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Comments
Eh? Is this early April's fools?
I think every Bond film is at least one person's favourite, and at least one person's most boring Bond film. That's fine.
It's like Tosca, as Mr. White said, "it's not for everyone".
There are no boring Bond movies. Even my two least favourites are not boring.
I enjoy its more grounded and realistic story, compared to the outlandish MR that preceded it.
Is it a boring film or story?
Compared to some Bond films the story isn’t quite saving the the world scenario, but it’s still got a story that has purpose.
In comparison is no less threatening than say FRWL, LALD and especially TMWTGG.
The threat might not be a global one, but the implications are far from weak.
One of the highlights for me, aside from the more realistic angle, is the impressive action sequences. They’re plentiful and inventive. Using a 2CV to escape goons, the ski action that has Bond using his wits instead of a gadget. Similarly the keel hauling scene that imo is quite underrated is not only straight from Fleming, but is also beautifully shot.
So while FYEO may not have as large as scale threat as other Bonds, it’s not boring, at least to me. If Bond 26 has this back to basics approach, I’ll be a happy Bond fan.
Is this the first mission that Bond failed? I know that Craig's Bond also suffers quite a few failed missions but I think depending on what lens you put on the ending this might be the first time Bond has failed the mission. His objective was to return ATAC to London.
Ultimately destroying the ATAC was the only reasonable goal of Bond's mission. Remember that it should have been destroyed by the crew of the St. George's in the first place, and their failure to do this was the start of the whole thing. The main objective was that the Soviets wouldn't get it. Of course the Brits could replicate it. Bond's flippant remark to his almost-pal General Gogol refers only to what turned out to be a sort of tie in the race to get it. But Bond's mission was still accomplished.
Then why does Bond and Melina retrieve it from the wreck? They should have just finished the detonation and blown it up in the ship.
Yeah it doesn't really make much sense. The British must still have it or the codes it runs, otherwise they wouldn't be able to communicate with their fleets, which would be mad.
Bond does play it quite strangely in this one: he should have just destroyed it immediately when they were in the St Georges: just set the bomb timer. But instead he removes it...? And in the sub on the way up too: destroy the ATAC. And yet he doesn't. It almost seems like he's a Russian double agent: at the climax there are too many people around so he can't hand it over to Gogol- notice Gogol takes it well and isn't angry with Bond... perhaps because Bond is his agent? :D
Bond is a KGB plant!! :P
For me it's all about the message of detente. I love FYEO for the ending just because I love the Bond franchise staring the Cold War in the face and laughing at it, which this ending does perfectly. Shows how silly all this is, and that no side ever really wins in war. We're even, at least until the next macguffin. Love it. Doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense because the filmmaking sells that message for me.
But seriously, I quite enjoy FYEO, even if I wish it was Dalton's debut. The locations are nice, and it does a good job of blending the two plots of FYEO and Risico while adding the ATAC on top. However, as a MacGuffin I always thought the ATAC was unoriginal. It felt like a mix of the Spektor/Lektor from FRWL and the submarine control system from TSWLM. And ultimately I think the score is mostly awful and doesn't sound like an action score at all. Never mind the whole revenge subplot with Melina which is so incredibly silly. She gets her revenge once, and doesn't feel bad about it for the rest of the film but Bond has to try and guilt her out of killing anybody else. Ultimately Colombo gets his revenge, and he even feels happy about it!
Slightly unrelated, but the Wikipedia page claims that the film takes from Fleming's FYEO, Risico (both fairly obvious), LALD (the keel-hauling sequence), Goldfinger (the Identicast), but also from OHMSS. And I can't think of what that could be. Is that just the reference to Tracy?
Some of the similarities:
The submersible fight and motorcycle attack on Melina could also have been excised. It's not even clear why Kristatos lured Melina to Italy just to kill her. She shows up for a few minutes and then Bond quickly sends her off. This happens again in Greece, where Melina and Bond go shopping for food, and then Bond tells her he has to go meet Kristatos in the casino (why?). Melina doesn't actually become relevant to the story until Bond meets her at the underwater temple much later in the film.
And then there's the scene where Bond meets Q in a church only to be told that they can't find out which St. Cyril's the ATAC is at, to which Bond replies that Columbo would know. So why not go to him first? Why not just cut from Max dropping "St. Cyril's" to Bond and Columbo's team arriving there?
FYEO probably has more scenes like this any other Bond movie. The travelogue aspect is nice, but it also pads the runtime with scenes that aren't relevant. It's a shame, since so many other aspects of FYEO are so good, namely Moore and Bouquet, the chases and stunts, Locque, and the Cold War intrigue. Along with TWINE, FYEO would benefit more than any other Bond movie from a fan edit that trims the fat.
Yes, as you said @007HallY it feels like EON wanted old mixed with new. And didn't know exactly how to mix the two together. I think for the flaws, all team members should have some blame. But it all starts at the writing for me. Richard Maibaum always bragged about how he was the pro at writing Bond, but I don't think he should have been used here. Same with TMWTGG (along with Guy Hamilton). I think he liked to think that he could co-direct a Bond movie, but EON would know better. It also seems that one of the four main producers could be called a co-director of Bond: Cubby, Harry, Michael and Barbara. Instead of being a director, he'd be a script dictator, akin to James Cameron.
As for FYEO being boring, I wouldn't call it that. However, I would call it one of the least memorable Bonds. They almost grounded themselves to be too real.
We can nitpick or plot hole any film. A good film keeps you engaged and you just go along for the ride. The ones that don't keep us engaged and the ones where the holes become apparent.
To me the ending of the film un-does some of the wonderful things that came before. When Bond hurls that keyboard I am left to say why? Why destroy the thing you were meant to retrieve? If your mission was to destroy it, which I don't think that is Tanner's direction, then leave it in the St. Georges and blow it up real good. As double-o-6 days "Finish the job James."
Instead he retrieves it and then we have a third act that basically renders the mission and the whole story redundant since Bond hurled the damn thing off the cliff.
The involvement of Melina is problematic. She comes into the story with force and kills with ruthless actions. Then it's like Bond pets her on the head and tells her it is a too dangerous world for her. The rest of the movie she loses her agency and becomes a side kick.
We have some travelog shots in Greece. We have an attempt to do romance? Or is it just two people having fun and looking pretty in a pretty locale? After perforating Gonzalez Melina becomes a compassionate person. Even trying to save one of Columbo's goons at the end of the film. Then at the end when we need her to have her big ending with Kristatos, Bond intervenes again and tells her to behave.
This film could have been so much better with some tweaks.
Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that they said how they wanted a more grounded film more in line with FRWL and then put in exactly the same macguffin, only the British version rather than the Russian this time!
And FRWL has issues with that macguffin too: Bond steals it in such a way they know it's missing, so why don't they just change the codes to make it useless?
Yeah there's a lot of it which doesn't really hold up to much thinking; especially that stuff about luring Melina to the ski resort. Why keep trying to kill Bond if you want him to get rid of Columbo for you and frame Columbo for the whole ATC thing?
I guess one vaguely interesting thing is that Bond is never actually a spy/undercover in this one: everyone knows quite openly that he's a British agent all the way through.
Thanks. I suppose I can see the similarities between the films. It does seem maybe a bit of a stretch though. I'm also curious why Wikipedia mentions the novel as inspiration for parts of the plot?
It seems like the protocol for the ATAC was, if it's in danger of falling into enemy hands, destroy it, which is what the ship's crew tried to do in the opening. When Bond got to it, that wasn't the threat anymore, so he tried to retrieve it and return it to MI6 intact. He probably would've followed through on that if Gogol hadn't shown up at the end, at which point he had no choice but to destroy it.
Also, it's not really clear if that's the only ATAC there is, or if there are several in use by the British. If the script had made it clear that the ATAC was either a prototype or the only one of its kind, it would've helped clear a few things up and added more urgency to the story.
Tracy, plus skiing and the villain having a mountaintop hideout that the heroes have to infiltrate.
I think it's the fat that makes Bond movies interesting. Otherwise it would just be a Macguffin and action scenes.
Others must have seen something in him though, as he also played a villain in "Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade" (Walter Donovan) and "The Empire Strikes Back" (General Veers) during the same period.
Personally I've always thought Charles Dance would have been a much better choice, but sadly he was only assigned a minor role as a henchman.
...something they kind of resurrected with QoS.
Interesting. For a character singularly focused on revenge, Melina makes it rather easy for Bond to talk her out of it. However much I like FYEO, I was never too big a fan of Melina. She's in the passenger seat most of the film. I honestly wish they could have made her more like Camille.
QOS, on the other hand, offers a course correction on this character, assuming we are, indeed, to take both characters as distilled from the same rudimentary outlines. I rather like Camille. She's bold enough to sleep with one man just to get closer -- literally -- to another man. Before she can do that, however, she must get deep enough inside Greene's organization to run errands for him. He, of course, is on to her, and yet that doesn't stop her from being formally introduced to Medrano; she's got some nerve, I'll give her that. I especially like her vigorous attack on Medrano in the Dune Hotel. She's also perfectly practical: job's done, the beast is dead, one kiss for James and a few kind words, and oh well off she goes. There's something very efficient about her. ;)
I get that Camille doesn't necessarily feel like sleeping with Bond, possibly because she respects the emotional boundaries he's still visibly struggling with. I also get that QOS was released in 2008, whereas in '81, audiences expected Bond to bed his women, good and evil. My guess is that at some point, some serious "doing it" was expected from Bond and the leading lady in those days. Hence naked swimming with Melina and showering with Stacey.
Bibi could perhaps become a more conventional Bond girl who he does bed, and of course he also has Lisl as well.
I always think Lisl is quite an interesting character note for Bond at this point: Bond is actually quite romantic with her, walking with her on the beach the morning after, and he feels a bit more shaken than usual by her death. Bond has grown a bit here emotionally since Connery's time.
The beach is another echo of OHMSS, now that I think of it.