It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
From what I understand it's always the case with scripts. I've only worked on small indie type films, but even there having to rewrite stuff during production isn't uncommon. Sometimes alternative ideas brought up work better, maybe a location falls through and something has to be re-jigged etc. Could be for any reason.
As for off the books writing... I really don't know. It's possible I guess, but they'll still have to pay/contract the writers in some form. I think the producers plan a lot of stuff in advance before getting writers involved anyway. I guess there's not always much point in doing so too long prior because a) it costs money, and b) they want to know stuff like what locations they can get, the budget etc, all of which can only realistically be cemented during pre-production and affects the script. There's really not any point in getting a writer to craft a climax, say, in a very specific location only to realise that being able to film in that place within the timeframe will be impossible. That's kinda my experience with it anyway. But again, I really don't know for sure with Bond.
Yeah, Disney/Star Wars films are doing brilliantly:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/04/14/disneys-star-wars-box-office-profits-fail-to-cover-cost-of-lucasfilm/#
Just brilliant. No film since 2019, where it was diminishing returns leading to this last film.
On another note: NTTD was released in October. When viruses, like Covid, were feasting. The audience for these films skews older…., whereas;
Spidernan came out in the spring, when COVID numbers were decreasing. Oh, and it’s a family comic book film.
But, in the end, Dog himself wouldn’t be able to convince you of the way the film industry runs, and why this horrible ninny of a woman isn’t actually incompetent , she’s one of the best in the industry. That’s just your bias because you don’t like the films. You have absolutely zero proof of her incompetence and lack of taste (other than her tastes don’t trend with yours). So, have a fine day!
Simple question: Why don't you ever hear about any of the other film franchises having major script problems?
TND, DAD, QOS, SP, NTTD. It's a pattern.
Though we have a few bootlickers who enjoy defending Poor Barbara a little too much. This isn't Firing Line, you're not ascribed a debate position.
@Daltonforyou
"Though we have a few bootlickers who enjoy defending Poor Barbara a little too much." No, you've got it all wrong. Again. I've got no personal interest in defending BB. I just think you're attacking her unfairly, as I've stated a few times already. You're blaming her for things she played no role in, and for things that may actually be smart decisions. Don't do that "poor Barbara" thing, please, it's childish. I have defended other many other folks from the Bond series in the past whom I feel are sometimes unfairly maligned, including Lazenby, Dalton, Arnold, Denise Richards, Glen, Moore, ... Bootlicking is not my style. But since you've reached that low point, I presume it can only get personal from here and I wish to avoid that.
As I said, Star Wars had some pretty significant problems after Colin Trevorrow left/they had to effectively redo the script. And that may have contributed (in my opinion) to the quality of that final film.
I only had a quick look online, but seemingly other relatively recent films that went into production without a fully formed script due to behind the scenes problems/deadlines are: Men In Black 3, Edge of Tomorrow, the first Iron Man and the last Pirates of The Caribbean. I'd say you wouldn't be able to tell with at least half of those. DC films have had their share of script/production problems (to the point Justice League had to replace its director/presumably redo the script on the fly, but I don't know 100%).
I'm sure there are many more examples of these sorts of problems in other franchises/examples of films that had to rewrite during production or where the script wasn't finished prior to shooting. Some masterpieces were made like that (ie. Casablanca, The Shining, Lawrence of Arabia). That and I think a lot of this stuff is very much external stuff/beyond EON's control. Not much they can do. They handled it well in my opinion.
No need to get nasty, my friend :) There's no point in getting wound up and calling anyone bootlickers. We're just Bond fans chatting about the character/franchise we like to pass the time. It's not that serious.
@Daltonforyou
Read about the script issues on your beloved Srar Wars Films, read about the MCU script issues and re-shoots on The Marvels, read about Lethal Wespon 4 not really having a script by the time they went to principal; read all about the script issues of JL after Snyder left; Prometheus, The Rise of Skywalker, The Mummy (2017), Spider-Man 3, Suicide Squad (2016), John Carter… let’s go back all the way to Waterworld, or even Godfather 1… all of these examples, all with well known script and on set issues…
I thinks it’s the lethal injection of noise from bitter, anonymous, “fans”, quite frankly @DarthDimi . They’re a very vocal minority, and their efforts go into screaming the loudest, and if anyone should take an alternative viewpoint, they’ll set you up and verbally hit you like a penata. They’ve nothing more to do with their time and energy. And in the modern era, they have platforms to rant and rave.
But the average filmgoer doesn’t read this stuff, or if they do, breeze over it. The average filmgoer just wants to lose two hours of time in an entertaining way and can’t be too fussed one way or the other. This is who the writers write for, the producers make films for, and the people film financiers are betting will go and see their investments.
The rest is uneducated pontificating and screaming, butt-hurt fan-boys who aren’t getting the movie they WANT, and they want everyone to know how “stupid, untalented” etc etc, the filmmakers are.
Truth is, these guys couldn’t build a Lego set, let alone assemble a film for a $200 million dollar feature that takes 3-5 years to develop, prep and build.
Bond scripts were never truly 'perfect', were they? Take TB. Bond's success hinges on him seeing the tattoo on Lippe's arm. Too much coincidence for my taste. But ten minutes later, enough other things have happened for me to have almost forgotten about that silly coincidence. That's also why the brother thing from SP doesn't ruin the movie for me. It's not good, but the film has plenty of other stuff going on to make me forget about it. Some scripts do annoy the hell out of me, like AVTAK. But all of this boils down to taste, nothing more.
I'm always reminded of Hamilton saying that if you believe the nonsense from the GF PTS, you'll believe everything he throws at you after the theme song. And so we can all relax and have some good fun. GF's script isn't perfect, but the film became a smashing success and is still one of the most celebrated Bond films today. There's much more to a Bond film than just its script. And some people like them a bit silly, while others want them dead serious. You can't please everyone. The delicate balance that modern scripts have to find is: how can we please people from columns A, B, C, and D? I believe that's the big challenge ultimately. If you want your Bond film to be another fun crowd-pleaser, you'll need a "compromise" script.
In defense of Star Wars, Carrie Fisher dying REALLY messed up Episode 9. I think the failure of The Book of Henry was certain studio head's reason for getting rid of Colin Trevorrow. They wanted a movie, by that date. JJ Abrams was the safest bet. Same with Michael Arndt and TFA. They had a release date to meet. If you can't reach the goal, you're gone. It's not just Lucasfilm. The MCU has certain story beats they think they have to hit. However, sometimes I think they don't realize that the scripts are always going to help them get there. The only problem that I have EON's approach was with QOS and Marc Forster being anything you didn't want from a Bond movie. It's honestly no one's fault at EON why QOS turned out the way it did.
I like your viewpoints. SF's script does A LOT of "too coincidence" moments. Namely in the escape and the subway.
Indeed. Coincidences are everywhere in the Bonds. Some, we hardly notice, while others stick out like a sore thumb. But coincidences can often be forgiven, like when the droids accidentally landed in the hands of Darth Vader's son. Oops, wrong series. ;-)
Nearly every Bond film has a bit of coincidence built in. That Bond should romance the daughter of one of the few people who can connect him to Blofeld is a big coincidence in OHMSS, but I rather like that. I'll happily pardon GE for Bond's coincidental meeting with Onatopp and subsequent investigation into her affairs. But SF, like you said, toys with coincidence a bit much at times. Again, though, what do I know? I'm not a professional screenwriter. I wouldn't be able to put five decent minutes of film on a page. ;-)
Yeah, Fisher's death is a hell of a thing to have to deal with. Book of Henry is genuinely a terrible movie as well (not a fan of Trevorrow personally) but I think what didn't help was there was seemingly limited creative oversight over the trilogy as a whole. Johnson was doing things like killing off the main antagonist in the second movie/setting Ren up to be the villain or whatever, establishing that Rey had an ordinary background etc. All of that's completely undone in this bizarre, heavy handed retcon in the third and it's really weird. I refuse to believe they couldn't have run with some of those ideas while course correcting.
Bond certainly has its share of retconning/having to run with specific ideas in the last two Craig films, but they do so much better.
I always find the online debates about that SF moment pointless personally, and it's pretty much for the reasons Hamilton gives. The fact is Bond films are prone to plot holes, contrivances, illogical moments etc. And that's fine as long as in the moment (or on first viewing) you're running with the story.
I'm not sure if anyone ever thought about Silva having a convenient trap laid out for Bond the first time they watched it (it's not even that illogical). There's much more glaring faults in Bond anyway (much of CR's second half genuinely doesn't make any sense if viewed from that perspective. My favourite non-sensical moment is Bouvoir in the TB PTS dressing as his own widow to his fake funeral... why exactly would he ever do that?)
But of course...
Or have an author write an ACTUAL adult Bond novel or two. Thankfully, Kim Sherwood will be building towards Bond more likely than not. Barbara does her job well.
This has happened before in the Bond franchise.
The women-haters are going to hate Barbara Broccoli no matter what objective evidence we present of the amazing quality, and series-enhancing casting, of CR and SF. Sexism is their issue, not ours.
OMG, off topic but Prometheus! Charlize! Run to the left or right of the wheel! I literally remember nothing else about that movie.
Many good movies had 'script problems". Casablanca for example.
I think the real issue is that they don't know what to do. It gets more hard each time.
This is from 2021. We haven't moved forward much from then.
Yes I am sure another Bond film will eventually happen. It wouldn't surprise me if a script has been already been completed, but EON don't want to announce this yet, until they have a production date, director, actors cast, etc. which could still be some time off.
The hiatus between LTK and GE must have been a long drawn out affair, but I don't remember feeling it like I do with this period, and I was just as big as Bond fan back then as I am now.
The fact that we didn't have the internet back then to check on daily gossip, or air our frustrations on forums like these, must have made the gap between the 2 films much worse, but I don't remember feeling it.
Maybe I was too young enjoying myself as a student... ;)
As per the discussion yesterday and a list of examples of troubled productions and scripts, this is what was just announced:
https://deadline.com/2024/08/joaquin-phoenix-exits-todd-haynes-movie-1236035685/
This is a kick to the goolies as instead of recasting, they’re closing the actual production. It shows how fragile films are to assemble.
@jetsetwilly … October 2027 will be the release date of the next Bond film. Villeneuve will likely be helming.
I have genes that go back to Nostradamus himself.
Like most of Hollywood these days then. Or
or his bark side is a dangerous place to be be if he is a dog owner!
I do think Barbara would wait for Villeneuve.
Oh, I hope @peter's prediction will eventually translate into reality. That would be a dream, even if we have to wait for 2027.
BTW, just a quick note to say that, in this product placement world, we now live in a time when the perfect looking Aston has been released (the new vantage, of course), and Daniel Craig has just casually unveiled a perfect new Seamaster 300, all black on a mesh, at the Olympics. And there's no Bond to go with both ;)) Let's hope the brands keep their good taste for another couple of years ;)
.
Well back then you had less access to information on EON's progress, so people had no choice to be patient. Now, we can literally analyse every single corner of the internet...
That guy certainly left an impression on you, since you are clearly still holding grudges and feel the need to bash him in the most immature way.
Where I come from we know that movies are not made by "pressing a button", so you must be referring to somewhere else. From idea to release it can take up to 3-4 years for a huge blockbuster (that's why no movies are made about the Russo-Ukraine war yet, for example).
I haven't seen anyone arguing that it should have been made. But nothing that indicates a move into pre-production has left some of us worried.
@Denbigh
In my case, sleepless nights invite occasional attempts at writing not even a Bond script, but a good story for starters. It's extremely difficult, IMO. I'm not a professional, of course. ;-)