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Nobody's right about everything I guess :P
As I said, your tastes are pretty consistent. Connery and Craig are not that far.
It’s my go to Bond film when watching one with other people (I’ve heard it described as a perfect pizza and beer Bond film on these forums). It’s great, obviously wasn’t quite as well regarded when it was released so it’s great to see it more fondly viewed. Like I said it’s even broken my top ten from doing the film rankings, and I’d say it’s very much deserved.
😂 @mtm ... As I was saying, tastes are fluid and for some people not so rigid. I can tell you, more than a few of your posts about Moore have given me pause in the past.
Some of these posts made me re-evaluate.
And certainly there's far more appreciation for the man and his films, to the point that a few of his outings clutter up my rankings just outside of my top ten (and sometimes have popped in and out of the top rankings, knocking out TLD, or QoS, if only briefly).
So you've played an influence in my Moore re-evaluation, and I can say if I was to judge just the performances of each actor (and not the films as a whole), Moore would enter the top ten, for sure (LALD and OP being two performances that would be in there).
Definitely! And that’s why, although I think there could be an element of truth about “generational differences”, I just don’t buy that concept as a whole.
Tastes are fluid. And if one is open to less binary thinking, opinions can, and will, change.
I think the original point I was getting at is, as a child of the Moore era, he should, or his films should, conceivably, be scattered in my top ten, and he, according to my generation, should be the figure, or one of two figures, to shape and define my taste of who and what Bond is.
But Moore’s films aren’t embedded in my top ten, and instead, his era, one of Dalton’s films, all of Brosnan’s, are skipped over, but some “short”, blond, mainly indie actor, impressed himself, and his films, into my all time favourite 007 films, including his last (residing as my (shock and blasphemy!) number one).
Uhm… okay? I think you’re pretty much saying the same thing I’m saying, or……….
He’s gone “ Confucius” on us!
Or generational differences are real.
🤯 mind totally blown man 🤯…. Deke you are so trippy dude. You say one thing, then another. You’re sooooo fascinating!
@007ClassicBondFan , you give someone a chance, and…. Well, I’m more the idiot. I bang my head against a wall, or in this case, against a genius like Deke, and I’m hoping for something different instead of troll-like comments.
I’ve only myself to blame, seriously, 😂!!!
When I saw him call GE basically like an old “Roger Moore” film I had to stop myself from falling for the bait lmao.
Nice post @007ClassicBondFan … anecdotally my parents were “original” fans, or perhaps I should put “fan”(s) in quotation marks as well, since my mum tagged along with my dad at the start…. Nevertheless, they were there from the beginning. And they were born in England and living there during the birth of the James Bond phenomenon (they didn’t move to Toronto until the 70s).
My dad was a die hard Connery fan his entire life. So rigid he hated OHMSS because Connery wasn’t in it.
My mum didn’t like Connery, but really enjoyed Moore (whom my dad dismissed as The Saint).
Then, my wife’s dad, an original fan, a Canadian from a small town, always loved James Bond and enjoyed every single actor, but, he thought NTTD was the best one. So…. 🤷♂️….
There’s of course an argument for “generational differences “, but; for every one of those there are ppl like my mum, and then there are ppl like my father-in-law: not so easy to peg or define with a broad brush.
Nuance…
Wonderful story @peter! My father came of age during the Moore years (he was never a huge Bond fan but he was a HUGE action movie fan so he’d never turn away a Bond film unless he found something else) and he always cites “Octopussy” (of all films) as the one he remembers most; in fact I’m fairly certain the only reason I got to see “Casino Royale” in theaters was because my father thought it was going to be something similar to “Octopussy” or the Brosnan flicks thus appropriate for a 9 year old to see. I’m pretty sure he realized his mistake by the time we got to the Torture scene hahaha.
It’s nuanced like you said and that’s why I love Bond. There are so many different films in the series, each with their own style/vision for the character yet they never stray too far away from the core concepts of the character; that makes for tons of variety at our disposal as an audience (something that I personally feel many big franchises like Star Wars and the MCU lack.) That variety makes discussing the series fun imo.
Lovely thoughts, @007ClassicBondFan !
Forget it, @peter, it's Deketown. ;)
So where is the problem?
One day I’ll learn!! 😂
But with the following films I got increasingly bored with the more serious approach and NTTD was a huge disappointment in the end, SP would have been the better final film. Also, I wasn't a fan of Craig's portrayal as James Bond (to be honest, I like him much more in the role of Benoit Blanc).
From my point of view, things can almost only go uphill now, but I have my doubts.
Deketown is a nice place to live. You can say generational differences are real!
No one said they weren’t, Deke.
I stated it’s not the full story and then gave examples, where you just make sweeping generalizations and your five word posts that have no value to any conversation.
Some people call that gaslighting. Others call it trolling. I just say it’s got tiresome, 🤷♂️…
Connery remains the best Bond period. Call it generational whatever, he is simply the best hands down. His Bond has a look, style, charm, and ease on screen that none of his successors do. For me the iconic still of his leaning against the Aston in Goldfinger is the essence of Bond that has never been captured by another actor and certainly not rivaled.
His first four films are in my top six. OHMSS comes closest in capturing the feel of a Connery Bond film. Moore's best was his first, as was Dalton's, Brosnan's, and Craig's.
The Brosnan era is a blackhole. I have to work hard to recall anything about his films. As with Moore, I never bought him as Bond. Both actors are accomplished, but neither convinced me they were Bond. They were merely playing the role. PB has been a much better actor since.
Craig succeeds as an unpolished Connery. He never exudes the casual charm of Connery. CR is in my top six, but his subsequent films don't come close to his first outing. Behind Connery in my ranking are Craig, Dalton, Lazenby. As much as I don't care for Moore's portrayal, I put him ahead of Brosnan.
As for the generational divide, I suspect a lot of that has to do with differences in technology and attitudes that don't reflect current thinking. The offenses many find in those early films I don't share. It may be convenient for some to offer that as proof of some sort of generational divide, but it most assuredly is not.
So yes, I think everything is quite subjective and the generational thing matters.
Right. It comes down to taste.
For most of my life I thought Connery was the best, and I’m thinking I must be a couple of decades younger than you.
But now I think Craig is the best, IMO— and he’s certainly not the first Bond I was exposed to, nor the first era I’ve lived through.
It’s about taste and connecting to the actor and his portrayal.
That’s the issue with thinking criticisms of the early films come down to a generational divide. I think posters were making valid point on DN and TB, although I personally love both films.
Two things can be true at the same time: I can admire these films, but also agree that there are pacing issues and dated approaches to visual storytelling, and yes, problems with the actual scripts (as we could do on all 25 films)…
I can be less enthused about Brosnan and his films, but that doesn’t and shouldn’t invalidate the fans of his era, either. I’m not wrong in my opinion, and neither are they.They love those films, and as a fan of the series I’m happy for them.
There seems to be a slight war, though, between some posters of a certain vintage, firing salvos at perceived younger fans. That’s not right.
Hi Peter, That was me. My comment was actually based on some people preferring AVTAK and DAF over DN. From a filmmaker's perspective it seemed to me that a "generational divide" could explain that. Of course I could be wrong. How would you rate DN against AVTAK in their story arcs, pacing and production values?
@delfloria ,for me, DN is a tight, well-made, small budget film that is far better than DAF and AVTAK.
But I’m not sure if some liking DAF and AVTAK over DN is a generational thing, though— IMO.
I dunno, maybe some liked the sleazy, lounge lizardy’ness of DAF, or the GF callbacks in AVTAK? I think it's personal tastes rather than generational, if I was to guess.
And some of the criticisms attached to DN, like it feels like a 50s film, I get. I think that too. Norman’s melodramatic score really lends itself more to a film from the previous decade. But I also love DN for this tone as well.
If any of that makes sense?…..
It all makes sense to me. I'll add that the original novels are of their time as well. '50s detective novels with a splash of innovative outlandishness. Like the DN film.