Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,369
    We already have too many scenes with MI6.
  • edited January 24 Posts: 7,507
    It's a trap all Fleming readers and Bond fans should awoid falling into: Wanting to add unused elements from the novels just to tick off boxes without adding anything of real value to the story or the character. Furthermore we need to actually consider whether an idea from Fleming is that good or indeed relevant 60-80 years after it was written. It might give a small sense of satisfaction for the 1-3% of the audience who know the Fleming novels well to see some element from the books included. The vast majority won't know and won't care though.

    Of course the novels should be an inspiration and a base for new ideas. I am fully on board with this. But there might be a reason why some ideas have already been utilized and some haven't. You should only utilize what is of real value and quality and can be used to enhance a modern day story.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I guess it depends how Bond 26 or future Bond films go story wise. Can the tried and tested Bond formula of old work in the 2020's or 2030's?
    The Craig films went away from the classic formula and gave us a slightly different take on Bond. Going forward is it not possible that EON might adapt the films and characters in a way we haven't seen before.
    Sure certain characters from Fleming's novels might not be suitable to include, but as I said it depends on what story angle EON go with.
    Is it too much to think we don't see some of Bonds homelife or seducing a woman during a night out off the job?
    Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it cannot add something new to the character if written well.
  • Posts: 4,167
    I think it’d have to move the film along in some way or tell us something about his character, but sure, Bond off duty can be done. We got a glimpse of it in SP.

    I dunno, you can show Bond alone while he looks over a file or evaluates some sort of clue that’ll progress the story. I can imagine if it’s night Bond with his tie undone/with his shoulder holster on and having a drink, or if it’s day/morning you can incorporate his breakfast routine of the novels. Personally I’d like to see something like the opening of CR (the novel) where Bond sets up little ‘traps’ throughout his hotel room or living area to see if anyone’s snuck in (it’s a very telling thing for the character to do, so serves some purpose).
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think it’d have to move the film along in some way or tell us something about his character, but sure, Bond off duty can be done. We got a glimpse of it in SP.

    I dunno, you can show Bond alone while he looks over a file or evaluates some sort of clue that’ll progress the story. I can imagine if it’s night Bond with his tie undone/with his shoulder holster on and having a drink, or if it’s day/morning you can incorporate his breakfast routine of the novels. Personally I’d like to see something like the opening of CR (the novel) where Bond sets up little ‘traps’ throughout his hotel room or living area to see if anyone’s snuck in (it’s a very telling thing for the character to do, so serves some purpose).
    I think he does something like that in the film version of DR. No, doesn't he?

  • If the rumour about Nolan wanting to set Bond 26 in the past is true, what argument is there for EON not to let him do at least a one-off Bond film before doing a reboot without Nolan and a new Bond?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    If the rumour about Nolan wanting to set Bond 26 in the past is true, what argument is there for EON not to let him do at least a one-off Bond film before doing a reboot without Nolan and a new Bond?

    There are many points to argue, the least of which is the answer to this question: when was the last time a period action film made huge box office?

    But one of the most important arguments of all is, outside of a handful of fans, scattered throughout the world, no one is asking for period Bond films.

    But I'd have to say the very most important argument is that the gatekeepers have given a resounding "no" to this concept. They don't have the appetite to do it. No one is asking for it outside of some diehards on here and one or two columnists on screenrant.

    It would be a terrible investment for Amazon.

    James Bond is today, not yesterday.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    If the rumour about Nolan wanting to set Bond 26 in the past is true, what argument is there for EON not to let him do at least a one-off Bond film before doing a reboot without Nolan and a new Bond?

    If you watch the making of TLD documentary, there's a part where Michael G Wilson says there was an idea of looking at Bond's roots as a younger man in his 20's or 30's.
    But Cubby said that they shouldn't go backwards.
    Meaning, a period Bond film is likely to be a no go for EON as @peter said.
    It would be incredibly expensive. Just look at how poorly The Man From Uncle was received.
  • mtm wrote: »
    I would only want this if it happens to intersect with the plot of the film. I don’t want to stop the adventure film to see how Bond spends his evenings off duty or how he gets his flat cleaned.
    Not only I'm not sure it is mandatory, but I also hope it doesn't intersect with the plot.

    Dr No demonstrates it is feasible, without being to the detriment of the main plot. It creates a mood, an atmosphere, it shows to the audience who this new Bond is and what his life is, before he is sent on a mission. Not only does it allow to establish this new iteration of Bond, by characterising him and his life, it also distingues this new era from the previous ones that didn't show us who Bond is, outside of his mission.

    Craig's era showed us who Bond is through his missions, by intersecting his professional life and his personal life. Here, with Bond 27, we could have a clear separation between Bond's personal and professional lives, while showing us who this man is. It doesn't need to be long, but this could be a great way to establish a compelling new iteration.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    The Craig era still had occasional bloat in it, with some sequences of really unnecessary exposition that took up unnecessary amounts of time. If those scenes manage to survive all the way through production, I'm sure they could find time to show Bond at his home, getting ready or eating, for a couple minutes in the first act. Yes, as long as it's natural and flows well with the story they're telling. I wouldn't mind seeing it. I know I was excited to see him at home in SP initially but it ended up being very drab and underwhelming.

    That's one of the better ways to "personalize" Bond for the next era, in my opinion. I don't need any more backstory about his parents and long-lost connections coming back to haunt him. Give me more of Bond as he is today, what makes him tick, what his hobbies and interests are, etc.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Craig era still had occasional bloat in it, with some sequences of really unnecessary exposition that took up unnecessary amounts of time. If those scenes manage to survive all the way through production, I'm sure they could find time to show Bond at his home, getting ready or eating, for a couple minutes in the first act. Yes, as long as it's natural and flows well with the story they're telling. I wouldn't mind seeing it. I know I was excited to see him at home in SP initially but it ended up being very drab and underwhelming.

    That's one of the better ways to "personalize" Bond for the next era, in my opinion. I don't need any more backstory about his parents and long-lost connections coming back to haunt him. Give me more of Bond as he is today, what makes him tick, what his hobbies and interests are, etc.

    Maybe a round of golf with Bill Tanner, discussing a case, or something to do with the plot as they play.
    All the Bond films have a few scenes of exposition, doing something different, whilst maintaining a little of Fleming along the way could work.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Craig era still had occasional bloat in it, with some sequences of really unnecessary exposition that took up unnecessary amounts of time. If those scenes manage to survive all the way through production, I'm sure they could find time to show Bond at his home, getting ready or eating, for a couple minutes in the first act. Yes, as long as it's natural and flows well with the story they're telling. I wouldn't mind seeing it. I know I was excited to see him at home in SP initially but it ended up being very drab and underwhelming.

    That's one of the better ways to "personalize" Bond for the next era, in my opinion. I don't need any more backstory about his parents and long-lost connections coming back to haunt him. Give me more of Bond as he is today, what makes him tick, what his hobbies and interests are, etc.

    So many opportunities for product placement!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Benny wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Craig era still had occasional bloat in it, with some sequences of really unnecessary exposition that took up unnecessary amounts of time. If those scenes manage to survive all the way through production, I'm sure they could find time to show Bond at his home, getting ready or eating, for a couple minutes in the first act. Yes, as long as it's natural and flows well with the story they're telling. I wouldn't mind seeing it. I know I was excited to see him at home in SP initially but it ended up being very drab and underwhelming.

    That's one of the better ways to "personalize" Bond for the next era, in my opinion. I don't need any more backstory about his parents and long-lost connections coming back to haunt him. Give me more of Bond as he is today, what makes him tick, what his hobbies and interests are, etc.

    Maybe a round of golf with Bill Tanner, discussing a case, or something to do with the plot as they play.
    All the Bond films have a few scenes of exposition, doing something different, whilst maintaining a little of Fleming along the way could work.

    I like this idea. There are exposition-dumps in every film. The best mask it well.

    This could be a nice time for Bond to be invited to Blades for dinner and cards with M. Feeling out of his element here, Bond has a feeling there's a catch to all of this... And there is:

    M brought his young agent to his private club to do some spying on one of the members (using MR as an influence). In this sequence we will learn about Bond (his obvious discomfort in this stuffy environment), something about M (he's a sly old spymaster), and, via action (spying on a target), we will get the exposition of the assignment...
  • Posts: 1,996
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.

    Yes I was thinking along similar lines. Maybe whilst discussing something with Bond, she teaches him something that he was unaware of. Something that could be very beneficial to Bonds assignment.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    peter wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Craig era still had occasional bloat in it, with some sequences of really unnecessary exposition that took up unnecessary amounts of time. If those scenes manage to survive all the way through production, I'm sure they could find time to show Bond at his home, getting ready or eating, for a couple minutes in the first act. Yes, as long as it's natural and flows well with the story they're telling. I wouldn't mind seeing it. I know I was excited to see him at home in SP initially but it ended up being very drab and underwhelming.

    That's one of the better ways to "personalize" Bond for the next era, in my opinion. I don't need any more backstory about his parents and long-lost connections coming back to haunt him. Give me more of Bond as he is today, what makes him tick, what his hobbies and interests are, etc.

    Maybe a round of golf with Bill Tanner, discussing a case, or something to do with the plot as they play.
    All the Bond films have a few scenes of exposition, doing something different, whilst maintaining a little of Fleming along the way could work.

    I like this idea. There are exposition-dumps in every film. The best mask it well.

    This could be a nice time for Bond to be invited to Blades for dinner and cards with M. Feeling out of his element here, Bond has a feeling there's a catch to all of this... And there is:

    M brought his young agent to his private club to do some spying on one of the members (using MR as an influence). In this sequence we will learn about Bond (his obvious discomfort in this stuffy environment), something about M (he's a sly old spymaster), and, via action (spying on a target), we will get the exposition of the assignment...

    Brilliance. This would give me the sort of thing I'm after while also further adapting some really fantastic, untapped Fleming material. Sign me up!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited January 24 Posts: 9,509
    I just stumbled across The Ultimate James Bond Medley - Every song from the 25 movies including No Time To Die.

    If I had the ear of EoN, I’d tell them to go into a dark room, sit in comfy chairs, close their eyes, and just listen to this… Listen to their history, the richness of the music, the “Bond sound” that is so unique, the stories in the lyrics, the vibrancy and how most of these tunes are timeless…

    This would be my creative jumping off point (then I’d go to Fleming and look for some interesting threads).

    But my god, I was inspired listening to this video. It reminded me that there are, more or less, 25 films that have given me so much joy and great escapism…. Honestly, gave me shivers.

    What a great series, with more greatness to come.

    Edit: @Creasy47 … yes, Fleming painted wonderful pictures with his words, and if they can massage it into the scripts to come, it not only gives the book-fans some love, but Fleming’s spirit tends to separate the Bond films from the generic action thrillers playing today.

    I think there must be loads of these sequences that are unused that could be massaged into a modern adventure— so long as the scenes move the story forwards…
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Exactly. I'm not after fan service for the sake of it, and I don't want them "wasting" his unused material by injecting it unnecessarily or in a way that hampers the flow and pacing, but if they can naturally work moments like that in in the future, I'd love it.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    "Fan Service" is an interesting, and at time frustrating term. I have a feeling that for some, virtually anything that is recognizable as quintessential Bond will be labeled fan service. While the next era is said to be a re-invention, it is still Bond and will have many recognizable elements.
  • Posts: 4,167
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think it’d have to move the film along in some way or tell us something about his character, but sure, Bond off duty can be done. We got a glimpse of it in SP.

    I dunno, you can show Bond alone while he looks over a file or evaluates some sort of clue that’ll progress the story. I can imagine if it’s night Bond with his tie undone/with his shoulder holster on and having a drink, or if it’s day/morning you can incorporate his breakfast routine of the novels. Personally I’d like to see something like the opening of CR (the novel) where Bond sets up little ‘traps’ throughout his hotel room or living area to see if anyone’s snuck in (it’s a very telling thing for the character to do, so serves some purpose).
    I think he does something like that in the film version of DR. No, doesn't he?

    He does. But it’s been a while since then and they can shake it up a bit (a bit like how Roger used a gadget to sweep for bugs in his room in LALD).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 24 Posts: 16,425
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.

    I don’t hate that. But I’d need it to have happened from whatever that discovery is rather than a need to shoehorn a character in from Fleming for the sake of it.
    I worry that the thinking at play here is to work backwards from ‘May was in the books so we should put her in’ rather than to consider any actual story for a movie. I mean, I could say there should be a really important plot in the next film where Bond has to eat eggs because he did that a lot in the books… but I don’t want to watch that. Imagine Moonraker where he dives out a plane without a parachute, watches a lovely Shirley Bassey song, has some eggs, says hello to May, combs his hair, then goes to MI 6 to be briefed on the missing jumbo jet. Is that really a better film?
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited January 25 Posts: 1,649
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.

    I don’t hate that. But I’d need it to have happened from whatever that discovery is rather than a need to shoehorn a character in from Fleming for the sake of it.
    I worry that the thinking at play here is to work backwards from ‘May was in the books so we should put her in’ rather than to consider any actual story for a movie. I mean, I could say there should be a really important plot in the next film where Bond has to eat eggs because he did that a lot in the books… but I don’t want to watch that. Imagine Moonraker where he dives out a plane without a parachute, watches a lovely Shirley Bassey song, has some eggs, says hello to May, combs his hair, then goes to MI 6 to be briefed on the missing jumbo jet. Is that really a better film?

    In a cute moment when hanging a plant, Bond shows May how to tie a certain naval knot. Later, when she or someone is tied up, she uses this knowledge to get them free or something.

    Or, May teaches Bond some chemical mixture for cleaning that he discovers can be used for something else later.

    May could be an immigrant or family of immigrants who helps Bond learn her language that's then useful on a future mission, or one of the slang terms from the language is used as a codeword and by chance Bond decodes it.

    Bond could leave a cypher out, and May solves it. "Always loved a puzzle, this one took all morning!"
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 25 Posts: 16,425
    These are all working backwards from having May in then? You’re actually building a whole film where a chemical mixture for something or other is important around the cameo appearance of this bit part. I just don’t think that’s the best way to write a movie.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,812
    May as an immigrant. Meaning a Scot.

    And a mixologist. Would still make sense.


  • Posts: 1,996
    Will we get a younger version of what came before, or will the next Bond be a true reinvention?
  • Posts: 4,167
    I’d say if May is going to make an appearance then the best way of incorporating her is basically adapting her scene from FRWL - that’s to say she tells Bond over breakfast that someone was looking for him and it reinforces or sets up the idea that Bond is being targeted for some reason. It could work if the film was going for a cat and mouse type dynamic to it.

    Apart from that I don’t think there’s much reason to have her at all. Not sure anyone’s crying out for a Bond film where his housekeeper is kidnapped or she acts as a sort of Alfred in Batman type figure.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    LucknFate wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.

    I don’t hate that. But I’d need it to have happened from whatever that discovery is rather than a need to shoehorn a character in from Fleming for the sake of it.
    I worry that the thinking at play here is to work backwards from ‘May was in the books so we should put her in’ rather than to consider any actual story for a movie. I mean, I could say there should be a really important plot in the next film where Bond has to eat eggs because he did that a lot in the books… but I don’t want to watch that. Imagine Moonraker where he dives out a plane without a parachute, watches a lovely Shirley Bassey song, has some eggs, says hello to May, combs his hair, then goes to MI 6 to be briefed on the missing jumbo jet. Is that really a better film?

    In a cute moment when hanging a plant, Bond shows May how to tie a certain naval knot. Later, when she or someone is tied up, she uses this knowledge to get them free or something.

    Or, May teaches Bond some chemical mixture for cleaning that he discovers can be used for something else later.

    May could be an immigrant or family of immigrants who helps Bond learn her language that's then useful on a future mission, or one of the slang terms from the language is used as a codeword and by chance Bond decodes it.

    Bond could leave a cypher out, and May solves it. "Always loved a puzzle, this one took all morning!"

    May could teach young Bond (Tom Holland) chemin de fer.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    One could argue that why is Moneypenny a supporting character in the films, with an even smaller role in Fleming's novels included.
    Or even the beloved Q, who only gets mentioned as being part of Q branch in the novels.
    I don't think anyone is suggesting that characters like May, Sir James Molony, Ronnie Vallance etc be included in every film going forward. That would make the films very bloated and tough to write for. However, occasionally incorporating any of them into the film series would be a nice touch for some of us. Does it matter that 99% of the audience won't know who they are. Not really.
    If it takes up a minute or two of a two hour movie, will it ruin it. Probably not.
    Adding characters from Fleming is a nice way to respect the author I feel. A good scriptwriter could include any of these characters, without it feeling forced.
  • Posts: 7,507
    LucknFate wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    The best use of May would be if she stumbled onto something seemingly inconsequential which she shares with Bond that upon further inquiry leads onto something quite diabolical.

    I don’t hate that. But I’d need it to have happened from whatever that discovery is rather than a need to shoehorn a character in from Fleming for the sake of it.
    I worry that the thinking at play here is to work backwards from ‘May was in the books so we should put her in’ rather than to consider any actual story for a movie. I mean, I could say there should be a really important plot in the next film where Bond has to eat eggs because he did that a lot in the books… but I don’t want to watch that. Imagine Moonraker where he dives out a plane without a parachute, watches a lovely Shirley Bassey song, has some eggs, says hello to May, combs his hair, then goes to MI 6 to be briefed on the missing jumbo jet. Is that really a better film?

    In a cute moment when hanging a plant, Bond shows May how to tie a certain naval knot. Later, when she or someone is tied up, she uses this knowledge to get them free or something.

    Or, May teaches Bond some chemical mixture for cleaning that he discovers can be used for something else later.

    May could be an immigrant or family of immigrants who helps Bond learn her language that's then useful on a future mission, or one of the slang terms from the language is used as a codeword and by chance Bond decodes it.

    Bond could leave a cypher out, and May solves it. "Always loved a puzzle, this one took all morning!"

    This is James Bond, not MacGyver ;)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited January 25 Posts: 1,649
    Sorry for trying. Will save my ideas for myself I guess. Do you all just want May to be a pretty person in the corner? I'm confused.
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