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Would you rather Bond return to his cultural knowledge OR Bond return to the one-liner?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited July 9 Posts: 9,509
    Two flawed films with some good ideas threaded through both.

    This comes down to which Bond would I rather watch.

    The broken record that I am, I'd much rather watch Craig (hobbled on one leg, on pain killers and fighting through a long shoot, that at times sounded miserable). Personal preference.

    Plus Monica.

    Plus the assassination scene at the villa.

    Plus Craig's suits.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 9 Posts: 18,280
    I've just watched TWINE for the first time in years. It was OK, but not as good as I remember. It seems to me that the Brosnan Bond films peaked with GoldenEye. As such, I'd much rather watch Spectre which is a much better and more interesting film to watch, despite its flaws in places. Plus Spectre used parts from Fleming and took the torture scene from Colonel Sun, my favourite Bond continuation novel.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    That’s a rough choice, given they’re right next to each other near the bottom of my ranking. Lately I’d say SP though, even though it would have been TWINE a couple years ago. I find them equally flawed more or less, but TWINE bores me more as of late so I’ll give SP the edge, subject to change though. Good prompt here as far as my taste is concerned.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,430
    SP, despite the backlash it gets here, I enjoy it greatly, and even prefer it to SF, which doesn't do a whole lot for me as a Bond movie!
    TWINE, well it does have the stunning Sophie Marceau, but it's also got cringeville in Brossa, talking about his "shouuuuulder", and is just plain dull!
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 9 Posts: 3,789
    There are many scenes that I used to rewatch in SP than in TWINE, although in terms of concept, I liked TWINE more with the female antagonist and love triangle thing between Bond and Renard, it wasn't just executed well, the one in SP isn't actually a good idea, even in concept (the step brothers thing and doesn't helped that a Bond rip off parody film made it earlier (Austin Powers), and SP had committed worse for that), so whatever execution the film could've made, it still wouldn't work because you have the bad cliché of the villain and the main character being step brothers, with the villain doing all of his plans out of jealousy (that made the film for me a whole lot more worse, like another insult to the injury), it's a bad concept from the get go.

    Everything in SP trumps out TWINE (a henchman in Mr. Hinx, Bond himself, the action scenes, the Bond Girl, although I've acknowledge Denise Richards doing her job as an actress and what's demanded for her to do (the character itself was terrible to be fair and in no way it could've been fixed other than to rewrite the whole thing by starting from scratch), better acting, score, and everything), but where it lies for me are the concepts of the two films, and this where TWINE just made the advantage, bad execution of a good idea, compared to a film with a destructive combination of bad idea and bad execution, and that just frustrates me more about SP, it has all the great technical aspects but really suffered from what made the film itself (the purpose behind the film), TWINE had the bad technical aspects but there's a hidden gem in there that was not polished.

    And for that single matter, I would take TWINE, just because it doesn't frustrates me like SP does.

    SP is a better made film, but TWINE's reasons for existence are just better (I mean, on paper).

    If there's a concept I'd liked to see done better or get a remake treatment in a later film, it would be TWINE, but the concept of SP isn't something I'd liked to see again, for me, it's still an anomaly to the franchise.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    For my money, SP has higher highs and lower lows, but in this case I’ll take it over TWINE’s more consistent but still lacking quality. I think the last third of SP is just about the weakest Bond film action we’ve had besides DAD, but until they meet Blofeld it’s a mostly enjoyable ride with just a few bumps here and there. Both these films just could have and should have been so much better, though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 9 Posts: 16,413
    Spectre, yeah. Flawed certainly, but everything is just more stylish, it's aesthetically more pleasing an experience. TWINE is quite flat comparatively, it looks flat, the drama and action are flatter, the music is thinner, it comes close to being a bit boring.. and I'm afraid if it's a choice between Craig and Brosnan I have to go Craig too. Spectre is the better-made film, even if it does have problems. Something like the Mexico PTS or widow bits are pure Bond style, and I'm not sure TWINE has anything to match that.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Two very disappointing films. I find TWINE to have better action, a superior musical score and more interesting ideas (although they're ideas that are not followed through on), but SP has a number of individual moments that are so well executed (technically, atmospherically) that it has a slight edge.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    It's a bit of a choice between cancer and polio...no, that's too harsh. But between a case of flu and Covid or so. I was really disappointed by SP since I liked, and like, SF so much, and the whole foster brother story... However, TWINE has been bottom basement for me for the last 25 years, beaten for the last place only by DAD, so I'd rather watch SP.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    As others have said, these are two very flawed movies.

    However, given a choice, I would probably choose TWINE for Sophie Marceau. I had sky-high expectations for SP only to see them shot down in flames.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,270
    Spectre is the bottom of the gunbarrel for me; so TWINE.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    It's funny, I struggle to think of a single element of TWINE I would prefer to SP. I guess it has Michael Kitchen as Tanner: I think he's great, although I wouldn't say Kinnear is at all bad.
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 143
    Spectre is definitely at the bottom of my list - it’s the only Bond that I would not watch if it was on linear TV. It’s a hot mess of a movie, extremely tedious in places, making poor attempts at going places Craig’s Bond never should have gone, zero chemistry between Bond and Madeleine, awful performance by Waltz, tedious action sequences with zero tension - outside of the funeral and the cabin scene with Mr White, I could not imagine myself ever watching a second of it ever again. Craig’s styling is probably the only aspect of SP that I have any regard for.
    TWINE, for me, was the beginning of the end of Brosnan’s Bond - it had some great ideas but what ended up on screen was well below average, by Bond standards. Definitely in my bottom 5 Bonds but nowhere near as bad as SP, so TWINE for me!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    mtm wrote: »
    It's funny, I struggle to think of a single element of TWINE I would prefer to SP. I guess it has Michael Kitchen as Tanner: I think he's great, although I wouldn't say Kinnear is at all bad.

    Same here, having only just watched TWINE again in full for the first time in a long time. It was also good to see Valentin Zukovsky back as he's one of the better characters from the Brosnan era. I agree totally regarding Michael Kitchen. He's the only actor that's really played Tanner the way I think he should be played.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I enjoy both, but recent rewatches give the edge to SP. Can't say no to my favourite film character in my very favourite city on the planet ;)
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    edited July 9 Posts: 2,270
    I find a lot more missed opportunities in Spectre than I do in TWINE. I’ve always been a bit harsh on Spectre because I legitimately have a tough time with the film each and every time I watch it (which is suffice to say, not a lot.) It’s the movie that breaks the Daniel Craig era for me, even more than Quantum of Solace, and there’s very few redeeming elements I can find. Even without going into “Brofeld” and the attempt to connect all of Craig’s films together; the movie just lacks the energy the first three Craig films had, and I have to admit that there are moments where Craig himself comes across as a bit bored imo. I don’t buy the relationship between Bond and Madeline, I find Mr. Hinx to be a bit wasted, and what could’ve been the best portrayal of Blofeld turned out to be possibly one of the worst. Plus the Sam Smith song is one of the worst Bond songs imo.

    In comparison, TWINE is also a bit disappointing coming after both Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies; but I think Pierce is wonderful in the film. I think Sophie Marceau gives an excellent performance, I think Robert Carlyle (though a bit wasted) is extremely memorable. I always love Robbie Coltrane and I’d pick Denise Richards over Lea Seydoux in SP any day of the week. Extra points for that theme song by Garbage too!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    Twine, thanks to Denise and Robbie.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited July 9 Posts: 693
    TWINE by a long shot.
    Better characters, story, Bond performance, and music. Slightly better action sequences. No Brofeld.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,993
    It's got to be SP because I hardly remember a thing about the other film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 9 Posts: 17,800
    This is tough because I really enjoy both films, but if pressed, I'd have to go with SP if only for the ending, which I feel is more satisfying than TWINE's.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Spectre. Even though I had a great recent re-watch of TWINE
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    Spectre. Even though I had a great recent re-watch of TWINE

    I wanna see my two favourites from each actor rated against each other, TND & QOS. Hint: Brosnan wins... ;)
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    TWINE is my least favourite Bond film, so an easy win for SP.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    mtm wrote: »
    It's funny, I struggle to think of a single element of TWINE I would prefer to SP. I guess it has Michael Kitchen as Tanner: I think he's great, although I wouldn't say Kinnear is at all bad.
    Better gadgets in TWINE though, right? No CGI wristwatch lighting.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    SP, no doubt about it. I'll give TWINE its PTS, and parts (only parts!) of its score. And that's that. SP is a film I like, more so even than SF. It's not without its flaws, but neither is TWINE. And if it must come down to the foster brother thing and "he knew exactly where to huuuuurt me," I know which of these two I find more bearable. No, this is not a comment on Denise; I like her in TWINE. She's one of the few elements that light up the Christmas tree (yeah, I did that on purpose.) I simply find much that clicks with me in SP. There's an aura of introverted melancholy (if that makes sense) in SP that aptly describes how I sometimes feel as an introvert trying to survive in a world of extroverts. So yes, SP all the way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SP, no doubt about it. I'll give TWINE its PTS, and parts (only parts!) of its score. And that's that. SP is a film I like, more so even than SF. It's not without its flaws, but neither is TWINE. And if it must come down to the foster brother thing and "he knew exactly where to huuuuurt me," I know which of these two I find more bearable. No, this is not a comment on Denise; I like her in TWINE. She's one of the few elements that light up the Christmas tree (yeah, I did that on purpose.) I simply find much that clicks with me in SP. There's an aura of introverted melancholy (if that makes sense) in SP that aptly describes how I sometimes feel as an introvert trying to survive in a world of extroverts. So yes, SP all the way.

    Makes all the sense in the world, bro.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 10 Posts: 16,413
    QBranch wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's funny, I struggle to think of a single element of TWINE I would prefer to SP. I guess it has Michael Kitchen as Tanner: I think he's great, although I wouldn't say Kinnear is at all bad.
    Better gadgets in TWINE though, right? No CGI wristwatch lighting.

    Okay, yeah that's fair, I guess the gadgets are more fun in TWINE. I prefer the watch itself in Spectre (very beautiful!), but I guess its gadgets are better in TWINE, yeah. I quite like the CG watch and its countdown though: I have a version which turns red for real! :)
    Again I prefer the car in Spectre, but I suppose the gadgets it has are more interesting in TWINE; although the gag with Bond not knowing what the gadgets are I rather like. And as weak as that car chase is, the ending with Bond landing by parachute in the street is proper 007 cool.
    I watched the caviar factory set piece again recently and it was really not as good as I remember it being.
  • ColonelSunColonelSun
    Posts: 1,493
    SP. The opening is great. It is very stylishly made. Craig is on great form. TWINE is far more pedestrian in terms of the filmmaking. And Brosnan is allowed to overact.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,280
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    SP. The opening is great. It is very stylishly made. Craig is on great form. TWINE is far more pedestrian in terms of the filmmaking. And Brosnan is allowed to overact.

    I think that sums it up perfectly, @ColonelSun.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    SP. Despite Brofeld, New York New York and shooting down a helicopter with a peashooter from a fast-moving boat. Mexico, MI6, Bond's flat, Italy, Monica Bellucci, L'Americain, the wait in the desert, driving away down Whitehall into a new dawn - all great.
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