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I find this kind of discussion very immature and it shows that folks still want to talk about Brosnan, which means he must have had a bigger impression than any really wants to admit. :-)) O:-) ;)
What can I say, garbage stinks no matter how much you spray it with air freshener and wherever you put it.
Now, as far as the Bond/Vesper relationship goes: I think it was very convincing. And I must say, the shot of Craig's furious breathing turning into a saddening stare is about as convincing as it gets.
I have no problem with the Lazenby/Rigg relationship from '69, seems a little constricted at times but by the end you realize that they can make it as a wedded couple. Craig and Lynd, as said before worked quite well, pity she had to die, but we got the revenge factor for QOS, something that didn't quite appear with Connery in Diamonds after the end of OHMSS. Different Bond actors in '69 and '71 but the revenge element for the slaying of a loved one just never materialized. Said that before
What about Brosnan and Isobella Scrupo in Goldeneye that was a good chemestary
on the topic at hand... i felt the sudden switch from annoyed to loving from Vesper was a bit much - but this goes along with the feeling that I don't think she truly loved loved Bond- it was an act to get the money and the passcode... i believe she did love him to a degree, and that she was emotionally conflicted, and felt bad for what she had done in setting him up (even at the end).. but her heart belonged to Yusef..... but i bought into the relationship - it felt real, not forced.
My point being that was does Brosnan have to do with the chemistry between Craig & Green. Nothing whatsoever and any comparison is a moot argument as he, Brosnan, still has NO part whatsoever in the lacking chemistry between Green & Craig.
I do not blame them, they lacked a certain ingredient, namely some decent scripting. Somehow it is easier to write action than convincing dialogue.
Exactly. Its like I said on the 1st page, some of us liked brosnan and don't want people pointlessly bashing him on every thread. Its stupid really, somebody critiscises craig and evas relationship and said they have no chemistry, craig fans response "brosnan was worse". Its pathetic.
Exactly my thoughts as well. It seemed rather sudden that he is completely dis-armed by Vesper while recovering in Lake Como. I think part of the problem is the torture scene was treated poorly as well. Where as the book elaborates more clearly on the transformation Bond has undergone as a result of the torture, the movie makes for a wise-cracking, sadomasichist moment, that shows nothing of Bond's pain and being broken down. Quite the contrary actually, Bond seems to enjoy the torture in the movie. But yet, while recovering, he goes into this trite monologue of how he is stripped of his armour; all that's left of him is hers...how has he possibly changed? The torture seem didn't give the impression that he was a changed man, but we are supposed to believe he has, and he then goes against character and gives his heart and soul to this woman? I didn't buy it.
Do you mean in age - Scorupco was about 25 when Goldeneye was released.
I heartedly agree with much of this.
The real strength of the Vesper character was that she was very smart, and in that regard really gave Bond a run for his money. Their dialogue early on is witty and zingy and Vesper plays Bond at his own game a number of times in the early part of her appearance. He buys her a dress to wear so she tells him his tuxedo isn't up to snuff and gets him another and later she defies him and wears another dress to the casino game (Daniel's eyes are terrific in this scene; the way they track her as she enters the room). The real strength of the character was her vulnerability as the violence of the entire film really affects her, in this regard Vesper is very real. She's just a burecraeut who got caught up in Bond's dirty world after all.
As for the chemistry between Craig and Green. I think it was most definitely there, the train scene sizzles between the pair and is by far the best scene of the movie.
I have to agree that the 'little finger' line does make my eyes-roll and I can see why it may seem forced. But Craig saves it with his "Whatever is left of me" moment; that I always find strikes a cord as its Bond finally letting his armour down after 21 films and showing someone whatever there is left of him. Maybe nothing needed saying as their relationship seemed relatively cemented at that point, but I feel that Campbell et al probably felt that a 'moment' was required to show that they had really fallen for each other; it's undeniable that a more subtle method would have worked better but the scene hardly detracts from the entire movie and most definitely dosen't sink the ship.
I thought it came a bit out of nowhere. Although I prefer the film to the book, the book had the advantage of being able to sell you on it more. The film has to show us everything the book described Bond feeling, and I don't think they had enough time for that thanks to the first half. Maybe they should've cut down a bit on the 1st half which isn't like the book at all and doesn't even feature Vesper.
They had chemistry but after rewatching the film a few times over the last year I've disliked the Bond/Vesper relationship more and more.
It did seem a bit rushed and some of the dialouge is just terrible.
I was re-reading CR the other week and reflected on just how brilliantly written the third part of the novel is. The arguments, the raw emotion, the distance between her and Bond, the secrecy, the bitterness, the sex, the tears, and how the death scene was even more potent and tragic given Bond's plan to marry her.
There's a split second in the film when he says "See you back here in half an hour", Vesper pauses, kisses him, and walks off. It captures the above brilliantly, I just wish it was longer. If they had developed the phone "text snooping" further, it would have made it perfect.
Anyone see what I mean?
Daniel and Eva even said that they're quite fond of each other. Eva's called Daniel extremely sexy on multiple occasions, and Daniel continuously says Eva is just an amazing actress. I know Eva also said it was heartbreaking for her to not have any scenes with Daniel in The Golden Compass.
Overall, I just can't get enough of Bond/Vesper <3
No. She just seems more mature and worldly than say, Richards or Berry.
Top bloke that bond fellow.
I thought she was an excellent foil for Bond and I totally saw the chemistry up on screen.
I always thought the relationship was great and believable, and the actors had great chemistry. I'm surprised that some people think Bond just all of a sudden fell for her while recovering - I thought she got his full attention immediately when they first met on the train and it just grew from there. I also never got the impression that she "loathed" him to begin with.
I assume she actually cared about the guy, and understood that he was in love with her and completely vulnerable, and yet she also knew she was betraying him and that trust. (And also knew she didn't have a choice, anyway, since if she hadn't agreed to the betrayal, he'd have been killed.) I assume all that would have overwhelmed any normal person, so I don't think it was surprising at all that she had a hard time keeping her emotions in check, and the line wasn't ridiculous to me in the circumstances.
Yes.
Shows nothing of his pain? He seems to enjoy it? The only explanation I can think of is we've seen a different movie.
Though, of course, despite those 20 movies before it, the Bond in CR is a new 00 agent, just recently promoted to the 00 status, and hasn't had that much soul destroying work behind him, yet. What was left of him at that point was a lot more than at any point thereafter.
Also, at that point in his life and career it might indeed have been possible for him to say and do what many find not convincing because "he'd never do that". Maybe not later, but then he might have.
Well said, and I think that Eva Green's / Vesper's confidence is as big an issue as her being smart. As other's have said, she was a good match for Bond.
The key to Vesper is she is an enigma. She is a riddle. But due to Greens very strong acting you can see that despite herself she is falling for him. She fights against it for a long while but the look of love she gives him when he is recovering from having his bollocks beating is gorgeous.
It truly is a very romantic film.
As for those who didnt feel anything when she died. Well, it gets me every time. The look of anguish when Bond is cradling her soaked body is heartrending.
I do love the scene between the two early on in the car. She's slightly smug playing hard to get and he's lapping it up.
With CR, it was all big and dramatic and although it was still emotional, I saw it coming. In OHMSS, it's much more low key but it sort of comes out of nowhere and I think the shock helps to make it more emotional.
Blofeld drives up, Brunt sprays the car with bullets, Bond gets in ready to go after him then he slowly turns, you start to think the worst and sure enough, she's dead. I think the silence there really helps, then the cop pulls up, Bond explains she's having a rest and starts crying as the score finally kicks in.
And M's was tragically comical.
Vesper death meant more cause when you have a top actor in Craig shown all the emotion of a man's heart been broken makes all the difference. Sadly Rigg didn't have a top actor opposite her although the scene does pack a punch cause Rigg made her a loveable character.