Changes in Craig's Bond Characterization

edited December 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 14
Martin Campbell said that in his view of Casino Royale, Bond was fully formed at the end of the film after he earned his stripes throughout the movie. So in his mind, Bond in the three-piece suit and the Bond theme finally kicking in at the end signifies the completion of the early-career Bond character arc in the reboot.

Marc Forster's Quantum of Solace is still about whether M trusts Bond, thinking that he is out for revenge. But Bond is really looking for answers, according to his interviews before the film's release. Bond's character arc continues through Quantum as he comes to grips with Vesper's betrayal and sacrifice for him, when Bond tells Camille the dead don't care about vengeance and his choice to turn Yusef over to MI6 in lieu of executing the man. The similarities the scene in which Bond confronts Yusef in Russia and Bond's execution of Dryden at the beginning of Casino Royale, coupled with the gunbarrel at the end of Quantum could be read to signify the completion of Bond's character arc in which he earns his stripes and becomes more or less the Bond of the first twenty films.

Skyfall has a veteran Bond, after countless successful missions, beaten down, out of shape, and potentially past his prime. He must build himself back into what he once was in order to protect M and complete his mission successfully. This film could be viewed as a continuation of the reboot timeline or as a follow-up to Die Another Day in the original timeline, much like For Your Eyes Only followed Moonraker, though was tonally very different.

Did Craig approach his portrayal of Bond in Casino Royale as if it was a one-film reboot, or prequel, in which he became the traditional Bond at the end of the film? This would be closer to the literary Bond's mindset at the end of Casino Royale the novel. As in the film, Vesper had broken down his emotional armor. Bond found Vesper's suicide note, cried, and then rebuilt his armor to prevent another from getting under his skin like Vesper had. He then decided he would dedicate himself to pursuing the bosses of the spies, the ones who made the spies do the spying. Bond of the books says "the bitch is dead" and means it. Watching Casino Royale without following it up with Quantum of Solace, one could read Craig's performance to be the same as Bond of the books.

But in Quantum of Solace, Bond is shown to still be mourning Vesper. Was this the plan all along for the reboot, to have Bond go from hot-headed rookie agent and become the well-established double-oh of the original series at the end of the reboot series, after two or three films? Or did the change in directors after each film contribute to the changes in Bond's characterization and cause his character arc to become extended past the original plan?
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Comments

  • Posts: 14
    Bump
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Personally I think make up whatever time line or reboot theory you want to explain it all to yourself. I'm not bothered about timelines as they were never very important to Bond any way. The jump from OHMSS to DAF is nonsensical for example.

    Any way, I don't think they had QoS in their minds when they started making CR. They just felt they wanted to complete the arc. Plus I think Bourne made them feel they need multi-film story arcs to tie things together.

    SF feels like the reboot of the reboot to me. Little or no relation to the first 2 Craig movies. CR and QoS were fresh, carried the heritage lightly and were forward looking. SF is a bit stodgy and carries the series baggage more heavily. In a sense it 'feels' more like the Brosnan era with nods to the past, self-consciously OTT plot and villains etc. Although EON obviously just see it as a continuation of the 'new' timeline there is a big tonal and narrative gap between QoS and SF. We've gone from rooky to burnt out in one step.
  • That's a good point @Getafix. We went from rookie to older, burnt out agent.

    Anyway, I think Craig played Bond more light hearted in SF and it was his best performance. He was much better than in his first two imo. I think he showed that he's better as more of an all rounder Bond, leave the dark Bond to Dalton.
  • Posts: 122
    E.on just make it up as they go along craigs going to be a young buck again in the next one you watch lol
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited December 2012 Posts: 4,423
    We should have a film prior to Skyfall, explaining the transition from QoS rookie Bond, to "top of his game" Bond, and the veteran Bond we saw in SF... Damn you MGM bankruptcy!
  • Posts: 122
    royale65 wrote:
    We should have a film prior to Skyfall, explaining the transition from QoS rookie Bond, to "top of his game" Bond, and the veteran Bond we saw in SF... Damn you MGM bankruptcy!

    just stick , GE, TND, TWINE, between Qos and SF sorted
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote:
    Although EON obviously just see it as a continuation of the 'new' timeline there is a big tonal and narrative gap between QoS and SF. We've gone from rooky to burnt out in one step.

    Tis true. When Mallory said the line, 'It's a young man's game' I was thinking, 'Hell, where will they go next?'.
  • Posts: 11,425
    DC is looking a bit passed it as well IMO. They should film the next two back to back and then recast in 2014.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2012 Posts: 11,139
    This is looking passed it???

    Daniel-Craig-wenn4149450-500x750.jpg


    Daniel+Craig+2012+BAFTA+Los+Angeles+Britannia+pKcPq0uBtrKl.jpg


    I don't think so.
  • It is noticeable that in the Craig movies so far Bond has been going on an arc. CR sets out this younger more reckless look at the character, Bond is presented as man who thinks more with his heart than his head. It’s arguable whether he is the ‘man we know and love’ at the end of Cr or not. Personally I think that guy is long gone, Craig’s bond is supposed to be far from the finished article. I believe this will be a thread that runs through all his films and was one of the reasons why the Brosnan movies are so easy to lambast.
    Brosnan’s Bond was the guy from all those previous movies, I’ve seen Connery and Moore etc all escape from similar scrapes, I’m certain that Brosnan’s Bond has it covered regardless how much emotional strain the producers throw at him. For this reason the reboot was essential as Bond needed his status as ‘mi6’s finest’ stripped away from him so the mortal peril and dangerousness could be reintroduced to the character. There was a lot of talk around the time QOS came out that Bond was still a little rough around the edges and the event of CR should have forged him into the Bond of old, but it would be have been foolhardy to slip back into formula after rejuivativing it all in CR.
    SF instead places him at a very different point of his career and a very interesting one at that, he’s slightly more seasoned than we’re used to see him but the events of the movie break him down and he has to force himself up. All three films works together to build up a rather intriguing characterisation, which is far more in-depth than simply saying that Dalton was the ‘angry Bond’, Moore was the ’funny Bond’, Craig has actually been given an arc. Therefore he has been allowed to explore many facades of the character, we’re seen him grow from a young reckless agent to an older more sluggish man, I’m just excited to see where they take him next.

  • Posts: 2,081
    ...Craig has actually been given an arc. Therefore he has been allowed to explore many facades of the character, we’re seen him grow from a young reckless agent to an older more sluggish man, I’m just excited to see where they take him next.

    Yes.
    And so am I.

  • Posts: 14
    Craig only looked too old in Skyfall because of his terrible haircut. He looked too much like ex-military private security with his short hair and his earpieces that are a few generations behind the one he used in CR. Standing out in a crowd because you look too ex-military isn't a good way to go unnoticed as a spy.

    If his hair was the length it was in QOS or in The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, he would look younger and far better for a gentleman spy.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Simple: Craigs bond has changed mainly as Skyfall is not a contiuation of The CR/QOS but a continuation of DAD- the DB5 with machine gun (obviously belongs from Goldfinger and the line of the grenade pen is a nod to Goldeneye)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    No it's not.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    then explain how The DB5 (that he won in Casino Royale) now has an ejector seat and machine guns?
  • Posts: 15
    I just assume that it's been four years in fictional time because it's been that long since the last Bond entry thanks to the bankruptcy issues.

    Some may point to the grey in his stubble but people lose their hair and get grey in their 20's, so ...

    I'm not too worried about connecting the gadgets in the car with older entries. It was a reboot and, again, I'd say it's been four years.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 161
    Anyway, I think Craig played Bond more light hearted in SF and it was his best performance. He was much better than in his first two imo. I think he showed that he's better as more of an all rounder Bond, leave the dark Bond to Dalton.

    B.S Craig is the best Dark Bond. Casino Royale and QoS are two of darkest Bond's. Craig three performances are excellent and a actor who gets a Bafta nod for best actor for Bond surely must be doing something right.
  • lahaine wrote:
    Anyway, I think Craig played Bond more light hearted in SF and it was his best performance. He was much better than in his first two imo. I think he showed that he's better as more of an all rounder Bond, leave the dark Bond to Dalton.

    B.S Craig is the best Dark Bond. Casino Royale and QoS are two of darkest Bond's. Craig three performances are excellent and a actor who gets a Bafta nod for best actor for Bond surely must be doing something right.

    Wow you really can't stand the fact that people have opinions on Craig that are different than yours, can you?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2012 Posts: 11,139
    002 wrote:
    then explain how The DB5 (that he won in Casino Royale) now has an ejector seat and machine guns?

    Do you really need me to explain that to you?

    Have you heard of a show called, 'pimp my ride'? If so, give it a little thought and imagination and hopefully you should get a plausible answer.

    Maybe you can explain to me, how, if SF is supposed to be a continuation of the timeline that last ended with DAD, why is it that in SF Bond is only being introduced to Moneypenny for the first time?
  • I think that part of the problem is with people's expectations of always having "closure" at the end of a film, and the fact that we aren't used to Bond being a three-dimensional character.

    At the time of CR it was clearly intended that Bond was transitioning from rough and inexperienced to "the Bond we love" by the end of the film. But then with QoS people started saying oh, the reboot wasn't complete - NOW he's the Bond we love! But then with SF people say okay, NOW the reboot is complete! I understand this but don't agree with it.

    I think that the "reboot" part of the Craig era ended with CR. I find with QoS that the character is evolving a bit but he's already much more like the Bond we know - it's just his mood at this time is different due to his not having had time to mourn the loss of his relationship with Vesper. Any concerns about the character not being "fully formed" are coming from M. With SF Bond is clearly a more seasoned, experienced agent but again him getting his "mojo back" is more situational than anything.

    So what we see are situations changing how Bond is acting, and the fact that the character continues to evolve. This is different from what we've seen in the past (short of LTK and DAD) so it's a bit different from what we're used to. But I think that 20 years from now when we watch the Craig films we'll appreciate that the character changing gives the films more flavour.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 1,310
    doubleoego wrote:
    002 wrote:
    then explain how The DB5 (that he won in Casino Royale) now has an ejector seat and machine guns?

    Do you really need me to explain that to you?

    Have you heard of a show called, 'pimp my ride'? If so, give it a little thought and imagination and hopefully you should get a plausible answer.

    Maybe you can explain to me, how, if SF is supposed to be a continuation of the timeline that last ended with DAD, why is it that in SF Bond is only being introduced to Moneypenny for the first time?
    Exactly. This also accounts for Craig's reaction when the car is blown up - he's obviously put a lot of work customizing that Aston, and seeing it destroyed got to him.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    doubleoego wrote:
    002 wrote:
    then explain how The DB5 (that he won in Casino Royale) now has an ejector seat and machine guns?

    Do you really need me to explain that to you?

    Have you heard of a show called, 'pimp my ride'? If so, give it a little thought and imagination and hopefully you should get a plausible answer.

    Maybe you can explain to me, how, if SF is supposed to be a continuation of the timeline that last ended with DAD, why is it that in SF Bond is only being introduced to Moneypenny for the first time?

    im sorry i dont watch shows like Pimp my ride because i have better taste...

    Well lets see maybe she could be the original moneypenny's daughter or neice perhaps i mean lets face it Q mentions that they dont make the grendade pens anymore (which is clearly a nod to Goldeneye) and he says he is the new quatermaster (that means that he is taking over from John Cleese's Q or maybe the position was vacaunt)

    this usually suits the theroy of that 007 and James Bond is a codename

    another theroy (and one that i want to dismiss) is that segments from the 007 Legends (and hopefully not Goldeneye Reloaded) game(s) (LTK, GF, DAD, OHMSS and MR) are Canon which i hope not as they are completely abysmal

    another theroy is that James Bond is a timelord but i wont get into that
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 204
    I always thought Bond films don't have a timeline or particularly established continuity, they kind of exist in their own vacuum, with similar elements but not tied particularly to the film preceeding or succeeding them except for QoS which is a direct continuation of CR.

    To that end I have always viewed them much like the Legend of Zelda games which have consistent elements but each seem to exist as separate entities in and of themselves?

    Slightly different to Dr. Who who say 'regenerates' and as such continuity is established despite each doctor having his own personality and idiosyncracies, if that makes sense?

    With regards to the DB5 in SF, I heard that it was intended to be the same one he won in CR, and whilst this was not made apparent in the movie, that was what the writers had been trying to achieve. To that end it would have established a three-film continuity arc. Regarding the ejector seat, this merely was a nod I feel to earlier films and the how and why it was in the car is up for debate. For example we know the previous Q (Desmond Llewellyn) built it into the car, so probably wouldn't have been him who built it into the DB5 that Bond won from the guy in CR...

    However, there is in fact a deleted scene from The World is Not Enough in which Pierce is seen driving a DB5 up to the gates of Electra King's father's funeral. Therefore are we expected to believe this is indeed the same vehicle?

    As such I must conclude that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth and that James Bond must in fact be a timelord.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The appearance of the DB5 is irrelevant, it's not the one from GF or the one from TND, it's probably not even the one from CR although |I'd like to think it is.

    It's there because it's the 50th and they wanted a nod to the history plain and simple and it's only wishful thinking fan boys who would try and tie it into the previous timeline. This is Craig Bond sometime on from the CR & QOS, the lines of a dialogue from Q don't support anything and they are just an in joke and a wink to the audience, why do some of you have such a hard time grasping this?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2012 Posts: 11,139
    002 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    002 wrote:
    then explain how The DB5 (that he won in Casino Royale) now has an ejector seat and machine guns?

    Do you really need me to explain that to you?

    Have you heard of a show called, 'pimp my ride'? If so, give it a little thought and imagination and hopefully you should get a plausible answer.

    Maybe you can explain to me, how, if SF is supposed to be a continuation of the timeline that last ended with DAD, why is it that in SF Bond is only being introduced to Moneypenny for the first time?

    im sorry i dont watch shows like Pimp my ride because i have better taste...

    I didn't ask you if you watched it, I asked if you had heard of it and clearly you have if you feel such a show is beneath you.
    Well lets see maybe she could be the original moneypenny's daughter or neice perhaps i mean lets face it Q mentions that they dont make the grendade pens anymore (which is clearly a nod to Goldeneye) and he says he is the new quatermaster (that means that he is taking over from John Cleese's Q or maybe the position was vacaunt)

    None of this proves that SF picks up from where DAD left us. The new Q is simply that, a new Q and the reference to exploding pens is a throwaway comment as a nod to past films but also as a joke to indicate that the unseen history if Craig's timeline also had exploding pens. This really isn't and shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp. As for your theory on Monepenny, that's just ridiculous. Harris is playing the same character Maxwell, Bliss and Bond played. Fact.
    this usually suits the theroy of that 007 and James Bond is a codename

    A stupid theory which holds noerit what so ever.
    another theroy (and one that i want to dismiss) is that segments from the 007 Legends (and hopefully not Goldeneye Reloaded) game(s) (LTK, GF, DAD, OHMSS and MR) are Canon which i hope not as they are completely abysmal

    another theroy is that James Bond is a timelord but i wont get into that

    Lol no.
  • bond50bond50 Banned
    edited December 2012 Posts: 42
    Mod edit: insults towards Craig and the folks who both run and visit this website from our soon to be former member @bond50.
  • 002002
    edited December 2012 Posts: 581
    None of this proves that SF picks up from where DAD left us. The new Q is simply that, a new Q and the reference to exploding pens is a throwaway comment as a nod to past films but also as a joke to indicate that the unseen history if Craig's timeline also had exploding pens. This really isn't and shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp. As for your theory on Monepenny, that's just ridiculous. Harris is playing the same character Maxwell, Bliss and Bond played. Fact.
    this usually suits the theroy of that 007 and James Bond is a codename

    A stupid theory which holds noerit what so ever.
    another theroy (and one that i want to dismiss) is that segments from the 007 Legends (and hopefully not Goldeneye Reloaded) game(s) (LTK, GF, DAD, OHMSS and MR) are Canon which i hope not as they are completely abysmal

    another theroy is that James Bond is a timelord but i wont get into that

    Lol no.

    [/quote]

    because CR and QOS take place earlier in Bond's Carrer and obviously this story is set a while after those two adventures and considering that Craig went from newbie agent in CR to Veteran Agent in SF doesnt add up only 3 adventures and he's compeltely changed..besides Skyfall seems to be more written for Brosnan's Bond than Craig's Bond

    Q says "im your new quatermaster" now if you look back Q Branch is mentioned in QOS so there must have been a Q before Skyfall otherwise it doesnt add up and the throwaway line to the exploding pen means that Q Branch must have made them in the past and that means that Desmond's Q did exist in the past

  • edited December 2012 Posts: 15,131
    @002-And according to your theory(ies), Felix Leiter is a codename too?
    It is noticeable that in the Craig movies so far Bond has been going on an arc. CR sets out this younger more reckless look at the character, Bond is presented as man who thinks more with his heart than his head. It’s arguable whether he is the ‘man we know and love’ at the end of Cr or not. Personally I think that guy is long gone, Craig’s bond is supposed to be far from the finished article. I believe this will be a thread that runs through all his films and was one of the reasons why the Brosnan movies are so easy to lambast.
    Brosnan’s Bond was the guy from all those previous movies, I’ve seen Connery and Moore etc all escape from similar scrapes, I’m certain that Brosnan’s Bond has it covered regardless how much emotional strain the producers throw at him. For this reason the reboot was essential as Bond needed his status as ‘mi6’s finest’ stripped away from him so the mortal peril and dangerousness could be reintroduced to the character. There was a lot of talk around the time QOS came out that Bond was still a little rough around the edges and the event of CR should have forged him into the Bond of old, but it would be have been foolhardy to slip back into formula after rejuivativing it all in CR.
    SF instead places him at a very different point of his career and a very interesting one at that, he’s slightly more seasoned than we’re used to see him but the events of the movie break him down and he has to force himself up. All three films works together to build up a rather intriguing characterisation, which is far more in-depth than simply saying that Dalton was the ‘angry Bond’, Moore was the ’funny Bond’, Craig has actually been given an arc. Therefore he has been allowed to explore many facades of the character, we’re seen him grow from a young reckless agent to an older more sluggish man, I’m just excited to see where they take him next.

    Excellent analysis.The main difference between SF and the previous two Craig films is that in SF Bond IS the Bond we know, then he loses his identity, so to speak, he falls from grace and has to rebuild himself.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Ludovico wrote:
    @002-And according to your theory(ies), Felix Leiter is a codename too?

    well for Felix it felt more like a recast but you cant help but James Bond's Personality changes during every incarnation i mean look at Moore to Dalton
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 15,131
    002 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    @002-And according to your theory(ies), Felix Leiter is a codename too?

    well for Felix it felt more like a recast but you cant help but James Bond's Personality changes during every incarnation i mean look at Moore to Dalton

    Yes, but this has been explained: new actors new approaches. Haven't you notice they all grieve the same woman too?
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