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TOMORROW NEVER DIES (1997)
Directed by Roger Spottiswoode
"Fun for the whole family."
TND managed to collect two top 10 spots: two 9th places and one 10th. Additionally, three more top 15's were noted.
A middle-of-the-road entry for many it seems, with the big bulk of its placements being between 15th and 20th.
There were however also five bottom 5's, of which two 23rd places were its lowest rankings.
TND received a total of 94 points.
The plot was more closer to reality with the news manipulation, it's a wide concept which we could create more different plots, Wai Lin proved herself as Bond's equal, matching his every strength and skills, the great PTS, adrenaline thrill action scenes, nice score, and Brosnan as Bond himself was great.
The only flaws I find in here (of course, no Bond film is perfect aren't we?) Are Jonathan Pryce as Elliot Carver, the first instances of a great character that's got squandered by a miscast, and Teri Hatcher and her character, Paris Carver, which had no chemistry with Brosnan's Bond, and the scene of Bond forgetting her death minutes later when followed by an action scene, the title theme is decent, I guess, but the one by KD Lang (which became the ending theme) should've been the main title theme, instead.
Sure, it's not one of the greats, but I think it doesn't belong to be in the lower tier of this ranking, it's actually in my top 10, #10 to be particular, it's a good film, even outside of Bond, when just looking at the standards of most action films, it's a standout one compared to the rest, it has a story, not just a generic action film like Stallone, Van Damme, and others out there, it's good.
Having said that, TND isn't too high on my list. I love the first part with the pts, the title song + sequence, Oxford, the Hamburg segment, the halo-jump and the diving scene; after that though it's a bit too much shoot 'm up for me. #21 for me atm. Good, but I like others better.
I think it’s great! It has a very classic Bond feel in the sense everything’s set up quickly and moves along without feeling frantic/breathless. The PTS is one of the best of the series as well. Carver’s scheme, while a little bit silly (it’s rather odd that General Chang isn’t really in this film despite being so important to Carver’s plan), obviously benefits from having the ‘fake news’ idea. It’s one of the reasons people remember this one today and it’s a very fresh twist on a rather generic villain’s scheme.
I actually even disagree with conventional criticisms of this film. I think Pryce as Carver is fantastic. He’s this seemingly harmless, even dweeby eccentric in the public eye, and yet what he does in this film is quite horrifying. He coldly kills his own wife, bombs a ship full of people without a second thought, and even orders Stamper to gun down the defenceless survivors. Pryce does a great job at portraying Carver’s megalomania, his coldness and, as the film progresses, his descent into madness. I think it’s a great idea for a villain, and again is a very relevant idea today (many questionable public figures tend to be outwardly affable people but are actually quite dodgy in practice). I’d go as far to say casting Hopkins would have been the miscasting in this instance (there’s no guarantee he’d have played a good Bond villain anyway. Great actor but he has phoned it in before). I’m also quite fond of Paris Carver. I know people cite a lack of chemistry between her and Brosnan but I think it works and the two feel like former lovers uncomfortable around each other initially (the scene with Bond waiting and meeting her at the hotel works too. Wonderfully written, acted, and directed scene - very Fleming-esque with Bond waiting with a gun, drinking vodka etc). It’s a great idea for a Bond girl, the wife of the villain being a former lover of Bond’s. The film plays it really well too with M effectively ordering Bond to use Paris to get to Carver, and of course Bond being understandably uncomfortable with this idea! I love the title song too (I really don’t understand why people tend to prefer Surrender. A well done song but there’s nothing special about it).
I even like Dr. Kauffman! A very silly albeit dark character.
The film’s faults: the majority of the secondary henchmen are weak - Gumpter, Stamper etc. The romance between Wai Lin and Bond feels a bit forced (I like Wai Lin otherwise, although she’s not terribly interesting). There’s some questionable sound mixing when Bond is attacked by Carver’s goons at the party!
Shame it’s so low. A really fun Bond film.
Wai Lin is cool, but never becomes all that interesting of a character, she has zero chemistry with Bond. I think Jonathan Pryce is fun in his over the top delivery, but his henchmen are a little too cartoonish. Teri Hatcher gets too much hate I think, she could have been a lot better, but at least with her there was an attempt to create something to care about, which the film is otherwise firmly lacking.
Here is the ranking so far with my placements to the right.
25. Die Another Day #23
24. The World Is Not Enough #10
23. Diamonds Are Forever #25
22. A View to a Kill #22
21. The Man with the Golden Gun #18
20. Spectre #24
19. Tomorrow Never Dies #16
Only big disreprency so far is TWINE with a 14 spot difference, after that it is Spectre with just a 4 spot difference.
THE GOOD
Arnold's score
PTS
Everything in Hamburg, especially the parking lot car chase and Brosnan's enjoyment
The motor-cycle chase
Michelle Yeoh
The HALO jump
Herr Stamper and Dr Kaufman
Pryce
THE NOT SO GOOD
The plot of YOLT again
The Steven Seagal level climax
Teri Hatcher
The underwater boat drill
The sudden ending
My biggest beef with the film is that it isn't GE 2.0, yet that's what I had expected, silly me, in 1997. I walked out of the theatre somewhat disappointed. The film has grown on me since, but remains in the middle.
I was the number 11 for this one! I absolutely love it and I won't apologise: it's total comfort viewing Bond for me and one of my very favourites, even though I couldn't help but rank it a little lower considering that if I'm being objective it's not as actually good as some of the others. But the cast is great, the music is wonderful, the locations are gorgeous- who doesn't want to go to that Chateaux party? Even when it's rubbish (ancient Bond having slightly embarrassing fights) it's wonderful fun to watch as long as you're prepared to laugh along with it.
It's definitely better than TMWTGG, you're all mad :D
I was the other 9! Yes, it's just a really decent Bond film; does everything you want one to. It doesn't reinvent the idea of Bond as GoldenEye perhaps manages to slightly, and the interest curve falls off slightly towards the end, but it just keeps rolling along and remains bags of fun.
I agree with your points about Surrender (they made the right choice) and Wai Lin: she's amazing but her and Bond don't feel romantically right. And yeah, the whole idea of an evil media mogul is just brilliant. Everyone loves Dr. Kauffman though, don't they? A real highlight of the film.
I love the pts, the idea of having one of Bonds former flames turn up, the BMW chase in the car park, the motorbike chase is exciting, Carver is a wonderfully over the top villain played so well by Jonathan Pryce and Wai Lin has her moments.
I don't like the climax aboard the ship, the sea drill is just silly, Stamper has been cloned from Red Grant enough, the underwater sequence is rather dull. Especially when one ponders what Bond was doing there in the first place, and where was he going to go afterwards? He's in the middle of the south China sea alone!
The lack of any travelogue. None of the locations are used to full effect. They're just a location for the next action set piece. Most of the film looks and feels like it was shot in a studio.
And finally, Dr. Kauffman, I'm one of the few who don't like this character. I should like him, he's one of those wonderfully bizarre characters that the Bond series does so well. But I just don't get on board. I find him annoying and about as threatening as a wet paper bag.
As a follow up to GE, this does a fine job of not copying the former, and if anything is more exciting in the action levels. It's really a non-stop romp from start to finish.
However, as much as I enjoy it, there are other Bonds that I enjoy just a little bit more.
NO TIME TO DIE (2021)
Directed by Cary Joji Fukunaga
"That was an eye-opening experience."
Many may have expected this one earlier, but eventually it ended up in a middle-of-the-road spot.
That's probably due to some of its avid fans: five top 10's were counted. Three of those were in the lower half of the top 10, one was a 5th place and one member even gave it top spot.
There are, though, also quite a few who aren't sure about this one: seven bottom 5 ratings were given to NTTD, out of which one came in penultimate and another one was put at the very bottom.
NTTD is a divisive entry and its rankings were to be found all over the playing field, which explains why it doesn't end up too high without coming close to the bottom either.
In total NTTD obtained 105 points.
I don’t hate it, like all Bond films it has its merits. I don’t even mind that they killed off Bond. Whilst it wasn’t needed, it worked in the context of this film and Craig’s story arc.
The Good
Daniel Craig is as always first class as James Bond, and his swan song is no different.
More Felix, I loved that we got more of Jeffrey Wrights Felix Leiter.
Paloma, how could you not like Ana de Armas. Beautiful, great actress, great scene. Perfect Bond sequence.
Nomi and the scooby gang. I like the idea of a new 007 trying to get one up all the time over the former 007. Also the scooby gang seem to work in this film. Maybe because their screentime is limited. Maybe they’re better written in NTTD.
The pts, it’s a long one, but when we get the Matera car chase, it pays for itself. Wonderfully shot and executed.
The Bad
The story is weak. Heracles isn’t really established well enough. We know it’s dangerous and people die a horrible death. But who is Safin selling it to?
Obruchev, he’s a cartoon scientist with stereotypical accent and even worse humour. For a film that takes itself seriously, this character is a let down.
Safin, he’s not given enough screen time to make him scary. A threat, a challenge for Bond.
We’re told that whoever is behind everything is going to be very smart and very dangerous. We just don’t get to see any of this.
Some of the dialogue. Maybe this is me being nit picky, but I don’t like it when Bond calls M darling.
He’s never referred to M in this way before. It’s all a bit 60’s Avengers for me. A small gripe, but it doesn’t fit.
The action. When it comes it’s pretty good, the pts is the standout. After that it’s fairly tame. The Cuba scenes, the sinking boat, even the Norway chase doesn’t quite have that really impressive Bondesque look and feel.
And finally, too many people die!
First we see Felix Leiter get killed.
Then Blofeld is knocked off.
Then after Bond has defeated the villain, he learns he’s been infected, so sacrifices himself to.
It’s too much, there’s too much going on. A new 007, a villain with a connection to Madeleine, the death of Felix, SPECTRE wiped out, the death of Blofeld, Bond re-instated at MI6, a virus that doesn’t really show its full threat. But was created by M.
Bond finding out he’s a father!
The death of the villain who seemingly has no real motive for his evil doing.
The death of James Bond!
Even though the film is long, even then it’s a lot to cram in and digest.
As with all Bond films I don’t hate this one. I really do enjoy it for most of the run time.
There’s more films I prefer to this one though.
For how much I can tolerate SPECTRE, whatever worse that film had done was what this film had dialed up to 11 and in spades! Overcomplicated family drama, nonsensical, irrational (and illogical) and undercooked plot, convoluted sub plot lines, out of character moments for Bond, Craig acting like himself at times (particularly in the second half), emotional manipulation, overacting casts, and confusing narratives, and this film had taken the new torch from SPECTRE by making itself worse than its predecessor.
Doesn't helped that this film lacked originality and creativity and relied on callbacks to makes sense some of the concepts like using We Have All The Time In The World in Bond and Madeleine's romance that clearly belonged to Bond and Tracy's relationship, and the nonsense use of Aston Martin V8 from The Living Daylights in the most illogical way of 'just' showing Bond travelling from London to Norway (nice).
I may add: But even Zimmer's scores in this film felt and sounded like he's just copying The Lion King (1994) again, in fact, 'The Square Escape' and 'Opening The Doors' sounded like 'To Die For' from that Disney film (try listening to it, I could hear some similarities in vibe and tune).
And while the idea of having Bond die was interesting, the filmmakers failed to add or support a strong backbone to support that idea: putting obvious plot hints that could 'unnaturally' lead Bond to his fate and interweaving them in one narrative to make sure that the audience couldn't find any leak in order to oppose that ending (because as what the film had shown, "it's the only way to resolve whatever the problems of this film are"), this film felt like the writers wrote the script backwards starting with their idea of Bond's death and finding any solid scenarios that could further support their point where each they may have different ideas but despite of their differences and being incoherent, they've still stuck to their guts and patched all of their ideas in that script like a broken vase where each pieces have been glued altogether.
This film had also a lot of plots that none of them had been given to breathe and develop in their own ways, and either one of them could make for a plots of multiple Bond films to come: Safin and Madeleine, Safin and Nanobots, Safin and his revenge to SPECTRE, Madeleine's secrets, Madeleine and Bond's relationship, the (forced and contrived) SPECTRE and Blofeld closure, Bond and the new 007 (and talking another identical issue of Bond and his relevance in this modern world again 🙄), Bond having a daughter, Logan Ash subplot and probably so many more. Think of it, too many plots in one film, yet, they're all compressed together in one film? This has been the most convoluted Bond film I've ever seen, beating out the likes of Octopussy and The Living Daylights.
The same for the characters, too many characters yet some of them were only used as plot devices, and the other ones which were there but not given any time to develop due to the other characters needing exposure too:
Plot Devices: Paloma, Logan Ash, Primo, Mathilde.
Main characters yet undercooked: Safin, Nomi, and again, Blofeld.
And the cinematography, if SPECTRE relied on yellow color all the time, this film relied on dark hues and blue green tint that I'm having a hard time seeing some of the scenes because they're too dark (the entire third act in Safin's base and the whole Cuban shoot out).
And some irrelevant plot points that didn't makes sense if one may comprehend: The continuation of SPECTRE and bringing back Blofeld, for what? To just kill him off, man, Blofeld had been arrested in the last film that bringing him back here would be nothing but some sort of contrivance, the same for Madeleine and her little story in the train (again, in the last film) about the man she had shot when she's a kid, okay, there were many back stories from the Bond Girls in the whole series that are way more interesting and more fleshed out than Madeleine's story, why not focus on them? Why the need to make an entire film based on that little story of hers? These were all not necessary and mostly sounded like an afterthought if I may propose the same idea in an writing room.
Literally, I can't say any positive things about this film, just no, not even in rewatchability, it's a film I just can't enjoy to watch, just like The Man With The Golden Gun.
TND: #15 - Sentimental favourite for me, and very good Bond film that checks all the boxes. It's kind of Brosnan's TB in a sense that it followed on from a gold classic with bigger scale and investing more $ into everything. TND and it's massive marketing campaign was the peak of Brosnan's Bondmania.
NTTD: Well, one of them has to come last. A lot of great moments in there, with Bond in Jamaica (which could've done with another 5+ minutes), DB5 mini guns (which should've been kept secret until the film's release), and entire Cuba section peaking with Spectre dropping like flies. The horror and bizarre factor in this film is on point. Norway sections could've felt more Bondian and less time spent at the lair. Some great dialogue exchanges in there between Bond, Nomi, M and Q. All villain deaths here are satisfying imo, even Blofeld. Bonus points for providing a unique Q-vehicle in the glider sub. Only seen this film twice! I like it enough, and I know I'll appreciate it more with repeated viewings.
I’ve said my share about it so I’ll be brief. I think it’s a very well made film (although perhaps sometimes lacking some of that Bondian creativity within specific sequences) with some great moments and an undercurrent of fatalism (which isn’t bad, I think Bond should have that). The story is a bit convoluted at times, and it leads to a sense of vagueness by the finale (who are the buyer ships? What is Safin’s actual goal here?) There’s smaller criticisms there that have been brought up - characters like Safin and Nono are a bit undercooked etc.
I had no intention to do so, I wasn't referring to the film itself, I was just referring to its placement in this contest, with 18th out of 25th being a middle-of-the-road position to end up in :)
Oh no, I completely get that, and with that in mind you’re not wrong! As you yourself said it’s controversial which has levelled itself out to this position.
The plot and villain's motivation are completely nonsensical and as Benny pointed out, there are just too many big dramatic plot points, which lessen the impact of each other. Non of them make me feel anything. When the death of James Bond fails to make me feel anything, there is something seriously wrong.
Despite all of this, the film still manages to get to the 21st spot for me, as it does have some decent scenes, I think Ana de Armas does an incredible job. The action scenes, while not particularly memorable are certainly a step up from Spectre across the board, especially in the PTS. The heist scene where Project Heracles is stolen is really well done. There is also more chemistry between Craig and Seydoux this time around, I would even say Seydoux is one of the highlights of the film. Craig is a mixed bag however.
Please EON, spare us for any more cheap throwbacks to old Bond films in the future. We really don't need to see the DB5, TLD car, OHMSS music and so on. Make us something original. Can we also say the villain with facial deformity is a dated gimmick that has run its course? In 4 out of 5 of Craig's films the main villain has a facial deformity gimmick, even some of the secondary villains/henchmen have it.
Went down quite a few spots after a second viewing.
PTS is quite unique and excellent. First hour is also pretty good but after that it goes all downhill.
I don’t have an issue with killing Bond but I certainly take issue with the way it was executed and to top it off, the inclusion of WHATTITW is the single worst offense in the entire franchise’s history.
Afraid I will have to agree with most of that, though for me it went slightly up because the first half really is superb.
The pts, the Jamaica segment, the Ana de Armas / SPECTRE party scene; that's all amazing stuff. Also really like the title song + title sequence here. Apart from Paloma, I also like Logan Ash, who I think is rather funny (he reminds me of Archer). Léa is my highlight of the film though, I love her in everything I see her in and NTTD is no exception.
My problem here is that there's too much going on and none of it gets the attention it needs and / or deserves. For instance, if Bond turns out to have a child, can we please spend more time on that? If Felix dies, can we please make that the most important moment of the film in question?
Too many ingredients spoil the dish here for me, though it has gone up for me because if the great first half. Also number 22 on my list.
Here's again my excerpt from my thoughts on NTTD in this thread:
NTTD was #12 for me, and it usually fluctuates between that and 14th-15th for me. I guess my last viewing of it was really great. The things I don't like about it, I really, really, really do not like, but the positives are so good that it's at least balanced out enough that I still have fun with it. It looks beautiful, and Craig is pretty great in it (albeit a little inconsistent at times, much like the action). Where I take issue is the pacing, Malek's Safin, and I don't think I'll ever be happy about Bond dying.
That last line is exactly how I feel about it, and it's really all I can ask for anymore. I don't need a perfect installment every time a new one is released (though how nice would that be?), but as long as the pros outweigh the cons, I'll consider it a win.
I've given that a lot of thought myself, @Creasy47. I wonder if some of that has something to do with us. We all expect things from a new Bond film that it's bound not to deliver. Or, perhaps the studios have "outgrown" our romantic notion of what constitutes a fan-pleasing Bond film. Or perhaps there is no such thing anymore since fans have grown too diverse in their Bondian tastes as well...