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Yes, we may be heading into a longer gap than the LTK to GE one. I cannot remember what the feeling was back then during the early 90's, whether the Bond rumour mill was in full swing, and there was never any doubt that a new Bond film was in the making, or whether there was just stoned silence like we have now.
Obviously this was before the internet, but I cannot remember what gossip was being churned up in the tabloids during those years, to make every Bond fan be reassured that the franchise was still alive and well, and a new film and a new Bond was just around the corner.
Can anyone else remember?
I do remember rumours that Timothy Dalton had been fired or had quit the role going around, only for Dalton to announce 'I'm still James Bond'.
Frankly, aside from a few people here, the idea that we won't get a new Bond film at some point is just not something I hear. It will happen eventually, it's still one of the most sure-fire franchises around.
Next week will be exactly 4.5 years from the original NTTD release date of 2/14/20. I'm thinking B26 will be in Fall 2026. If they're serious and get ducks in a row, they can start preliminary work in summer 2025.
If we're a year from now and still crickets, then the longer hiatus concern becomes more prevalent
I don't know how many times this has to be posted but this whole "five years since wrap" date is ignorant:
- "No Time to Die" locked February 2020 for an initial April 2020 date
- A once-in-a-lifetime pandemic happened that pushed its release date 1.5 years later and caused a total shutdown of the industry
- Their producing partner/financier went bankrupt, was bought out, and merged into a different entity
- Two labor strikes caused another total shutdown of the industry
This did not fall out of a coconut tree, but people seem convinced it's just a matter of pressing a button and a movie is made.
So when should they have made the movie? During the pandemic when they were still waiting to release the finished one? During the period where they had no money? During the strikes when they couldn't work?
Having a female producer driving the ship of a traditonally hyper-masculine movie series certainly explains why they've leaned into the melodrama recently.
If anything, I'd like to see a director or writer who's more decidedly masculine than what we've had recently. It's like when people complain about the Bond continuation novels and how less 'lived in' they feel. It would help if they brought on an Author who's served in the military like Fleming or Gardner.
This is an odd conclusion to draw. Many male writers and directors have done a remarkable job putting together films with strong female-centric themes and powerful performances from actresses. The notion that only women or men can "drive the ship" of a hyper-feminine or hyper-masculine movie series feels very narrow-minded to me.
Even if I were to agree with the accusation of melodrama in the recent Bond movies, aren't we to look at the male screenwriters and-all-but-one male script doctors, Daniel Craig, the exclusively male directors and the male half of the producer pair before throwing it all at Barbara Broccoli? These recent Bond films have been one big endeavour of blokes, aside from PWB and BB.
Remember also that Johanna Harwoord -- "a woman!" (James Bond) -- cowrote DN and FRWL, two Bond films I wouldn't exactly accuse of being particularly melodramatic.
Let us also not forget that BB took over from her dad in 1995. So what about GE, TND, TWINE and DAD? I'll give you TWINE in the melodramatic department, but I blame that on P&W much more than on BB.
I honestly believe that BB, who grew up amidst these Bond productions, who was instructed by Cubby himself, who met tons of male actors in her parents' house, and who has to assure, along with MGW, that these films keep making money, knows Bond far better than any single one of us does. I'm also convinced that she is not some evil queen bee on a mission to effeminate Bond or attack his masculinity. And I will not accept accusations of taking her side unconditionally, not allowing anyone to speak ill of a Bond producer; I just think fair is fair. BB, or "Babs" as she has condescendingly been called, seems to be taking a lot of crap, even for choices that have been confirmed to be someone else's. For some reason, she's regarded by some as a malicious matriarch, plotting and scheming to deprive us of our Bond film every two years, to rob us, poor men, of our testosterone, and to piss on the legacy of her father by conducting all sorts of social experiments with Bond, like keeping this man floating around for too long:
If that's a man, then a spoon is a fork.
\sarcasm
Seriously, can we stop bashing BB, or treating her as the root of why we're not getting what we want? Talk to Harry's corpse. Talk to the Money. Talk to distributors. Talk to the Unions. Talk to all the men who put the "melodrama" in these recent Bond films. And let's not include the continuation novels in this debate. BB hasn't a thing to do with those, and books and films are two entirely different things.
I personally hope they stick to personal relationships and not by killing them off. Introduce May or do more with a Mathis-type character.
Well, plenty of authors (and indeed filmmakers) who served in the military write or make dramas. The only director I can think of off the top of my head working today who served in the military is David Ayer and... well, his track record is a bit patchy unfortunately and I doubt he'd be a good fit.
Thankfully most on here (pro Eon, anti, or indifferent), are far more tempered and the discussions can get interesting.
But those few… 😥
I also don't see much of a "feminine" touch in the series since BB took over. Sure, Craig was "moody" and all that, but of course he's often quoted as being the closest to the literary character, which many cry out for. And even if they did overdo it with the poor end to the Craig era, there's no sign of Bond losing any of his qualities.
I can understand concerns. But this goes overboard: a bad series of two movies should negate what potentially is the series' best.
Just like, it doesn't mean I hate women if I point out most people who watch soap operas are women, and it wouldn't be sexist for a woman to point out that most fans of James Bond(and most people on this forum) are men. That's just our human and biological nature.
I wish others would feel more comfortable expressing their thoughts without worrying about upsetting the fairer sex.
I must be daft then. Except that
is nothing if not the bitter statement that
I won't stumble over the semantics here. Hater, doubter, critic... of women, the point is an obvious disapproval of female producers for the Bond series. If you had specifically mentioned Barbara Broccoli, it would have been that. But your post says "female producer", so that's clear te me.
I don't disagree.
Trust me, the likes of Halle Berry, Britt Ekland, and others take plenty of heat. This forum is not kind to women for the sake of being kind to women. The problem with BB, however, is that in my opinion -- an opinion shared by some but not by all -- she takes a lot of heat for things she's actually doing well, or for things she has nothing to do with at all. It's not about her as a woman, it's about people treating a producer unfairly.
Lastly, talk about melodrama. "I think it speaks more to others's insecurities and fishing for the approval of women than it does me." Were you assaulted, threatened, asked to step down lest you be banned or something like that? Have we gone political, Freudian? Have we included gender debate, "woke", Kamala? Who's fishing for the approval of women? We're having a debate, no? That's what a forum is for. I disagree with your statement that BB, because she's a female producer, cannot "drive the ship of a traditionally hyper-masculine movie series"; I have no difficulty pointing fingers at anyone, be they male or female, whom I think does a lousy job. I simply don't think that BB has in any way failed as a Bond producer.
It's pretty clearly because she's a woman, given she is only 50% of the head of the operation yet gets 100% of the blame. Why is it Barbara Broccoli's fault there is more melodrama, and not Michael G Wilson's? He has just as much say as her.
You could say it's Michael G Wilson who caused the most melodrama during the Craig era with his suggestion of making Bond and Blofeld "brothers".
I know it's always been there, but EON also relied far too heavily on legacy and homages during the Craig era rather adding to the legacy with fresh ideas.
It's widely known in the Bond community that Barbara is "steering the ship" on Bond more than her half-brother. I'm pretty sure even Michael has said as much.
How is it bitter to insinuate that females like melodramas and soap operas and such, which you already agreed with? Would it be ok for a female fanbase to be upset over a wonder woman film series being controlled by a male producer who makes her hyper-feminine?
Never did I say a woman couldn't be the producer of James Bond. You like putting words in my mouth. If you agree with my point about women liked soaps more than men, than you would think you could connect the dots of why Barbara might be more inclined to make the films more melodramatic than say, Cubby Broccoli. I don't think its overtly sexist to wish for more of a male influence on the films.
How is Broccoli not competent? By putting millions of butts in seats since she’s taken over where her father left off?
Since she’s taken over, how many franchises and series have sputtered along on life support, or simply died? But this great grandaddy of a series is as successful as ever??
As someone who works in the industry, I’d say BB is one of the most competent producers out there.
You may not like her tastes or where she’s taken Bond, and I’m not judging any of that.. But as a producer of these films and as a businessperson, she’s pretty damn exceptional. I don’t know how that can even be up
for debate.
Which franchises have died or on life support since she's taken over exactly?
I already outlined how she has difficulty putting a script together on time in a completed state and the last two bonds in particular, have been wildly over-budget and have had declining box office returns if you really want to get into the weeds.
Um, it was MGW who suggested that Bond and Blofeld should be brothers. So that "series crippling concept" isn't her idea.
There’s nothing “in the weeds” about it. The last film was delayed due to one writer director team leaving the project (happens all the time), and a film that was released during Covid , so almost $800 million was a success, mate.
As for which series are dead or dying since ‘95? Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Rambo, MCU is a mess, Star Wars hasn’t produced a film in how long, FF is limping to its last film, Indiana Jones…
Bond films have become ridiculously expensive. But they're not alone in that. Many of these high-profile actioners seem to be costing inordinately large sums of money. I don't know what's going on with these finances these days, but EON isn't the only big spender. I'm sure they can cut some of those budgets, though I can't say what would be lost. In any case, creativity and ingenuity are things I most welcome. But let's not forget that even we, clamoring for cheaper Bond films, expect not good stuff, not great stuff, not even awesome stuff; we expect the highest superlatives in terms of visual splendour, set design, action and explosions. They so much as let their guard down, we will rant about if for years. And we're fickle; we want what we didn't get, and when we get it, we complain. It must be very challenging putting a Bond film together these days.
Allow me to expand on that, @peter:
Terminator, DCEU (alas), Friday 13th, Nightmare On Elm Street, Child's Play, ... and I'm not sure Transformers has very far to go anymore.
Not for the crème de la crème of screenwriters such as Chris Nolan. I don't think he would have any trouble putting together an excellent Bond script in fewer than 6 months.
I'd say they had a lot of fresh ideas mixed with homage to be fair to them (I don't think you can accuse NTTD of not having 'fresh ideas', and this is coming from someone with criticisms of that film).
It's worth saying that Bond will always rely on 'the formula' and tropes of the series to some extent, and that can come through as homage. It kinda comes with the territory. Even if it's just the vodka martinis, the Aston Martins etc. they're part of what makes Bond distinctive. And again, this is coming from someone who wasn't a big fan of how they conveyed that homage during the Craig era.
For all my criticisms of EON, I do think the producers understand what makes a Bond film a Bond film.
I'd say given some of the difficulties EON have faced, Broccoli has actually done extraordinarily well as a producer.
TND is a good example - they were essentially rushed into production by MGM, working with an unfinished script etc. I know that film had its share of criticism when it first came out, but it's something of a fan favourite today (I know many people who aren't big Bond fans who rate it highly as well due to a) it being quite fun, and b) it having a relevant topic to do with the media). I'm a big fan of it myself!
QOS of course had the writer's strike. The editing and to a lesser the extent the direction of that film are messy, but the script's actually pretty good. I'm actually surprised they managed to craft it under the circumstances.
NTTD of course had Boyle. I'd say he dropped the ball on that one (he's a good director, but not wanting to get other writers involved when your script is in development, close to filming, and clearly needing work is wild, and not just for a Bond film). The fact that they turned it around with an alternative script/director is actually impressive.
SP of course had its behind the scenes problems with Sony. Not the best Bond film, but a successful one, and one that has its moments.
By contrast, look at someone like Kathleen Kennedy and how badly done the last Star Wars trilogy was (it obviously had its behind the scenes problems, but my God the last instalment was weird, and it was obviously trying to pick up the pieces for the creative mistakes made during the last one/having to work with a late change of director/script. I'll criticise some of the Craig films, but it genuinely makes me glad to be a Bond fan rather than a Star Wars one. I get the sense audiences were a lot happier with the last three Craig Bond films too).
Again, I'm happy to critique the creative decisions made on these movies, but BB (and MGW) do deserve their credit as producers for handling these situations.
I'm not going to argue with that. I believe Nolan already has a good Bond script in his head.
Deadpool & Wolverine is a sign of a dying franchise? The last Star Wars made a billion dollars. I guess I have to ask you what you're definition of dying is. Mind you I never said Bond was on it's deathbed to begin with. It's just asinine to suggest Bond is the only movie series which is still standing.
I don't care about delays due to a new director, and Spider-man was released a few months later and made nearly $2billion at the box office. So, I think covid is a convenient excuse for them.
My problem is Eon waiting years to start forming a script and then engaging in a mad scrabble to complete it before they have to commence shooting. Or they have to start filmng while the scribe is handing them new pages in the next room.
Well, I might be wrong, but I think that's generally how films work (at least big ones like Bond).
As soon as you have to pay writers/commence the project, you invest money into it. It's in pre-production. Generally you have a deadline/release date by then.
Rewriting a script during production isn't that uncommon either, at least historically in terms of film. There are stories of writers on classic Hollywood films from the 40s working all night to rewrite scenes due for the morning shoot.
I was under the impression that that is indeed how it works, @007HallY. And I'm not sure they can commission people to write scripts and keep it out the books. They didn't do that in the old days either, did they? Wasn't TMWTGG going through rewrites with a very hot deadline? Even then, they didn't have finished scripts lying around. I don't really understand why, though. But indeed, that doesn't seem to be something they can do.