Skyfall - anyone missing OTT Bond?

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Comments

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,276
    actonsteve wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:

    Come on. You really think Eva Green, Giancarlo Giannini, Mads Mikkelsen, Olga Kurylenko, Mathieu Amalric, Naome Harris etc are in a "league of their own" compared to actors from earlier Bond-movies? Okay, that's your opinion. I can think of several actors who I think outshone every single one of them. Walken in AVTAK, Sean Bean in GE just to name a few. .
    If you don't realise the actors doubleoego listed as sterling in quality then you must give me name of your occulist.
    1) And these names he specifically mentioned were?
    2) Guess you didn't read the part where I wrote
    Zekidk wrote:
    The cast of SF, is probably one of the most talented ever for a Bond-movie.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    I haven't read this whole thread so my question may have been answered.
    Why do people want the same thing over and over? Change is good. Bond is a balancing act- Each film is trying to correct its predecessors.

    And no I don't miss the OTT Bond. My only qualm with Skyfall is that it didn't feel like a exciting adventure.
  • Skyfall is one of the very best Bond films. I don't miss the Moore/Brosnan films at all. It all got just too silly and childish.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I do not miss the OTT, escapist films one bit. Give me a destruction of Bond's childhood home over a space battle any day.
  • No. SF was a masterpiece. If the next few films from Craig are of the same level I will be very happy. There is no reason that those films can't be big epic lavish adventures with a foot firmly placed in reality. If OTT you mean ice palaces, invisible cars, and surfing waves then I can only hope that we don't ever see that again in a Bond film. SF has some of the most impressive set pieces in the series. The foot chase through the London underground was exciting and suspenseful. The climatic battle superbly orchestrated and dramatic. The enitre Shanghai sequence just stunning to look at and brillantly realised. Bond doing what he does best. I am baffled when I read that people don't find SF Bond like. Its probably for me the best Bond film there has been. There is nothing wrong with having a film that also deals with character. Makes it more interesting for the audience.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    No, OTT Bond movies are just quick cash in's when serious is not wanted anymore. I prefer my Bond films, gritty, dark and thrilling. Not silly, campy and stupid.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,276
    tqb wrote:
    I haven't read this whole thread so my question may have been answered.
    Why do people want the same thing over and over? Change is good. Bond is a balancing act- Each film is trying to correct its predecessors.
    Some things need no correcting. The Bond franchise have survived for 40 years with Bond being basically the same: A typical alpha male, who uses wits and charms and always comes out on top. That's has been a winning formula.

    There are many things they could change for each Bond movie. They changed a lot going from TMWTGG to TSWLM for example, but the character stayed the same.

    I guess some people like what they have turned James Bond in to: A guy who reports to his boss on the radio while on mission, taking instructions about how to deal with a bad guy. And who, when things go south, hides, stops shaving, starts drinking heavily and shoots like a 70 year old!

    I don't!

    Movie making is all about creativity but creativity should not infuse a change that takes away the persona of the character from how it was conceived.
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    Skyfall and realism in the same sentence? I don't think so ...Skyfall was anything but realistic. It was a joke. The story and villain were absurd and the whole movie was sloppy. Casino Royale was the real deal and makes skyfall look like thrash. I actually enjoyed QoS more than skyfall, and QoS was subpar too.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Zekidk wrote:
    tqb wrote:
    I haven't read this whole thread so my question may have been answered.
    Why do people want the same thing over and over? Change is good. Bond is a balancing act- Each film is trying to correct its predecessors.
    Some things need no correcting. The Bond franchise have survived for 40 years with Bond being basically the same: A typical alpha male, who uses wits and charms and always comes out on top. That's has been a winning formula.

    There are many things they could change for each Bond movie. They changed a lot going from TMWTGG to TSWLM for example, but the character stayed the same.

    I guess some people like what they have turned James Bond in to: A guy who reports to his boss on the radio while on mission, taking instructions about how to deal with a bad guy. And who, when things south, hides, stops shaving, starts drinking heavily and shoots like a 70 year old!

    I don't!

    Movie making is all about creativity but creativity should not infuse a change that takes away the persona of the character from how it was conceived.

    I basically agree with you. I also enjoy seeing EON playing with the formula every now and then, but like you I feel that 3 films of angsty, sullen Bond is now enough. However, at this moment in time you are not going to find many other takers for this point of view. You'll be dismissed as harking back to DAD or not 'getting' the new era.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    How was Craig's Bond "angsty" in Skyfall? Craig didn't sound nervous at all when he ordered the tube driver to "let him in". Ditto when he was in the tunnel and the train was approaching and when he first meets the baddie.This is probably the most relaxed we've seen Craig. M was the one who was angsty most of the time - and with good reason.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How was Craig's Bond "angsty" in Skyfall? M was the one who was angsty most of the time - and with good reason.

    Well, arguably when we see him moping around on the beach and looking miserable in the changing rooms at MI6. If not exactly angst ridden elsewhere in the fim, he's hardly exudes positivity.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How was Craig's Bond "angsty" in Skyfall? M was the one who was angsty most of the time - and with good reason.
    Well, arguably when we see him moping around on the beach and looking miserable in the changing rooms.  
    That was one small section of the film. Even after the one of the biggest moment's of grief for Craig's Bond he still manages to raise a smile.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How was Craig's Bond "angsty" in Skyfall? M was the one who was angsty most of the time - and with good reason.
    Well, arguably when we see him moping around on the beach and looking miserable in the changing rooms.  
    That was one small section of the film.

    Yes, but my point was that this is something that now arcs across all 3 films in the DC era. From after Vesper's death, through QoS to the first half of SF we have Bond in a state of self-absorbed, barely repressed anger. For some people this has put a bit of a dampener on proceedings. I know this is going to provoke howls of protest but frankly it reminds me of Bourne, except the story arc is actually less interesting. Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

  • Posts: 3,276
    In SF Bond basically loses. He loses in the PCS, he loses his aim, he loses the Bond girl, he loses his boss.

    I don't want James Bond to be a loser no more.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly. Even so a large aspect of the literary character was that he was reflective.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 176
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly.

    I agree. SF was the lightest I'd seen Craig's Bond.

    As for being emotionally stunted, I had that feeling from Dalton in TLD. He seemed to be a man who didn't really like his job at all. A man who was just burnted out. I never had that feeling from Craig.
  • Posts: 11,425
    marymoss wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly.

    I agree. SF was the lightest I'd seen Craig's Bond.

    As for being emotionally stunted, I had that feeling from Dalton in TLD. He seemed to be a man who didn't really like his job at all. A man who was just burnted out. I never had that feeling from Craig.

    Really? Bond's relationship with Kara in TLD is often cited as one of the most convincing and genuine in the entire series?
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly. Even so a large aspect of the literary character was that he was reflective.

    Perhaps this is just about whether you prioritise staying true to Fleming's Bond over staying true to the screen Bond that grew out of the literary character.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly. Even so a large aspect of the literary character was that he was reflective.

    Perhaps this is just about whether you prioritise staying true to Fleming's Bond over staying true to the screen Bond that grew out of the literary character.

    I think it's a mixture of the two that works best. Craig did it well in SF. While he strictly speaking wasn't experienced enough to be "burnt out" in CR you could tell killing affected him.

    Dalton did the Fleming part well too - especially in TLD

    I know this is going to be laughed at but there are also moments in DAD where (IMO) Brosnan seems every inch the burnt out fed up agent. I'm thinking of his scene with M in the underground tunnel in particular.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 176
    Getafix wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly.

    I agree. SF was the lightest I'd seen Craig's Bond.

    As for being emotionally stunted, I had that feeling from Dalton in TLD. He seemed to be a man who didn't really like his job at all. A man who was just burnted out. I never had that feeling from Craig.

    Really? Bond's relationship with Kara in TLD is often cited as one of the most convincing and genuine in the entire series?

    Oh, when he was with Kara he was great. However, I coudn't stand him before that. Maybe if this wasn't Dalton's first picture, I could understand it. However, it's his first film and he's all "If M fires me I'll be better for it." I just hated that line.

  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say Craig was at his most cheerful and "playful" in Skyfall. True he had his more serious moments but that's called drama.
    Getafix wrote:
    Bourne was on a journey to uncover his very identity whereas Bond increasingly resembles a self-pitying and emotionally stunted public school boy. Which is perhaps, how Fleming intended him to be seen.

    Hmm...yeah pretty much ;) Bond was a bit of an outsider in the books. I think he referred to the social climate around him as "alien" at one point though I may be remembering it incorrectly. Even so a large aspect of the literary character was that he was reflective.

    Perhaps this is just about whether you prioritise staying true to Fleming's Bond over staying true to the screen Bond that grew out of the literary character.

    I think it's a mixture of the two that works best. Craig did it well in SF. While he strictly speaking wasn't experienced enough to be "burnt out" in CR you could tell killing affected him.

    Dalton did the Fleming part well too - especially in TLD

    I know this is going to be laughed at but there are also moments in DAD where (IMO) Brosnan seems every inch the burnt out fed up agent. I'm thinking of his scene with M in the underground tunnel in particular.

    Yeah, I think it's good to mix and match. I'm still a fan of DC's Bond overall, but enjoyed his performances in CR and QoS more than SF. I know people on here think I'm just stirring for the hell of it, but right now I really feel like I must have gone to see a totally different film last weekend. I'd been looking forward to it for months and came out of the cinema just feeling SF was a total disappointment. Weak plot, strangely flat pacing and - this was my wife's observation - no one you actually like or care for in the entire film. The friends I've spoken to are not as down on it as we were but they're definitely not raving about it either.

    Any way, I've been here before, when GE came out and the press and many fans were claiming it was as good as Connery, I felt I must have been to see a different movie. I do think things change over time and frankly SF's reputation can only go down from it's currently (IMO) overhyped position. Now (as you know) it seems to be the fashion to slate Brozza. I don't mind, but I'd have been happier if people had been saying that stuff when his films came out, rather than years later. In contrast, Dalton's star just keeps on rising as more and more people seem to realise how good he was.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    GE is a good Bond movie
    Sf is a good Bond movie

    They are both well liked for a reason.

    You'd better get used to being in the minority. I have a strong feeling this film will go down as one of the most popular films in the series. Most people I've talked to have really liked it (even those that didnt 'love' it still enjoyed it). True as time passes the hype will fade but there is a lot in it's favour including Richard Deakins and Daniel Craig

    No one you liked in the entire film?

    I liked Craig's Bond, I liked Ralph Feinnes I liked M and I liked Albert Finney.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    My biggest surprise for the film was Finney's Kincade. I didn't know much about his character, and aside from a quick still I noticed, I wasn't expecting anything. I pretty much had the entirety of SF spoiled for me through many sources:
    The death of M, how Silva dies and where, the new M, Eve becoming Moneypenny, etc.

    But, Kincade - who he was, what he would do, etc. - were totally unbeknownst to me before the showing. Real nice surprise.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    GE is a good Bond movie
    Sf is a good Bond movie

    They are both well liked for a reason.

    You'd better get used to being in the minority. I have a strong feeling this film will go down as one of the most popular films in the series. Most people I've talked to have really liked it (even those that didnt 'love' it still enjoyed it). True as time passes the hype will fade but there is a lot in it's favour including Richard Deakins and Daniel Craig

    No one you liked in the entire film?

    I liked Craig's Bond, I liked Ralph Feinnes I liked M and I liked Albert Finney.

    Well said and all true. I thought the cast did an outstanding job in their roles. Not one single poor performance unlike the parade of them we got in the nineties and 2002.

  • Aye an' Finney had the best line in the film, "Welcome to Scotland!" I laughed...
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