Controversial opinions about the books

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  • Posts: 6,072
    Bond's Navy background would also make it hard to see him jumping from embassy to embassy in his prewar days which Fleming mentions (Kingston, Paris, New York and Moscow are all Bond's embassy jobs I believe).

    All right for Paris, New York and Moscow, but not for Kingston. Jamaica was still a British colony (complete with a governor) when Bond started his career. The only time he was there post independance was in TMWTGG, which takes place in 1964. Just setting the record striaght, that's all.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,836
    I also liked the Pan books, especially the designs on the Gardner books like Seafire for example.

    I think my new favorite would be the Folio Society covers, love them.
  • Gerard wrote: »
    Bond's Navy background would also make it hard to see him jumping from embassy to embassy in his prewar days which Fleming mentions (Kingston, Paris, New York and Moscow are all Bond's embassy jobs I believe).

    All right for Paris, New York and Moscow, but not for Kingston. Jamaica was still a British colony (complete with a governor) when Bond started his career. The only time he was there post independance was in TMWTGG, which takes place in 1964. Just setting the record striaght, that's all.

    Yes that is true, thank you for the correction. It does still stand though that it would be unlikely for Bond to do the sort of pre-war work he supposed did in Jamaica (I believe Fleming said stop Cuban drug smugglers or something of the sort) with the Royal Navy.
  • Posts: 17,871
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I also liked the Pan books, especially the designs on the Gardner books like Seafire for example.

    I think my new favorite would be the Folio Society covers, love them.

    I haven't really had a closer look at the Gardner book covers, as I haven't read any of his Bond novels. I do quite like the first edition cover for No Deals, Mr. Bond. It might not be all that exciting, but it reminds me of the cover style of some 70's and 80's paperbacks I have, that I like the look of.

    The Folio Society covers are really nice. I think that's the great thing about these sort of special edition books (both Folio Society and others); they don't have to look like the typical book covers we are so used to see. They can be more experimental, be illustrative or use patterns and shapes (like the Penguin Clothbound Classics).
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,553
    Gerard wrote: »
    Bond's Navy background would also make it hard to see him jumping from embassy to embassy in his prewar days which Fleming mentions (Kingston, Paris, New York and Moscow are all Bond's embassy jobs I believe).

    All right for Paris, New York and Moscow, but not for Kingston. Jamaica was still a British colony (complete with a governor) when Bond started his career. The only time he was there post independance was in TMWTGG, which takes place in 1964. Just setting the record striaght, that's all.

    Yes that is true, thank you for the correction. It does still stand though that it would be unlikely for Bond to do the sort of pre-war work he supposed did in Jamaica (I believe Fleming said stop Cuban drug smugglers or something of the sort) with the Royal Navy.
    I haven't read the books for quite some time, but embassies used to have quite a few military staff as well. They were liaison for the local counterparts, or intelligence operatives. I'm not too familiar with the way the Brits did it but he could've worked for military intelligence and be a navy officer.
  • Gerard wrote: »
    Bond's Navy background would also make it hard to see him jumping from embassy to embassy in his prewar days which Fleming mentions (Kingston, Paris, New York and Moscow are all Bond's embassy jobs I believe).

    All right for Paris, New York and Moscow, but not for Kingston. Jamaica was still a British colony (complete with a governor) when Bond started his career. The only time he was there post independance was in TMWTGG, which takes place in 1964. Just setting the record striaght, that's all.

    Yes that is true, thank you for the correction. It does still stand though that it would be unlikely for Bond to do the sort of pre-war work he supposed did in Jamaica (I believe Fleming said stop Cuban drug smugglers or something of the sort) with the Royal Navy.
    I haven't read the books for quite some time, but embassies used to have quite a few military staff as well. They were liaison for the local counterparts, or intelligence operatives. I'm not too familiar with the way the Brits did it but he could've worked for military intelligence and be a navy officer.

    That's why I mentioned "Naval Attache" as cover or something like that although I'm not sure the Navy would allow the MI6 to use that sort of cover.

    But anyway, the reason why I don't think military intelligence would work with Bond is because their brief is very war-planning oriented/direct wars going on at the moment. Meanwhile Bond's pre-war jobs don't seem to have much to do with that sort of thing. The two jobs I know Fleming thought of were the the Monte Carlo cheating job with the Romanians (referred to in CR) and the Cuban infiltration of Jamaica labour unions (mentioned in LALD). Both operations have pretty much nothing to do with what Defence Intelligence would get their hands on.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,821
    Some of my controversial opinions.

    TSWLM was in someways ahead of it's time for literary Bond. I say this based on the spinoffs, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Bond novel told in the first person from Bond's POV or another character's again one day.

    I think writing Bond novels set in the past is not really risk taking. At least in Ian Fleming's timeline. It worked particularly well with Anthony Horowitz's novels, but it truly needs to have a rest for good.

    I'm willing to bet that the next novel spinoff will be a classic villain origin story, hopefully set in modern day. My money is on Goldfinger or Blofeld, and their iconic evil allies.

    IFP really should have written novelizations of some of the early 2000's videogames in particular Everything or Nothing. Either Raymond Benson or Bruce Feirstein could have easily wrote it. I would have liked to have seen Max Zorin make a surprise appearance.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 2024 Posts: 4,821
    If IFP wants to make a collection of Bond short stories, then previous ones should be included. Fleming, Benson and Weinburg for sure, as well as the other unofficial short stories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond_uncollected_short_stories

    Some new ones would definitely be appreciated though. By both Bond writing alumni and new authors. From all time periods, and different characters.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,821
    https://crimereads.com/7-james-bond-books-better-than-any-of-the-movies/

    Should have stuck to non-Fleming novels for the list.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited February 2 Posts: 4,821
    I heard recently that Quentin Tarantino might write novelizations of his Reservoir Dogs and True Romance scripts. I would like to see some of the old Bond stories get a similar treatment. As I've said before, Everything or Nothing, Bloodstone and Skyfall would be the best candidates for this treatment. If Roald Dahl would have had permission, he could have written his own novelization of YOLT, akin to Christopher Wood and his two novelizations. As I've also said before, the entire DC era, (including his two video games) would make for a BIG, but worthwhile novelization. The two main movies that I think could benefit from this format are FYEO and OP. Some great in-depth passages could be done for both! I think it could be a way for IFP and EON to start getting along again.

    Also, we know that Raymond Benson tried to adapt the CR novel for the stage. I think someone should try that again. The time period should be the 50’s, but I wouldn’t mind a possible modern day version again. Another set of Bond stories that belong on the stage is the entire novel of Octopussy and the Living Daylights. They could be done realistically (and faithfully) on the stage as well. Honorable mention for the novel Moonraker, as there aren’t a lot of sets and it is fairly realistic. Too bad that the movie kind of destroyed its realistic style reputation.
  • Posts: 2,130
    I never want to see Bond on stage.
  • Posts: 4,634
    I personally think when Fleming’s Bond novels come into the public domain on a broad level (they already are in Japan and Canada) stage plays will be what we’re most likely to get rather than movies trying to compete with EON. We’ve already had an all female Japanese musical adaptation of CR. I can definitely see more artsy stage adaptations of the books. Not my thing personally (I don’t like theatre much) but it’ll appeal to an audience.
  • Something fundamental, went wrong with James Bond from his very creation and only Ian Fleming is to blame. Indeed, as they say in Hollywood, "What a mistaka to maka" ... Ian Fleming didn’t know what a secret agent really was!

    At least Le Carré had few blunders compared with Ian Fleming who dubbed James Bond a "secret" agent yet simultaneously depicted 007 as an employee on MI6's payroll. You may say "so what" because Bond is fiction. So is Postman Pat but his creator John Cunliffe never called him an Uber or Deliveroo courier.

    Now an MI6 secret agent would never have: (1) been an employee on MI6’s payroll who took holidays and submitted expense claims etc; (2) reported directly to the Head of MI6, had annual appraisals and been on extremely familiar terms with many other MI6 employees such as Q or Moneypenny; (3) been a frequent visitor to MI6 HQ and other MI6 buildings; and (4) even used his own name when he met ministers et al in Whitehall.

    Given Ian Fleming's background in British naval intelligence in World War 11, that contradictory classification of 007 was about as absurd as calling a Brain Surgeon a Hair Dresser or a Navy Seal a Coastguard as noted in the latest intriguing news article in TheBurlingtonFiles (advert free) website which is a tad similar to a virtual espionage museum with no entry fee.

    To quote from the article ... "As for 007 being “secret”, ... since everybody knew ... his favourite drink was shaken not stirred, I’m surprised he wasn’t poisoned more often … especially as he insisted on letting everyone know his name was “Bond, James Bond”! Perhaps Bond’s true skill lay in being so conspicuously ostentatious that no one believed he could genuinely be a spy!
  • edited February 2 Posts: 331
    Plenty of MI6 agents are backstopped with government cover as a spy and work in conjunction with MI6 HQ and staff. There's the famous "passport control officer" that actually traditionally represented the Head of Station of that particular region. What's perhaps less accurate is that Bond's cover flips from non-government (Universal) to government (a diplomatic passport with the Ministry of Defence) depending on which he chooses.

    And Fleming actually barely makes reference to MI6. While he does refer to SIS in OHMSS, there's enough deniability used to suggest the Bond does not work for them. Principally in the fact that Bond's Service is a part of the Ministry of Defence, while SIS/MI6 is responsible to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.

    While Bond in the novels does seem to frequent a building similar to MI6 HQ at the time, it's worth noting however that this building was hidden from the public, and of course many actual secret agents have frequented the much more public facing Vauxhall Cross building.

    Bond in the novels is also not particularly familiar with a Q or any ministers of the government. I suggest you give the novels a reread to clarify these details. As for Moneypenny and other Secret Service staff, I don't think it makes sense for James Bond to operate entirely in a vacuum with no Service contact. Operatives require a briefing, equipment, and so on and Service staff (for security reasons) must give the government equipment.

    I also don't think that Bond should be using a pseudonym in the line of duty: that sort of thing doesn't run with most operations because of natural instincts with one's own name, forgetting in vulnerable states etc (and Bond does use pseudonyms on the odd occasion, such as Hilary Bray in OHMSS and John Bryce in LALD). And as for Bond's fame, his fame in the novels is limited. Enemies such as the Russians know about him by photo and by name, but others such as Blofeld only know his name, and many others not in the intelligence community know nothing about him. Certainly, none of them know about a man who prefers shaken vodka martinis (which is probably not Bond's most consumed drink!).

    I think the opinion is constructed more off of the films than anything
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,112
    I guess in modern parlance Bond would be defined as an SIS officer, whereas the agents are generally people in whichever country or organisation they’re trying to get information from and have turned to spy for SIS, but I’ve no idea if they used those terms in the 50s.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,553
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess in modern parlance Bond would be defined as an SIS officer, whereas the agents are generally people in whichever country or organisation they’re trying to get information from and have turned to spy for SIS, but I’ve no idea if they used those terms in the 50s.

    According to SIS.gov.uk they're called 'intelligence officers' ;-) And yes, afak 'agents' are those who share information, often not even knowing they do. In East Germany they were called 'informele mitarbeiter' or 'informal co-operators'.
    I have the book on MI6's history upstairs, but that's too far a walk right now.
    @FutureIntel as @Reflsin2bourbons rightly stated, most things you refer to are movie tropes that aren't in the novels.
    And then there's the fact that in high society there have been 'agents' of whom it was very well known for which intelligence service they worked. This actually helped them in theri work, as people knew to whom to go to.
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