EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards

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Comments

  • edited March 10 Posts: 4,753
    delfloria wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I mean, I don't disagree Bond should be British (at least in the way he's played) but it's worth saying Brosnan's from the Republic of Ireland, Lazenby was Australian, and Bond has generally had a precedent of going with some out of the box actors with many of them either using their natural regional accents or letting it slip overtly on occasion. It's still very much a wide range of possibilities (including non-white actors).

    Stop with the non-white actor stuff. It just sounds like you are being PC. If that is what floats your boat go watch another character. Granted, the days of slapping a woman on the bottom and telling her "Man talk" and "fetch my shoes" are over but Fleming's character at his core is white.

    Ok? Well, I'm sorry if I offended you I guess...
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think there's a whole backstory with MGM giving Bond less budgets in the 80s which likely contributed to using 'in house' directors. I recall reading at one point they couldn't even afford Peter Hunt, and certainly not Lewis Gilbert. It also contributed to the 80s Bond films having lower budgets (MGM issues really have been a major issue with the Bond franchise, hasn't it?)

    I remember reading somewhere that following the disastrous “Heaven’s Gate”, MGM/UA ended up cutting back on the budget for FYEO to help save money. I’m not sure how true that is but it makes sense when you consider how much of a disaster “Heaven’s Gate” was.

    That's it! I think it was the case for the subsequent years as well. I guess Moore's (much deserved) pay check and film by film contract deals also had an impact. Not easy to deal with (as I always say I don't think there are any villains or heroes in this sort of situation).

    Oh yeah; to be fair, I’ve always felt that the reason some of those John Glen Bond films work so well for me is because of how constrained they were by budget; allowing more time to be put on story and character rather than just having a film feel like a series of set pieces edited together, which was perhaps my biggest problem with most of the 70’s era (LALD and TSWLM excluded.)

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,710
    Revelator wrote: »
    LALD was quite cheap, by the way. Moonraker and TSPWLM were the ones with a big budget. GoldenEye was also cheap, it's not like it was the TSWLM 2.0.

    LALD also looked cheap, especially in the low-scale climax, where Kananga operated out of the K-Mart version of a Bond villain's lair. Similarly, the non-Connery budget of DAF was reflected in its disappointing climax. GoldenEye had a lower budget than any of the later Brosnans, but it still cost $28 million more than LTK. Even adjusted for inflation, GE's budget is larger than TSWLM's, but this is probably because of the inflation in the costs of filmmaking, rather than just the dollar/pound.

    Yes, but films had just become much more elaborate between 1977 to 1995. Remember that this was the era of the True Lies and Die Hard 3.
  • edited March 10 Posts: 4,753
    Films like Bond have become more expensive to make over time just naturally. Even things like use of VFX/CGI means more money goes towards that (which is a factor as to why GE cost more even adjusted for inflation compared to TSWLM).
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    I think there's a whole backstory with MGM giving Bond less budgets in the 80s which likely contributed to using 'in house' directors. I recall reading at one point they couldn't even afford Peter Hunt, and certainly not Lewis Gilbert. It also contributed to the 80s Bond films having lower budgets (MGM issues really have been a major issue with the Bond franchise, hasn't it?)

    I remember reading somewhere that following the disastrous “Heaven’s Gate”, MGM/UA ended up cutting back on the budget for FYEO to help save money. I’m not sure how true that is but it makes sense when you consider how much of a disaster “Heaven’s Gate” was.

    Here’s the timeline of it all:

    December 1980: HEAVEN’S GATE has a disastrous premiere in New York, forcing UA to postpone its wide release so that the film could be recut.

    February 1981: FYEO concludes production.

    April 1981: HEAVEN’S GATE gets its wide release. Only grosses $3.5m against a production budget of $44m, making it one of the biggest box office bombs in film history.

    May 1981: Transamerica puts UA on sale and MGM purchased it.

    June 1981: FYEO is released by UA’s still active distribution arm, grossing $195m worldwide.

    The very last UA release was THE BEAST WITHIN in February 1982. The first MGM/UA release would be PENITENTIARY II in April 1982.

    So OP was really the first time Cubby had to deal with the big regime change, as FYEO was practically already in the can by the time MGM purchased UA. Similar parallel to NTTD already being in the can when Amazon made their purchase of MGM.

    Thanks for the timeline! I always forget that the MGM purchase of UA didn’t happen until post FYEO.
    Benny wrote: »
    The scripts started getting a little shabby, especially Licence to Kill and A view to a kill , which both have a tv movie quality, but the other three films of the decade are some of my favorites so...

    I’ve always thought that LTK had one of the strongest scripts in the entire series. Certainly holds up better as opposed to some of the preceding and following films.

    The Bond community would be boring if we shared the same point of view, so agree to disagree.

    I hear that; in any case I respect your views!
    Murdock wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The 80's Bond movies also missed that lavish otherworldly quality of Ken Adam's production design.

    I thought LTK had some unexpectedly impressive set design....

    LTK and OP come pretty close. I do also really enjoy the Main Strike Mine sets from AVTAK as well.

    Filmed in the same mine that Peter Hunt and Roger Moore shot “Gold” if I’m not mistaken.


    Gold was filmed on location in South Africa, with studio work taking place at Pinewood.
    AVTAK’s mine was shot in Sussex, with interiors shot at Pinewood, on a Peter Lamont designed set.
    Don’t think they’re the same

    Oh gotcha! I don’t remember where I saw that info but nonetheless happy to be corrected!
  • Posts: 1,688
    007HallY wrote: »
    Films like Bond have become more expensive to make over time just naturally. Even things like use of VFX/CGI means more money goes towards that (which is a factor as to why GE cost more even adjusted for inflation compared to TSWLM).

    Yes but TND was more expensive and it shows.

    This is why I think TND is really Dalton's ideal third film and not GoldenEye.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,710
    Would never have worked, the handover wasn't until the late nineties.
  • Posts: 1,688
    Would never have worked, the handover wasn't until the late nineties.

    Yeah, I Know but it is the third film that one could expect if you see the actor's previous ones.
  • edited March 10 Posts: 4,753
    007HallY wrote: »
    Films like Bond have become more expensive to make over time just naturally. Even things like use of VFX/CGI means more money goes towards that (which is a factor as to why GE cost more even adjusted for inflation compared to TSWLM).

    Yes but TND was more expensive and it shows.

    This is why I think TND is really Dalton's ideal third film and not GoldenEye.

    Going from the Bond 17 script from 1990 that's the sort of direction they likely would have gone in. In fact I think the villain in that one is pretty much an early version of Elliot Carver, and much of its story went into TND eventually.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,316
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

  • Posts: 2,205
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    Die Another Day has so much promise. I wish they had explored the relationship between General Moon and Bond, but alas they never went anywhere near it.
  • edited March 10 Posts: 4,753
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    Die Another Day has so much promise. I wish they had explored the relationship between General Moon and Bond, but alas they never went anywhere near it.

    DAD's got a lot of cool ideas. Even the gene therapy stuff is so weird and twisted I'd be up for seeing it done in a different way (perhaps not with a Korean man being turned into a white British billionaire though). I can imagine it being great if they'd gone into it with a slightly more serious tone.
  • edited March 10 Posts: 1,688
    Craig in SF looked too fit. These movies have never been too realistic.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,853
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    Die Another Day has so much promise. I wish they had explored the relationship between General Moon and Bond, but alas they never went anywhere near it.

    DAD's got a lot of cool ideas. Even the gene therapy stuff is so weird and twisted I'd be up for seeing it done in a different way (perhaps not with a Korean man being turned into a white British billionaire though). I can imagine it being great if they'd gone into it with a slightly more serious tone.

    Most Bond movies (as well as books and video games) generally have cool ideas, at least.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 10 Posts: 17,316
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.

    Yes indeed, SF does feel more real. I don't think it helps that DAD is so clearly shot with a sort of Home Countries version of North Korea and places like Hong Kong being very obviously on a sound stage.
    The stuff with Bond going underground and making contact with and doing a deal with a Chinese agent could feel really dangerous and risky, and it struck me that Bond wanting vengeance on Zao and going after him all feels a bit underheated. I genuinely wouldn't mind a more dramatic and slightly less stagey take on it. (Some really weird direction too: why do Bond and Graves start out so visibly angry with each other in that swordfight?)
  • edited March 10 Posts: 4,753
    Craig in SF looked too fit. These movies have never been too realistic.

    Agreed, they're not meant to be too realistic. But the audience has to go along with the story. For me personally, Brosnan's fake beard and appearance takes me out of the film. I don't believe the film is showing me a character who's been imprisoned and tortured for a year. I do, however, believe that Bond has been badly injured and is run down in SF because he looks tired and unshaven and the film is committed to showing the audience his issues, even if he's muscular.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.

    Yes indeed, SF does feel more real. I don't think it helps that DAD is so clearly shot with a sort of Home Countries version of North Korea and places like Hong Kong being very obviously on a sound stage.
    The stuff with Bond going underground and making contact with and doing a deal with a Chinese agent could feel really dangerous and risky, and it struck me that Bond wanting vengeance on Zao and going after him all feels a bit underheated. I genuinely wouldn't mind a more dramatic and slightly less stagey take on it. (Some really weird direction too: why do Bond and Graves start out so visibly angry with each other in that swordfight?)

    I've always found their interaction just before the sword fight a bit weird when you know the story. Graves (or indeed Moon) knows full well who Bond is, and Bond has no idea who Graves is (he might think he's connected to all this in some way, but at this point he's just a lead he has to follow). For some reason Toby Stephens seems sincerely confused when he asks Bond if they've met before and then flips between smarmy and angry, and Brosnan for some reason seems to be constantly glaring as if he's about to strangle the guy. He even says his 'Bond, James Bond' line in a bitter way. It'd make sense if Bond knew Graves was Moon, or that he was directly connected to him being betrayed, but that's not the case. Surely Bond would be more relaxed, trying to read this guy in his usual charming/confident way (or at least putting up that front), and Graves would the one on edge?

    But yeah, really weird scene. Everything about it just seems off, but not in an effective way.
  • Posts: 1,913
    007HallY wrote: »
    Craig in SF looked too fit. These movies have never been too realistic.

    Agreed, they're not meant to be too realistic. But the audience has to go along with the story. For me personally, Brosnan's fake beard and appearance takes me out of the film. I don't believe the film is showing me a character who's been imprisoned and tortured for a year. I do, however, believe that Bond has been badly injured and is run down in SF because he looks tired and unshaven and the film is committed to showing the audience his issues, even if he's muscular.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.

    Yes indeed, SF does feel more real. I don't think it helps that DAD is so clearly shot with a sort of Home Countries version of North Korea and places like Hong Kong being very obviously on a sound stage.
    The stuff with Bond going underground and making contact with and doing a deal with a Chinese agent could feel really dangerous and risky, and it struck me that Bond wanting vengeance on Zao and going after him all feels a bit underheated. I genuinely wouldn't mind a more dramatic and slightly less stagey take on it. (Some really weird direction too: why do Bond and Graves start out so visibly angry with each other in that swordfight?)

    I've always found their interaction just before the sword fight a bit weird when you know the story. Graves (or indeed Moon) knows full well who Bond is, and Bond has no idea who Graves is (he might think he's connected to all this in some way, but at this point he's just a lead he has to follow). For some reason Toby Stephens seems sincerely confused when he asks Bond if they've met before and then flips between smarmy and angry, and Brosnan for some reason seems to be constantly glaring as if he's about to strangle the guy. He even says his 'Bond, James Bond' line in a bitter way. It'd make sense if Bond knew Graves was Moon, or that he was directly connected to him being betrayed, but that's not the case. Surely Bond would be more relaxed, trying to read this guy in his usual charming/confident way (or at least putting up that front), and Graves would the one on edge?

    But yeah, really weird scene. Everything about it just seems off, but not in an effective way.

    But the sword fight itself almost makes up for it.
  • Posts: 4,753
    delfloria wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Craig in SF looked too fit. These movies have never been too realistic.

    Agreed, they're not meant to be too realistic. But the audience has to go along with the story. For me personally, Brosnan's fake beard and appearance takes me out of the film. I don't believe the film is showing me a character who's been imprisoned and tortured for a year. I do, however, believe that Bond has been badly injured and is run down in SF because he looks tired and unshaven and the film is committed to showing the audience his issues, even if he's muscular.
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »

    I get what you mean. I do think FYEO fumbles the character stuff somewhat, but the Dalton films have that feel to them.

    It's interesting to see the Bond films slowly edging towards that, from Roger being a bit serious in FYEO, to Dalton's Bond making a fairly serious mistake in LTK by jeopardising Pam's Heller deal, to Brosnan's Bond having a few moments of drama, right up to Bond becoming more of a human character by CR.
    I was watching DAD last night (don't ask!) and thinking, the first half or so with the torture, and Bond going after Zao with the help of the Chinese is all quite a good spy plot which is given quite a light treatment in the film- I was actually imagining Craig in that portion of the film and I thought it would work pretty well with a more dramatic, serious touch.

    The image I always come back to when thinking about it is Brosnan with his outlandish fake beard and noticeable amount of weight on him (for a man who's been imprisoned for a year anyway). It's almost as if the film is trying to get this dramatic plot detail out of the way so it can move on. There's something quite silly about how it comes across. I know there's always that fantastical element to Bond with him being essentially indestructible - or at least able to do things no real man could - but SF has Craig genuinely unshaven, and lit/made up in certain scenes to look gaunt. It at least gives us a sense that what's happened to Bond has damaged him physically, and it makes him getting back on form more impactful. I'm sure DAD could have done that.

    Yes indeed, SF does feel more real. I don't think it helps that DAD is so clearly shot with a sort of Home Countries version of North Korea and places like Hong Kong being very obviously on a sound stage.
    The stuff with Bond going underground and making contact with and doing a deal with a Chinese agent could feel really dangerous and risky, and it struck me that Bond wanting vengeance on Zao and going after him all feels a bit underheated. I genuinely wouldn't mind a more dramatic and slightly less stagey take on it. (Some really weird direction too: why do Bond and Graves start out so visibly angry with each other in that swordfight?)

    I've always found their interaction just before the sword fight a bit weird when you know the story. Graves (or indeed Moon) knows full well who Bond is, and Bond has no idea who Graves is (he might think he's connected to all this in some way, but at this point he's just a lead he has to follow). For some reason Toby Stephens seems sincerely confused when he asks Bond if they've met before and then flips between smarmy and angry, and Brosnan for some reason seems to be constantly glaring as if he's about to strangle the guy. He even says his 'Bond, James Bond' line in a bitter way. It'd make sense if Bond knew Graves was Moon, or that he was directly connected to him being betrayed, but that's not the case. Surely Bond would be more relaxed, trying to read this guy in his usual charming/confident way (or at least putting up that front), and Graves would the one on edge?

    But yeah, really weird scene. Everything about it just seems off, but not in an effective way.

    But the sword fight itself almost makes up for it.

    The sword fight itself is cool and the choreography looks like what you'd get in old Hollywood Swashbuckler films. It's a bit ridiculous with Bond and Graves running around the entire building and on the verge of killing each other but it's Bond so I can accept some silliness.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,524
    I must be the only person on the planet who despises this sword fight. To me it looks like two brats having temper tantrums. They flail about and I felt absolutely zero tension throughout the entire scene.

    On top of that, I’ll join @echo and @mtm in a little posse that doesn’t really “feel” the 007 theme. I love everything Barry had done and I consider him a musical master/genius….but I’m afraid I just am cold to this one piece of music…
  • edited March 10 Posts: 163
    They should have had Pierce lose some weight and done those post torture scenes, let him gain a bit and then shoot the rest of the scenes. Or do it the other way round.

    Or just not have him with his top off.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 10 Posts: 18,514
    They should have had Pierce lose some weight and done those post torture scenes, let him gain a bit and then shoot the rest of the scenes. Or do it the other way round.

    Or just not have him with his top off.

    They could have but then that's leaning into the kind of method acting and real physical commitment to the role that the likes of Robert De Niro brought to Raging Bull. It's not really the way Bond films are made though, at least traditionally.
  • True, but as someone has said above you do notice that he's not exactly looking like he's suffered apart from a raggedy t shirt.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,316
    True, but as someone has said above you do notice that he's not exactly looking like he's suffered apart from a raggedy t shirt.

    Yea, and how is that shirt that raggedy? It's like it's made from several layers. I was also thinking (and sorry to turn this into a DAD thread but it's something to talk about, isn't it :) ) that he's locked up for months in Korea and can't get away, then as soon as he's imprisoned on a British boat he's escaped within ten minutes :D
    Which would appear to show something about the difference in British efficiency to Korean!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 10 Posts: 18,514
    ^ I suppose you could say it's the "joys" of living in a police state as opposed to a relatively free one. Everything is in lockdown.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,559
    True, but as someone has said above you do notice that he's not exactly looking like he's suffered apart from a raggedy t shirt.

    Well, he did make it through the Madonna song. ;)
  • edited March 10 Posts: 2,950
    From Private Eye (found on Bond reddit):

    OrkIYrY.jpeg
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,995
    Revelator wrote: »
    From Private Eye (found on Bond reddit):

    OrkIYrY.jpeg

    Why does everything have to be political?
    LOL.....
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,393
    Come on, FROM RUSSIA WITH TRUMP is cute satire.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited March 11 Posts: 715
    Pretty obvious satire.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,393
    But not less true.
  • edited March 11 Posts: 4,425
    Is It Feasible for Amazon/MGM to Announce a Bond Release Date at CinemaCon on April 1st?

    With the Amazon/MGM set to present at CinemaCon on April 1, 2025, there’s been a lot of speculation about what they might unveil. Given the current status of the deal, could we realistically see Amazon announce a Bond release date at that time?

    Here's the context:
    1. The Joint Venture Status: We’re all waiting to see how quickly the JV can be finalized. Legal and contractual matters might take time, but if Amazon and MGM have already been preparing behind the scenes, they could expedite the process.
    2. Preliminary Development: For Amazon to announce a release date that soon, it would mean that preliminary development (possibly including a script, treatment, or even early casting) has already been in the works. Without that, an announcement would be premature.
    3. Marketing Strategy: Announcing a date early could be a major power move from Amazon, signaling confidence and showing that they’re ready to take control of the Bond franchise. Studios often announce dates years in advance to assert their stake in a major project, and it could help them attract talent and build momentum.
    4. Targeted Release Window: If an announcement were made, the most likely release window would be 2027 (possibly Fall/Winter).

    While it’s not impossible, an announcement in April 2025 would be highly aggressive and suggest that Amazon has already made significant behind-the-scenes progress, possibly with a script, director, and casting already in place. More likely, Amazon will tease "Bond Returns in 2027" but hold off on a firm date until later in the year or early 2026. If they do announce a date, it will likely be tentative and dependent on behind-the-scenes progress.

    Do you think it’s feasible for Amazon to announce a concrete Bond release date at CinemaCon this April, or is that just too soon given where the JV stands?
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