"I have a brudder". The role of family in Bond from twins, sisters and step-brothers and more!

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,283
    Watched the first half of DAF during my son's nap, Sean may not be lean and mean like in his first four outings, but the man's enjoying himself nonetheless. I watched YOLT and NSNA recently as well, and I think YOLT would have benefitted greatly from Sean's approach in either DAF or NSNA.
  • edited January 25 Posts: 2,929
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The Bond books were literally written when Fleming was getting married to Ann Charteris and she's pregnant at the time to Caspar, Fleming at the time who was used to Bachelorhood felt anxious and nervous at the thought of him having a family.

    Correct, and in CR Bond almost proposes to Vesper but at the end he's freed of any potential marital bond and left free to enjoy a different partner in each adventure, which was undoubtedly part of the books' fantasy appeal.
    I don't think those girls that Bond met were also being made for domestication like Bond himself... the girls Bond met were very much like 'use them and left them' kind of thing, once they're done with Bond, they would left him.

    Agreed. While we occassionally hear about one or two of the Bond girls getting married, it's easy to imagine most of the others continuing with a string of lovers.
    Fleming clearly didn't followed the tradition or the social norms in terms of characterisations, even the villains didn't have any child either or a love life.

    Yes, children, marriage, and family are pretty much banished from the books, and that was part of their fantasy appeal to men--and women.
    007HallY wrote: »
    What I liked about NTTD and Bond's fatherhood is that it's similarly forced upon him.

    I think the difference is that in the books Bond goes up to the edge of domesticity, marriage, and fatherhood, but always escapes in the nick of time, whereas in NTTD he doesn't, for several dispiting scenes at least.
    The breakfast scene with Mathilde isn't a straightforwardly joyous scene at all (I've always felt Bond comes off as a bit out of his depth/uncomfortable)...There's definitely a sense he's trying though.

    Yes, that's what makes it ultimately sentimental in my view; new Dad Bond is trying, even if he's awkward about it, and he and Matilde ultimately, and predictably, connect.
    Of course it's Bond's job and the demands of duty that prevent him from having that life, and what kind of Father he'd be/how well even Craig's Bond would fit into domestic life is debatable.

    The film might have been a bit more interesting and complex if it had subtly raised those concerns, instead of going hard on sentiment. In the book of OHMSS we have Bond's nightmare about married life, and even the film includes a line where Bond sombrely realizes he can't go on in the service. But Tracy was a livelier charcater than Madeline, and her sadly ironic last line, about Bond giving her a future, indicates that the film is as much her tragedy as Bond's.
  • edited January 26 Posts: 4,469
    Revelator wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The Bond books were literally written when Fleming was getting married to Ann Charteris and she's pregnant at the time to Caspar, Fleming at the time who was used to Bachelorhood felt anxious and nervous at the thought of him having a family.

    Correct, and in CR Bond almost proposes to Vesper but at the end he's freed of any potential marital bond and left free to enjoy a different partner in each adventure, which was undoubtedly part of the books' fantasy appeal.
    I don't think those girls that Bond met were also being made for domestication like Bond himself... the girls Bond met were very much like 'use them and left them' kind of thing, once they're done with Bond, they would left him.

    Agreed. While we occassionally hear about one or two of the Bond girls getting married, it's easy to imagine most of the others continuing with a string of lovers.
    Fleming clearly didn't followed the tradition or the social norms in terms of characterisations, even the villains didn't have any child either or a love life.

    Yes, children, marriage, and family are pretty much banished from the books, and that was part of their fantasy appeal to men--and women.
    007HallY wrote: »
    What I liked about NTTD and Bond's fatherhood is that it's similarly forced upon him.

    I think the difference is that in the books Bond goes up to the edge of domesticity, marriage, and fatherhood, but always escapes in the nick of time, whereas in NTTD he doesn't, for several dispiting scenes at least.
    The breakfast scene with Mathilde isn't a straightforwardly joyous scene at all (I've always felt Bond comes off as a bit out of his depth/uncomfortable)...There's definitely a sense he's trying though.

    Yes, that's what makes it ultimately sentimental in my view; new Dad Bond is trying, even if he's awkward about it, and he and Matilde ultimately, and predictably, connect.
    Of course it's Bond's job and the demands of duty that prevent him from having that life, and what kind of Father he'd be/how well even Craig's Bond would fit into domestic life is debatable.

    The film might have been a bit more interesting and complex if it had subtly raised those concerns, instead of going hard on sentiment. In the book of OHMSS we have Bond's nightmare about married life, and even the film includes a line where Bond sombrely realizes he can't go on in the service. But Tracy was a livelier charcater than Madeline, and her sadly ironic last line, about Bond giving her a future, indicates that the film is as much her tragedy as Bond's.

    I suppose I can understand how a film wouldn’t feel the need to explore that idea. It’s a bit of a tangent from the main drama of the story and is a bit too introspective. A book can more easily convey that.

    Yes, there are differences. But I wouldn’t quite phrase it as Bond escapes in the nick of time from domesticity in the books though. Tracy of course is murdered, and the situation with Kissy is quite sad and I’d say it's written in that tone. Effectively Bond getting any sort of alternative, even happy life is taken from him, conflicted as he is about it. So I do get the sense Fleming acknowledged the tragedy of Bond’s situation, and I get a similar sense of that in NTTD (I’d also say that I agree about the ending being similarly tragic for Madeline, but I do think the end of YOLT is similarity a tragedy for Kissy. The last chapter even gives us a lot from that character’s perspective. Arguably it’s more tragic for her than Bond!)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,560
    Now that I think of it the producers backed themselves into a corner with either ending with NTTD.

    If Craig's Bond lives, people will wonder where are Madeleine and Mathilde when the new guy shows up. He dies and people wonder how does a dead man return to life?

    I suppose the family one is easier to write out as if they wished to continue continuity they could say Bond got divorced and he never sees his child. I still have ambiguous feelings about giving Bond an actual family and have concerns how it played out on screen.

    Another familial aspect is in the film OP. Giving OP the backstory of Major Smythe was an interesting choice because it makes Octopussy more relatable and give her life of crime more sympathetic to the audience. The twins are another family aspect of the film. I wonder if there is love between Misha and Grisha or whether they see themselves has competitors. I loved how the dynamic worked with these two. The killing of the last twin has some poignancy for me.

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