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"Don't worry, I'll tell the chef ": Thunderball Appreciation & Discussion

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    thedove wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Reading through this thread directed me to watch TB last night…. I have such an incredible soft spot, rate it highly, think it’s Connery’s best, and realize some (some, not all), of my love is tainted because it was the first Bond film I saw (it was on tv, and I must have been four or five); it still has that magic… from punching out the “widow” at the beginning, to Bond vs Lippe at Shrublands, to the glory that is Nassau, to a hijacked jet camouflaged in the ocean, to the psychopathic and cold Fiona Volpe (no femme fatale has been able to touch this character)…

    It’s just so fantastical and Connery was so smooth… His face-off with Fiona has always been , and will continue to be, one of the best confrontations in the Bond series.

    That film was always butchered for network TV. I recall the who Fiona and Bond in bed with the caged animal was chopped by ABC. Also the death of Colonel was cut so you didn't see the final pull back by Bond. The mink glove scene was chopped as well. I remember my first viewing of TB on VHS it was almost like discovering a deleted scene.

    I think it has more to do with the borderline explicit content: in the caged animal scene you can pretty much tell when Fiona Volpe is being penetrated.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,393
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Fiona and Largo are both great villains. Fiona provides the sass and sex. Largo is suave and cultured like Bond. He is different from previous Bond villains but very watchable.

    "Your coat, sir?"

    "Happy landings!"
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,491
    I believe in a Starlog interview with Richard Maibuam he seemed to indicate they had to invent things to make Largo appear more villainous. I think the Quist sequence fits into that. Even the dialogue between Fiona and Largo while Bond circles overhead comes across that Fiona is in charge. The film suffers a lack of energy when she dies.

    The whole Quist sequence makes little to now sense. It was supposed to be the day after Bond meets Largo at the Casino but for some reason that I can't recall was shuffled to be before Bond meets Largo. Now we have Quist returning after Bond punches Leiter for uttering double-o-7. Then Bond and Leiter say double-o-7 in front of Quist. Hunt did what he could with the editing but Young left him with a bit of a mess.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 699
    I recently re-watched Thunderball for the first time in years. I think it, more than Goldfinger, is actually the definitive Bond movie. Blofeld electrocuting his failed/disloyal goons, the villain who collects dangerous animals, the murderous femme fatale, Bond and the villain having cordial meetings while both are obviously trying to kill one another, the climactic battle scene between two armies, it all either started with Thunderball or was perfected by it.

    As a movie, it's rough around the edges. There's some shoddy editing and storytelling issues that others have talked about. The first act is a bit of a mess. But the atmosphere, exotic setting, memorable story, and charisma of the actors makes it all work.

    I used to dislike some of the SPECTRE scenes at the start because I thought it gave the audience too much info on what's going to happen, a common problem in the franchise. However, I found it very entertaining watching SPECTRE and MI6 making moves against one another, almost like two word powers committing their soldiers to the field. Editing these sequences out so that the audience only knows what Bond knows might make more sense from a storytelling perspective, but it would also make Thunderball way less epic, and in my opinion, less interesting.

    I also noticed for the first time that Largo is the series' first attempt at doing a "Dark Bond" character. He and Bond are both late for their respective meetings at the start, they both love guns, gambling, and women, and they're both dutiful servants of their superiors. Bond even compares himself to Largo when he's dancing with Domino, almost like he's aware of the similarity.

    It's easy to see why 60s Bond mania peaked with Thunderball: it took everything you could possibly do with Bond and did it full-bore, without becoming too cartoonish like YOLT. It's definitely shot up a few places in my overall ranking.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,927
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I recently re-watched Thunderball for the first time in years. I think it, more than Goldfinger, is actually the definitive Bond movie. Blofeld electrocuting his failed/disloyal goons, the villain who collects dangerous animals, the murderous femme fatale, Bond and the villain having cordial meetings while both are obviously trying to kill one another, the climactic battle scene between two armies, it all either started with Thunderball or was perfected by it.

    As a movie, it's rough around the edges. There's some shoddy editing and storytelling issues that others have talked about. The first act is a bit of a mess. But the atmosphere, exotic setting, memorable story, and charisma of the actors makes it all work.

    I used to dislike some of the SPECTRE scenes at the start because I thought it gave the audience too much info on what's going to happen, a common problem in the franchise. However, I found it very entertaining watching SPECTRE and MI6 making moves against one another, almost like two word powers committing their soldiers to the field. Editing these sequences out so that the audience only knows what Bond knows might make more sense from a storytelling perspective, but it would also make Thunderball way less epic, and in my opinion, less interesting.

    I also noticed for the first time that Largo is the series' first attempt at doing a "Dark Bond" character. He and Bond are both late for their respective meetings at the start, they both love guns, gambling, and women, and they're both dutiful servants of their superiors. Bond even compares himself to Largo when he's dancing with Domino, almost like he's aware of the similarity.

    It's easy to see why 60s Bond mania peaked with Thunderball: it took everything you could possibly do with Bond and did it full-bore, without becoming too cartoonish like YOLT. It's definitely shot up a few places in my overall ranking.

    Nice take. I agree.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,624
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I also noticed for the first time that Largo is the series' first attempt at doing a "Dark Bond" character. He and Bond are both late for their respective meetings at the start, they both love guns, gambling, and women, and they're both dutiful servants of their superiors. Bond even compares himself to Largo when he's dancing with Domino, almost like he's aware of the similarity.

    That's a great observation, not noticed that before.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,462
    Yes, TB is the Bond formula at its best.

    The bad guys steal something and Bond goes after them. It's the basic plot of many Bond movies.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    Thunderball is underappreciated nowadays, I think. It's large scaled, but at the same time it remains simple, sober even and not extravagant like many later entries.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited December 12 Posts: 2,190
    I love Thunderball. It feels good to know that to this day, the underwater battle hasn't been matched by any other film or film series.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 699
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    I love Thunderball. It feels good to know that to this day, the underwater battle hasn't been matched by any other film or film series.

    It's definitely my favorite of the "big battle" sequences.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,190
    slide_99 wrote: »
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    I love Thunderball. It feels good to know that to this day, the underwater battle hasn't been matched by any other film or film series.

    It's definitely my favorite of the "big battle" sequences.

    Yeah. It's the greatest!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,456
    Might be somewhat controversial but in terms of character I think Connerys Bond is at his most fleshed out in Thunderball. There's so many subtleties to his performance here, from the slight shake in the hand as he puts on his sunglasses with Domino, to the quiet dance between them in the beginning, to the cat and Mouse games between him and Volpe including the brilliant delivery of "well, you can't win them all".
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,190
    "I think he got the point"...one of the very best Bond quotes.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 13 Posts: 8,456
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    "I think he got the point"...one of the very best Bond quotes.

    TB has so many great lines.

    "She's just dead."

    "No, but I know a lot about women"

    "Looks terribly difficult... No it isn't, is it?"

    "Wait till you get to my teeth"

    "You're glad?"
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,190
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ wrote: »
    "I think he got the point"...one of the very best Bond quotes.

    TB has so many great lines.

    "She's just dead."

    "No, but I know a lot about women"

    "Looks terribly difficult... No it isn't, is it?"

    "Wait till you get to my teeth"

    "You're glad?"

    Yeah, looks like EON really went for catchy lines for this film.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,339
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Might be somewhat controversial but in terms of character I think Connerys Bond is at his most fleshed out in Thunderball. There's so many subtleties to his performance here, from the slight shake in the hand as he puts on his sunglasses with Domino, to the quiet dance between them in the beginning, to the cat and Mouse games between him and Volpe including the brilliant delivery of "well, you can't win them all".

    I don't think it controversial as I completely agree with the sentiment. For me TB is the best Connery film.
    Even though some of the dialogue doesn't make sense in the film: 'I forgot your ego mr. Bond.." until "not this one', makes little sense, but it's fun and played so well it just adds to the film instead of subtracting from it.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,029
    TB had to be big because GF was such a massive hit. My biggest criticism of the film has always been the sped action Disco Volante sequence. Upon seeing it when first released it was a film technique that called attention to itself, as did some of the rear screen projection. But we're talking mid-60s. Had the technology we have now been available then, those irritants would not exist. As for the underwater sequences being too long, boring, unclear, what have you, it didn't feel that way at the time. Today sequences are shorter and shift quickly. For me the first four Bond films worked. I've always been a fan of Largo, and Fiona, well, she's never been rivaled.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,491
    Yeah the breaking of the fourth wall with the "Not this one" in the Fiona Bond exchange did run the risk of taking us out, but it is delivered so wonderfully by Connery and Paluzzi that it flows in and doesn't call attention to itself.

    I remember the first time watching the film I felt a bit of fear for Bond. Captured by 4 men and Fiona, held at gun point. It seemed all was lost, but then the drunk offers alcohol and suddenly our man is on the streets with pissing dogs and double-o-7 bands!

    The fact that this was the first time Bond took on a wound was also shocking, positively shocking to me. But the wound magically healed in the future scenes. Reminds me of TWINE when he injures his shoulder. It is quickly forgotten after Renard pushes on it on their first encounter.

    I can't imagine Paluzzi playing Domino. I am glad that the producers had the good sense to cast her as Fiona and change the last name of the character to Volpe instead of Kelly in order for it to work.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 14 Posts: 14,694
    thedove wrote: »
    It seemed all was lost, but then the drunk offers alcohol and suddenly our man is on the streets with pissing dogs and double-o-7 bands!
    Yeah, take a sip guy is a bit of a convenience. Makes me wonder if he's one of Pinder's men.
    thedove wrote: »
    Reminds me of TWINE when he injures his shoulder. It is quickly forgotten after Renard pushes on it on their first encounter.
    Bond does hurt his shoulder a bit when he lands on the boardwalk at the caviar factory, but luckily, it would fully heal just in time for Christmas.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    I always understood the "I forgot your ego" etc tirade from Fiona Volpe not as breaking the fourth wall, but that she had studied his file. Surely SPECTRE had one on Bond at the time. They know who he is and what he does. Heck, even Grant in FRWL was aware of Bond's reputation.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,491
    I suppose we can draw that conclusion. They would know that Tatiana did in effect change sides and kill Klebb. Not sure how they would know about Pussy Galore? But your point is a good way to look at it.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,927
    thedove wrote: »
    The fact that this was the first time Bond took on a wound was also shocking, positively shocking to me. But the wound magically healed in the future scenes. Reminds me of TWINE when he injures his shoulder. It is quickly forgotten after Renard pushes on it on their first encounter.

    I think the shot in TB just grazed Bond's ankle, enough to make it bleed, but not so bad it was a detriment, whereas in TWINE they slam us over the head with the fact that Bond is hurt and it will make a difference until it doesn't, because Bond has to win. That's one of the many problems with TWINE, introducing things like that and either not doing anything with them or forgetting about them altogether. They should've shown the injury causing a direct consequence.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,694
    This film is packed full of continuity oddities and reoccurring props. Did you know that the MI6 file photo of the picnicking Derval siblings (which Bond holds) features the deck chair from the previous films' Miami hotel Fontainebleau poolside scene? And the cloud backdrop in the photo is used in the earlier photos of Tatiana Romanova.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 16 Posts: 8,339
    QBranch wrote: »
    This film is packed full of continuity oddities and reoccurring props. Did you know that the MI6 file photo of the picnicking Derval siblings (which Bond holds) features the deck chair from the previous films' Miami hotel Fontainebleau poolside scene? And the cloud backdrop in the photo is used in the earlier photos of Tatiana Romanova.

    Really? Maybe they were popular deckchairs? ;-)

    anyway, thanks to you I came across a wonderfull website. I asked the receptionist if they had any photos. somehow I forgot her answer:

    31b808_1bb518576d9145d6b124fc975fc25377~mv2_d_1417_1967_s_2.jpg
    So I went in to the waiting room. Apparently, things didn't move quickly there. Seemed the other guy had been there for a while

    31b808_0d7a43ecba09437f91f452a3e196a3eb~mv2.jpeg

    FOr those who want to waste their day:

    https://www.thunderballs.org/thunderballproductionstills?_escaped_fragment_=


  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,694
    Thunderballs.org is a great source of reference, I use it a lot.

    The deckchairs featured gold tubing. And other Fontaniebleau props would return in Thunderball, such as the blue hotel room key for Jill Masterson's room held by Fiona when she meets Paula, and Moneypenny's ashtray, most notably seen next to Goldfinger and his 'pigeon' Mr Simmons as they play gin rummy.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,234
    thedove wrote: »
    I suppose we can draw that conclusion. They would know that Tatiana did in effect change sides and kill Klebb. Not sure how they would know about Pussy Galore? But your point is a good way to look at it.

    I don't think they even need to know about Pussy Galore, but in any case they could have easily come with that information.
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