What is one Bond film generally not well-regarded but you genuinely can't understand why?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2 Posts: 16,597
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't know if it's generally not well-regarded, but I'm often baffled by the scorn which Skyfall receives from a lot of fans. I think it's one of the very best Bond films, right up there potentially even jostling for the top spot.

    I agree. It's either people love it or absolutely hate it. I'm in the former

    Even then I think it's more Bond fans who feel that way about it. Most people I know outside these forums would say it's one of the best Bond films. Without it I really can't see Craig's Bond era being quite as successful.

    Anyway, for me TND is one I can't understand not being quite as well regarded. I think nowadays it has a much better reputation amongst wider audiences owing to the media mogul/fake news aspect (and how entertaining the film itself is), but I'm actually quite surprised it wasn't quite as well received at the time. It's not perfect (no film is) but it's got that wonderfully fast, but fine tuned pace to it the very earliest Bond films have, and it's fun and even dramatically gripping to watch in places. It's one of my most watched Bond films.

    Yes I've always enjoyed it, it's just plain fun. I've been baffled at its low regard too. GE has a little more sophistication about its direction, it's working on a few more levels, but TND is a straightforward Bondy spy plot and enjoyable on its own terms. It's also got a couple of the all-time best 007 set pieces in there for my money.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,207
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Quantum of Solace

    The leanest meanest Bond film! I can understand some viewers have a problem with the editing, but then this is why the film repays repeat viewings! But it has so many other great qualities. Craig is a force of nature as Bond, visceral action, cool locations, perfectly paced and an outstanding score.

    Bond groups on FB (Which i really should avoid to keep my sanity) always come up with the allegation it's a carbon copy of the Bourne series. Yet again, following a well worn narrative that isn't remotely true (Bit like those Moon landing conspiracy nitwits)

    Number 8 in my rankings. If only the rest of Craig's Bond films could have been like this!

    Yep, with you all the way there mate!
    Admittedly I do remember being thrown by the editing in the cinema when I saw QoS first, but it's the one Bond movie that rewards greatly on multiple viewings!

    I like QoS well enough, but if a movie's editing fails to communicate basics of what is going on--conventions established over a hundred years of filmmaking--upon a first viewing (I don't think anyone understood the boat chase on his/her first viewing), QoS has failed on some level.

    No one goes into Bond expecting an experimental film. It's not Warhol or Anger. So I think Forster failed on that level.

    The Bourne films don't quite push the editing to the point of incomprehension the way QoS does, but Bourne comes close to that line too.

    This is partly why SF was so well-received, by comparison. Its editing is classical and easily understood on the very first viewing.

    Yes, but SF is deathly dull! What little action there is, is poor and not on the grander scale of other Bonds. And QOS has great action scenes, but it has very strong dramatic scenes too. I would also take issue with SF being better photographed, it has a few very striking scenes, but a lot of the interior sequences I find flat! I think QoS has a richer look throughout and I prefer Schaefers work here!

    Missed this comment earlier, but I agree 100%.

    I'm sometimes under impression that the name Roger Deakins is enough to give SF top marks for cinematography, but I don't find it particularly handsome or atmospheric. That's not to say I think it's poorly done or ugly, it just feels a bit dull sometimes. I also prefer Schaefer's work on QOS, which is so much richer imo.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2 Posts: 16,597
    All the points made about Skyfall are very interesting to read, but as per the thread title, I genuinely don't understand what you're all going on about! :P It's absolutely superb!

    I think it looks stunning too, not because of the name of the DOP, but because of how it looks.

    I do think it's interesting that so many Bond fans are quite out of step with what the general audience enjoy though, because it was the biggest 007 hit for many many years with the audience and critics alike, and as far as I'm aware it's still very well regarded as one of the very best (its RT audience score has it at no.4, although I know that's all often quite contentious). It's surprising because it's not like these are particularly fanbase-facing films, like Star Wars or the Marvels or anything like that, they're general mass market appeal, so it's odd that fans have a different taste to the general public.
  • edited December 2 Posts: 4,300
    I suppose we're all different. To be honest I find QOS's cinematography sometimes very contrived for absolutely no storytelling reason. Random artsy shots of bowling balls in the foreground as Green and his men walk into the hotel, an overhead shot of the fan as Bond and Slate fight (which honestly must have taken a good while to set up, and yet it breaks the visual strategy of the fight, most of which is a bit closer/claustrophobic, and is only in the edit for a second) etc. Some rather bizarre line hopping as well in the MI6 walk and talk (although whether that's a cinematography or editing problem in this instance is debatable, but it could be either or even both). They're cinematography choices which take me out of the film unfortunately.

    Otherwise it's ok and there are some nice establishing shots in there and there's some vibrancy to the locations. But I find SF's cinematography so much more atmospheric, polished, and quite frankly far more engaging storytelling wise. Deakins is a big name and was when he did SF, but no, I don't see it. There's a reason why that cinematography is praised. And QOS' not so much.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't know if it's generally not well-regarded, but I'm often baffled by the scorn which Skyfall receives from a lot of fans. I think it's one of the very best Bond films, right up there potentially even jostling for the top spot.

    I agree. It's either people love it or absolutely hate it. I'm in the former

    Even then I think it's more Bond fans who feel that way about it. Most people I know outside these forums would say it's one of the best Bond films. Without it I really can't see Craig's Bond era being quite as successful.

    Anyway, for me TND is one I can't understand not being quite as well regarded. I think nowadays it has a much better reputation amongst wider audiences owing to the media mogul/fake news aspect (and how entertaining the film itself is), but I'm actually quite surprised it wasn't quite as well received at the time. It's not perfect (no film is) but it's got that wonderfully fast, but fine tuned pace to it the very earliest Bond films have, and it's fun and even dramatically gripping to watch in places. It's one of my most watched Bond films.

    Yes I've always enjoyed it, it's just plain fun. I've been baffled at its low regard too. GE has a little more sophistication about its direction, it's working on a few more levels, but TND is a straightforward Bondy spy plot and enjoyable on its own terms. It's also got a couple of the all-time best 007 set pieces in there for my money.

    I think that's a good way of putting it - GE has more sophistication in its direction. That said I think TND sits comfortably alongside it. They're slightly different, although they have their broad similarities and are very much Brosnan Bond movies.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,677
    Yeah TND for me. I think it's as good as GE - it's just that GE had more classic/traditional iconography and TND couldn't live up to the film that saw the return of Bond plus the popular tie-in game released a few months earlier. Hype should've built for TND but we were still in GE mode.
  • Posts: 1,926
    TND remains my personal favorite Brosnan. The video game shootout to finish it is a bit too much of its time and not so Bond-like, but, aside from the very fast pace, I like that it focuses on the mission and action and keeps the personal aspect at a minimum compared to the two previous entries and those that followed. They deal with the Paris situation and move on, reminding me of the way the early Connery films dealt with those types of losses.

    One of the things that drags GE down a bit for me is the brooding on the beach scene and the emphasis on betrayals and new world we're living in, etc. TND just gets on with it and makes me wish future entries could blend their stories that way.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    I think while GE is the better film, I just happen to have a more breezy moment with TND.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,410
    TND is a bit of anomaly for me, it has some issues in the writing or none writing the final act is poor. Though TND has such a great score, i was buzzing in the cinema because of David Arnold, I loved the score so much I bought it on CD twice..
  • Posts: 12,521
    I think GE is more iconic and stronger in key areas - namely villains and story - but I do enjoy TND a lot still. I think both are way, way ahead of TWINE and DAD. The news angle of TND, and refreshing focus on action and getting from A to B over personal drama, I think makes it an appealing Bond entry these days. I myself used to rank it very low, but I certainly appreciate it way more now and like to refer to it as “Brosnan’s other good Bond film.” Unfortunately, TWINE and DAD only keep getting worse for me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 12 Posts: 7,593
    I feel like there are lots things in the Bond films that I love (GE soundtrack, Spectre) that don’t get much love from others, but I can definitwly definitely understand why. Can’t think of anything for myself that puzzles me why people don’t like it.
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