NINE rather than being a subtitle. Remember, at the time it was made TNG was still on the air so they wanted it to be different enough from that instead of feel like a copy.

    That’s where VOYAGER kinda fails for me. It should have tried to be its own unique show rather than be a lesser copy of TNG.
    So, in that way, for me, the few outweigh the many.

    Spock may not have agreed: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"
    But thanks for the lively discussion of the series and episodes. I think I will start with season 4 and check out the earlier highlights some of you mentioned.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,209
    Having just started watching the series Ozark, I just realized how perfect Esai Morales would have been for the role of Kahn in Star Trek Into Darkness. Benedict Cumberbatch is an outstanding actor but was horribly miscast; Morales would have more true to the original character and would have brought the same confidant bravado as Ricardo Montalbán.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    I think Khan should really have been an Indian or Asian actor.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Faran Tahir would have made a good modern Khan. He had a cameo in the 2009 as the captain of the Kelvin.
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