Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited August 29 Posts: 2,016
    echo wrote: »
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.

    Yes. She was and what an action sequence that was! So very good to this day. I always get goosebumps when Dalton's Bond raises the half tanker and drives through the fire with Kamen's almost metallic Bond theme blasting out...Wow!

    So who was in charge of the crater base explosion in SP? Gregg Wilson?
  • Posts: 4,139
    echo wrote: »
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.

    Yes. She was and what an action sequence that was! So very good to this day. I always get goosebumps when Dalton's Bond raises the half tanker and drives through the fire with Kamen's almost metallic Bond theme blasting out...Wow!

    So who was in charge of the crater base explosion in SP? Gregg Wilson?

    No idea. It's worth saying though that both those scenes are exceptionally well executed technically. The major difference is that LTK had a much better concept/script to work with.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    007HallY wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.

    Yes. She was and what an action sequence that was! So very good to this day. I always get goosebumps when Dalton's Bond raises the half tanker and drives through the fire with Kamen's almost metallic Bond theme blasting out...Wow!

    So who was in charge of the crater base explosion in SP? Gregg Wilson?

    No idea. It's worth saying though that both those scenes are exceptionally well executed technically. The major difference is that LTK had a much better concept/script to work with.

    Yeah. That true.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited August 29 Posts: 556
    echo wrote: »
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.

    Yes. She was and what an action sequence that was! So very good to this day. I always get goosebumps when Dalton's Bond raises the half tanker and drives through the fire with Kamen's almost metallic Bond theme blasting out...Wow!

    So who was in charge of the crater base explosion in SP? Gregg Wilson?

    I think Gregg was in charge of the Austria Plane- Car chase if I'm remembering correct. Very novel and fun. I think it's probably the best action sequence in Spectre arguably, between the whole Day of the Dead bit, and the train fight.
  • Posts: 3,276
    I think Gregg was in charge of the Austria Plane
    That setpiece reeks stupidity.

    Instead of just following the jeeps, landing at safe distance and then taking care of businees, Bond choses to attack the jeeps with the plane itself seemingly without a plan, and then, as predicted, crashes but eventually by sheer luck makes it so that he ends up at the exact same spot as the jeep with Madeleine in it, crashing into it. And to add insult to injury, they just had to cross-edit the whole segment with Q sitting in a cable car to make sure that any possibility of real tension was sucked out of the whole thing.

    The only setpiece in SP that worked for me was the one in Mexico. From the tracking shot, to the music, the sheer scale with the huge crowd, Bond chasing Sciarra, the fight in the helicopter. Come to think of it, my favorite parts of both SF and SP are probably the PCS.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited August 29 Posts: 1,646
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I think Gregg was in charge of the Austria Plane
    That setpiece reeks stupidity.

    Instead of just following the jeeps, landing at safe distance and then taking care of businees, Bond choses to attack the jeeps with the plane itself seemingly without a plan, and then, as predicted, crashes but eventually by sheer luck makes it so that he ends up at the exact same spot as the jeep with Madeleine in it, crashing into it. And to add insult to injury, they just had to cross-edit the whole segment with Q sitting in a cable car to make sure that any possibility of real tension was sucked out of the whole thing.

    The only setpiece in SP that worked for me was the one in Mexico. From the tracking shot, to the music, the sheer scale with the huge crowd, Bond chasing Sciarra, the fight in the helicopter. Come to think of it, my favorite parts of both SF and SP are probably the PCS.

    Agreed. The rest of both of those films rapidly unravel, plot-wise and action-wise, for me. But they sure do start strong.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @Zekidk, SP was fantastic at zapping any energy or excitement out of its action sequences by reverting back to what the MI6 crew was doing at the same time.

    Why yes, I'd love to see Moneypenny getting food out of her refrigerator during what is already a rather dull car chase.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 556
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I think Gregg was in charge of the Austria Plane
    That setpiece reeks stupidity.

    Instead of just following the jeeps, landing at safe distance and then taking care of businees, Bond choses to attack the jeeps with the plane itself seemingly without a plan, and then, as predicted, crashes but eventually by sheer luck makes it so that he ends up at the exact same spot as the jeep with Madeleine in it, crashing into it. And to add insult to injury, they just had to cross-edit the whole segment with Q sitting in a cable car to make sure that any possibility of real tension was sucked out of the whole thing.

    The only setpiece in SP that worked for me was the one in Mexico. From the tracking shot, to the music, the sheer scale with the huge crowd, Bond chasing Sciarra, the fight in the helicopter. Come to think of it, my favorite parts of both SF and SP are probably the PCS.

    Lighten up, it's a James Bond movie, this is a guy who escapes the Soviet Army in a cello case riding down the hills of Austria.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 29 Posts: 16,383
    echo wrote: »
    The tanker explosion after Bond flames Sanchez in LTK, with Bond running and staggering away from the big explosion, is what I thought the Spectre explosion would look and feel like. It was just too casual. Bond and Madeleine looking at it, as if it was the press taking their photos during a premiere. Anyway, I've come to like SP. But for the record it broke, that explosion should have been something.

    Barbara Broccoli was in charge of that LTK sequence.

    Yes. She was and what an action sequence that was! So very good to this day. I always get goosebumps when Dalton's Bond raises the half tanker and drives through the fire with Kamen's almost metallic Bond theme blasting out...Wow!

    So who was in charge of the crater base explosion in SP? Gregg Wilson?

    I think Gregg was in charge of the Austria Plane- Car chase if I'm remembering correct. Very novel and fun. I think it's probably the best action sequence in Spectre arguably, between the whole Day of the Dead bit, and the train fight.

    Yes I agree, although sadly veteran Bond alumni Terry Madden was badly injured on that set and had his career ended, so I guess it didn't go too smoothly.
  • Posts: 1,986
    With Craig as the most serious Bond yet, one expects less silliness. Both wings tore off at exactly the same time, guaranteeing the wingless body would continue on a straight path. I would have expected that in a Moore film.
  • edited August 29 Posts: 4,139
    I kinda like the idea of the plane scene. It has a nice Bondian twist to it in the sense that the plane goes from being airborne to essentially a land vehicle. It has that cool element where the audience think Bond is at a disadvantage, but instead he's able to roll with the punches.

    I think what's missing is a bit of creativity in how Bond manoeuvres the failing vehicle. I dunno, perhaps he could have used the failing/smoking engine as a sort of smokescreen to dispatch one of the cars. Maybe one of the cars tries to chase him through the log cabin but can't make the landing the plane can because of its size. Or maybe one of the propellers could have been used to cut something that would crush one of the cars... I dunno.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 556
    CrabKey wrote: »
    With Craig as the most serious Bond yet, one expects less silliness. Both wings tore off at exactly the same time, guaranteeing the wingless body would continue on a straight path. I would have expected that in a Moore film.

    I think that honor would go Timothy. I think Craig has been trying to escape that image with SP and NTTD.
  • Posts: 4,139
    CrabKey wrote: »
    With Craig as the most serious Bond yet, one expects less silliness. Both wings tore off at exactly the same time, guaranteeing the wingless body would continue on a straight path. I would have expected that in a Moore film.

    I think that honor would go Timothy. I think Craig has been trying to escape that image with SP and NTTD.

    I think they were leaning into it a lot with SF. But definitely, his Bond is a lot more relaxed and humorous in those last two.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 29 Posts: 3,152
    Rather than the SP plane chase, I think I'd've preferred the original 'parkour on skis' sequence that Logan wrote or the snowmobile chase that replaced it, tbh.
  • Posts: 1,859
    mtm wrote: »
    It's not a generational thing; different people just like different things. People of the older generation wrote the Bond spinoffs.

    Of course it is a generational thing. People like different things because that is what they are exposed to during their generation. My generation was brought up during a time when there was a Bond film almost every year and the entire pop culture revolved around secret agents in film and TV. It had such a profound effect on me that it became a part of my life style since 1964.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    delfloria wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's not a generational thing; different people just like different things. People of the older generation wrote the Bond spinoffs.

    Of course it is a generational thing. People like different things because that is what they are exposed to during their generation. My generation was brought up during a time when there was a Bond film almost every year and the entire pop culture revolved around secret agents in film and TV. It had such a profound effect on me that it became a part of my life style since 1964.

    The older generation is still around and gets exposed to many things, and comic books have been around since the 30s or so: you'll find plenty of older people who like comics and continuation novels etc. - the first Bond one came out in the 60s. If you're into that stuff then it's fine, but there's nothing wrong with it either.
  • Posts: 380
    Venutius wrote: »
    Rather than the SP plane chase, I think I'd've preferred the original 'parkour on skis' sequence that Logan wrote or the snowmobile chase that replaced it, tbh.

    I could be way off but I think the reason that sequence went through such drastic changes from script to screen is because Craig hurt his foot/ankle during production.

  • Posts: 4,139
    Burgess wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Rather than the SP plane chase, I think I'd've preferred the original 'parkour on skis' sequence that Logan wrote or the snowmobile chase that replaced it, tbh.

    I could be way off but I think the reason that sequence went through such drastic changes from script to screen is because Craig hurt his foot/ankle during production.

    Yes, and apparently it was under consideration anyway because Craig doesn't ski at all (obviously he wouldn't have been doing stunts, but just for basic shots it's needed).
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 30 Posts: 3,152
    According to Mendes (in Some Kind of Hero), he really wanted the ski chase in SP but Dan shot it down immediately, saying 'Well, I don't ski' and that was that! Always struck me as a bit odd, really - Dan probably didn't ride the motorbike on the roof of the Grand Bazaar in SF either or do many of the other things his stunt doubles did, but he didn't veto any of those quite so firmly as he appears to have done with the skiing sequence in SP. Not sure what was going on there, tbh. If he'd've had to do some of the skiing rather than just have headshots superimposed on the stunt guy, maybe he did have an eye on potential injuries - wasn't this the period when Rachel Weisz had been concerned about all the damage he was incurring from pushing himself so hard?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 30 Posts: 16,383
    I think skiing is something it's hard to pretend to do: you can't really be not much of a skier and pretend to be a great one, and having doubles for every shot would look a bit rubbish. Craig at least did a lot of his own running.
    When Pierce was rather conspicuously on the back of a cart for every shot in his ski chase it did look a bit rubbish. The shame of it is that it's one bit of action Roger could have actually done really well as he lived in Switzerland and was very comfortable on skis, but I think they didn't want to risk him on them.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    mtm wrote: »
    I think skiing is something it's hard to pretend to do: you can't really be not much of a skier and pretend to be a great one, and having doubles for every shot would look a bit rubbish. Craig at least did a lot of his own running.
    When Pierce was rather conspicuously on the back of a cart for every shot in his ski chase it did look a bit rubbish. The shame of it is that it's one bit of action Roger could have actually done really well as he lived in Switzerland and was very comfortable on skis, but I think they didn't want to risk him on them.

    I don't think it helped either that not only did it look rubbish, but the ski double didn't look or act at all like Pierce.
    It's a shame about the potential ski chase in SP, it could've been really good.
    I'd love a bit of ski action in Bond 26, I think it can often be an exciting action scene when done well. Thinking OHMSS, TSWLM and FYEO as examples.
    I agree Roger always looked natural on skis, obviously as he was a keen skier in his personal life.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 30 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, Sir Rog would've done a lot better on skis than he did when running! Er, probably.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 682
    I wouldn't mind if we cut down a little on the globetrotting and went back to keeping the majority of the film confined to one country (or even one city), much like the novels and the early films, as opposed to just powering across the world.

    I haven't always had as strong a sense of place in the last three decades of the series as I have with the first three, even if the settings are utilised quite well for action.
  • Posts: 561
    I'd love a return to skiing in 26. It lends itself well to the big screen.
  • Posts: 1,630
    SKIING: I have to figure that with the care taken in producing Bond films these days, it would look MUCH better than in the painfully obvious sequences shot in studio with the Bond actor in front of a screen. That was the case in OHMSS, in TWINE and the several times Roger Moore's Bond went out on the snow. They looked better than most of the other times, but even they had shots included which would have been better left out.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    I think the good thing about ski action as opposed to say underwater action, is that you get a sense of speed with skiing.
    Underwater action can be slow and often lacks any tension, even if it is dramatic in nature.
    I think any action set on a train also helps convey the speed involved and can usually also give a real sense of danger and threat. OP is good example of this, with Roger’s studio work hanging under the train with a revolving sleepers and tracks beneath him working seamlessly with that of the stunt team on location doing it for real.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Benny wrote: »
    I think the good thing about ski action as opposed to say underwater action, is that you get a sense of speed with skiing.
    Underwater action can be slow and often lacks any tension, even if it is dramatic in nature.
    I think any action set on a train also helps convey the speed involved and can usually also give a real sense of danger and threat. OP is good example of this, with Roger’s studio work hanging under the train with a revolving sleepers and tracks beneath him working seamlessly with that of the stunt team on location doing it for real.

    The same about the SF train fight.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    BMB007 wrote: »
    I'd love a return to skiing in 26. It lends itself well to the big screen.

    I do think, especially when I am skiing, it is kind of amazing how often Bond gets himself into a pickle at the top of a mountain and needs to get down it fast quite often! When you're actually there you realise how implausible it is as there's just not many reasons to be at the top of a snowy mountain :D
  • edited August 30 Posts: 3,276
    Burgess wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Rather than the SP plane chase, I think I'd've preferred the original 'parkour on skis' sequence that Logan wrote or the snowmobile chase that replaced it, tbh.

    I could be way off but I think the reason that sequence went through such drastic changes from script to screen is because Craig hurt his foot/ankle during production.
    IIRC, the final revised script was exactly how it ended up playing out. They shot the scenes several months later.
    I wouldn't mind if we cut down a little on the globetrotting and went back to keeping the majority of the film confined to one country (or even one city)
    That would go against audience expectation. Like not having the JB theme in it. The next one should go bigger, not smaller.
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