Your view on the Recurring characters created for Brosnan's Era

edited August 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 31
In the Pierce Brosnan era of Bond movies we saw many characters created for the films . And not just Bond Girls and Villians , but recurring characters. We saw a new "M", and this does count as an entirely new character . We were introduced to Jack Wade , who some say was created to fill the gap left by Feilix Leiter. We then met Q's assistant "R" , Who became our new QuarterMaster in DAD. We also had Charles Robinson. And of course my personal favourite Valentin Zukovsky. What's your view on these characters ? What impact did they have for you ? What did you think of the actors who portrayed them.Share your opinions and memories.
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Comments

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I love Zukovsky as well, and the way they developed his relationship with Bond.
  • I share in the Zukovsky/Coltrane love, the best recurring character for me (not counting Leiter) since J.W Pepper.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,281
    Add me to the growing Zukovsky Fan Club too - surely the best recurring character outside of the old crew in the Brosnan era movies. I especially like how it is he that basically saves Bond's life near the end of TWINE and his knowing wink at a relieved Brosnan sitting in the torture chair. The rest you mention - R, Jack Wade and Charles Robinson all pale in comparison with Zukovsky are are merely functional story-advancing cyphers and little more.
  • Posts: 31
    The first Bond movie I watched was TND , so I would have liked to know how people reacted to Judi Dench's casting as "M" . And how the audiences grew to like her , because I don't know anyone who disliked Dench in the role.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    007GAMER wrote:
    The first Bond movie I watched was TND , so I would have liked to know how people reacted to Judi Dench's casting as "M" . And how the audiences grew to like her , because I don't know anyone who disliked Dench in the role.

    Well, there are people who do dislike Dench if you can believe that. They usually fall under the "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" category. They are too traditional and think M should never be anything but a man as in the Fleming books. The series has to remain forward thinking and adjust to the times to a certain degree if it wishes to remain relevant and successful. There are many successful women out there who've earned the right to be a boss. Some people just don't get that.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    007GAMER wrote:
    The first Bond movie I watched was TND , so I would have liked to know how people reacted to Judi Dench's casting as "M" . And how the audiences grew to like her , because I don't know anyone who disliked Dench in the role.

    Well, there are people who do dislike Dench if you can believe that. They usually fall under the "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" category. They are too traditional and think M should never be anything but a man as in the Fleming books. The series has to remain forward thinking and adjust to the times to a certain degree if it wishes to remain relevant and successful. There are many successful women out there who've earned the right to be a boss. Some people just don't get that.

    Yes, there's always the oddballs everywhere you care to go.
  • Posts: 367
    I loved Zukovsky in GE and then.....Purvis & Wade got hold of him.
  • I liked Dench's M (during Brosnans run anyway), Sam Bond's moneypenny and Cleese's Q.

    Colin Salmone did a good job with what he was given and I think he's better than Kinnear but I prefer Michael Kitchen's Tanner to Robinson. He was great in GE.

    Jack Wade was alright but I'm not sure why they didn't just bring back Lieter and Zukofsky was brilliant. Maybe my favourite recurring character in the whole series.
    They usually fall under the "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" category.

    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    Yeah there are some sexists who don't like her just because she's a woman but don't paint us all with the same brush please.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Kananga wrote:
    I loved Zukovsky in GE and then.....Purvis & Wade got hold of him.

    He was still good in TWINE, though he died. My favorite line in that film is "I'm looking for a submarine. It's big and black, and the driver is a very good friend of mine."

    Really, other than Zukovsky, all of the recurring characters in the Brosnan films were created to fill a role from a previous film. Dench took over as M, because the Bernard Lee/Robert Brown M's (if they weren't the same character, which I choose to think they weren't) had retired or died, so they bring in Dench's M to replace them. Felix Leiter (presumably, after that wound) retires from the CIA/DEA and Jack Wade replaces him. Bill Tanner wasn't there for some reason, so temporarily Charles Robinson replaces him (then even more temporarily works alongside him in TWINE). R was Q's replacement (a very obvious one). Technically Zukovsky is a replacement for General Gogol, as both are sympathetic (ex) Soviets. You could even say Jinx and her boss (Michael Madsen) were replacements for Wade.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Zukovsky was my favourite "new" character from the Brosnan era. Even when Purvis and Wade rewrote him in TWINE I always thought Coltrane managed to pull it off. Wade was a poor (very poor) man's Leiter.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Zukovsky is one of my favorite characters in the entire history of Bond films - Coltrane was simply magnificent. Love him and wish he had one more film, although his exit was beautifully done in TWINE. By far my favorite.

    I also liked Charles Robinson, but I never really liked Jack Wade.
    I didn't care of Cleese's R/Q even though I like him very much outside of Bond films.

    I didn't think we were counting Dench's M - if we are then she gets my #1 favorite vote, with Zukovsky 2nd.
  • I liked Dench's M (during Brosnans run anyway), Sam Bond's moneypenny and Cleese's Q.

    Colin Salmone did a good job with what he was given and I think he's better than Kinnear but I prefer Michael Kitchen's Tanner to Robinson. He was great in GE.

    Jack Wade was alright but I'm not sure why they didn't just bring back Lieter and Zukofsky was brilliant. Maybe my favourite recurring character in the whole series.
    They usually fall under the "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" category.

    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    Yeah there are some sexists who don't like her just because she's a woman but don't paint us all with the same brush please.


    Now now, I said usually and not all. You took it personally, why you would I don't get because you should know me better than that, you didn't properly read what I said because it's there as it was when I wrote it. Your points are different ones and reasonable as well.

    My favorite Zukovsky lines in TWINE are calling Mr. Bullion a "gold plated buffoon", wanting to congratulate his security when thinks he found Dr. Jones alone in his office dressed as she was, and "the insurance company is never going to believe this" as the four good walls he thought he had left came crashing down. I still double over in laughter just thinking about it let alone seeing it. As I've often said, including the above, one of the few saving graces that make TWINE worth a watch every now and again.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Coltrane / Zukovsky, was also one of my favorite new characters that got introduced for the Brosnan tenure, but there were one or two abominations along the way such as Bullion, Mr Kil, Boris Grishenko and even Xenia Onatopp. One of the most memorable was Vincent Schiavelli's Dr Kaufman, and those few minutes spent talking with Bond in Hamburg, live long in the memory. One of my favorite scenes that year, from an otherwise, disappointing release. I think Dench's M worked well with Brosnan, and on a sad note, it was also the last time we saw Llewelyn as Q. Samantha Bond's Moneypenny was also disappointing, I never really took to her, and that virtual reality game at the end of Die Another Day when Cleese's R interrupts, was almost embarrassing
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Obviously not a new creation but Michael Kitchen was really inspired casting for Tanner--one of the few times he has felt like Bond's peer in the series.
  • Posts: 2,402
    My ranking of Brosnan's recurring characters:

    1: Dench's M
    2: Zukovsky
    3: Kitchen's Tanner
    4: Robinson

    5: Jack Wade






    6: Cleese's R/Q (horrible).
  • Posts: 31
    I think a lot more could have been done with Jack Wade , I enjoyed Joe Don Baker in GE . But dissapointed by the role he had in TND . His character had potential. As for Bond's Moneypenny , I loved her in GE . And TND to a certain extent , she went downhill from there. I was left to laugh on the floor at Cleese's "R". Though , I enjoyed TWINE. And I was on the floor once more when he became Q in DAD , because I only took the movie seriously up to point where Jinx jumps off that cliff in cuba.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Coltrane / Zukovsky, was also one of my favorite new characters that got introduced for the Brosnan tenure, but there were one or two abominations along the way such as Bullion, Mr Kil, Boris Grishenko and even Xenia Onatopp. One of the most memorable was Vincent Schiavelli's Dr Kaufman, and those few minutes spent talking with Bond in Hamburg, live long in the memory. One of my favorite scenes that year, from an otherwise, disappointing release. I think Dench's M worked well with Brosnan, and on a sad note, it was also the last time we saw Llewelyn as Q. Samantha Bond's Moneypenny was also disappointing, I never really took to her, and that virtual reality game at the end of Die Another Day when Cleese's R interrupts, was almost embarrassing

    Not almost embarrassing, a complete and utter embarrassment, which nearly destroyed the character.
  • Posts: 169
    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    I think a lot of that overexposure had to do with Dench becoming a bigger international star as the series progressed. Although it wasn't literally his only role, Bernard Lee was not known for anything other than playing M to the vast majority of Bond movie fans. Therefore, a few brief scenes with him was all that was expected or demanded. But with Dench becoming so renowned I think the producers decided to use that star power to perhaps expand the viewership and bring in Dench fans who weren't necessarily Bond fans as well.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    I think a lot of that overexposure had to do with Dench becoming a bigger international star as the series progressed. Although it wasn't literally his only role, Bernard Lee was not known for anything other than playing M to the vast majority of Bond movie fans. Therefore, a few brief scenes with him was all that was expected or demanded. But with Dench becoming so renowned I think the producers decided to use that star power to perhaps expand the viewership and bring in Dench fans who weren't necessarily Bond fans as well.

    Agreed. And since Ralph Fiennes is a far more famous actor than Bernard Lee, I think his M will be featured more too, albeit in a different way than Dench's.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    What can you say? An average set of characters but Zukovsky was great.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    I think a lot of that overexposure had to do with Dench becoming a bigger international star as the series progressed. Although it wasn't literally his only role, Bernard Lee was not known for anything other than playing M to the vast majority of Bond movie fans. Therefore, a few brief scenes with him was all that was expected or demanded. But with Dench becoming so renowned I think the producers decided to use that star power to perhaps expand the viewership and bring in Dench fans who weren't necessarily Bond fans as well.

    That's quite true although it had never really occurred to me before that that was the reason for M's (Judi Dench's) expanded role in some of the Bond films.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Ludovico wrote:
    Coltrane / Zukovsky, was also one of my favorite new characters that got introduced for the Brosnan tenure, but there were one or two abominations along the way such as Bullion, Mr Kil, Boris Grishenko and even Xenia Onatopp. One of the most memorable was Vincent Schiavelli's Dr Kaufman, and those few minutes spent talking with Bond in Hamburg, live long in the memory. One of my favorite scenes that year, from an otherwise, disappointing release. I think Dench's M worked well with Brosnan, and on a sad note, it was also the last time we saw Llewelyn as Q. Samantha Bond's Moneypenny was also disappointing, I never really took to her, and that virtual reality game at the end of Die Another Day when Cleese's R interrupts, was almost embarrassing

    Not almost embarrassing, a complete and utter embarrassment, which nearly destroyed the character.

    I completely agree and then some. I don't fault Samantha Bond for this, it was her job to be a professional actress and say these embarrassing lines. She had good chemistry with Brosnan, you could tell they liked each other and enjoyed working together. All the screenwriters and even EON for approving these lines are wholly to blame for making Moneypenny unrecognizable. My poor Penny became "Smuttypenny", issuing lines completely inappropriate for the established character and at the end something straight out of a bad porn film. Caroline Bliss was a terrible Moneypenny, but I can at least say her lines were dignified and appropriate. Other than Llewellyn, who was obviously just barely hanging in there, both the M and Moneypenny characters underwent some major overhauls and it didn't work for everyone.






  • Posts: 5,634
    Don't forget the "I know exactly where to put that" when Brosnan brings her a gift in The World Is Not Enough - then throws it in the trash

    I thought (Samanatha) Bond was a decent Moneypenny. A vast improvement on Bliss, but there were moments when you think to yourself - "This isn't appropriate", or at least, you could never envisage any former Moneypenny participating in such incidents

    Thing is though, Sam Bond came in at the tail end of the 20th century and on into the new one, and things had become a little more daring or risque, and things weren't as sugar coated as before, at least not with the Lois Maxwell era. Feel I'm going down a blind alley a little on this, but at least some may interpret what was trying to be said
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    Most fans who don't like Dench (me included), dislike her because she was overused, because we got sick of the constant trust issues between her and Craig's Bond, because she became a stubborn, incompetent character (although to be fair that seemed to be the writers intentions in SF) and because we didn't like the surrogate mum angle.

    I think a lot of that overexposure had to do with Dench becoming a bigger international star as the series progressed. Although it wasn't literally his only role, Bernard Lee was not known for anything other than playing M to the vast majority of Bond movie fans. Therefore, a few brief scenes with him was all that was expected or demanded. But with Dench becoming so renowned I think the producers decided to use that star power to perhaps expand the viewership and bring in Dench fans who weren't necessarily Bond fans as well.

    Other than the changing of the dynamic between Bond and M, the bigger reason for more M screen time was M-O-N-E-Y. The more you pay an employee, the more you expect in the way of work. I will be very surprised if this changes when it comes to Fiennes, and we may see more than usual from Harris and Whishaw based on similar circumstances. I know people don't think these characters should take away from the focus on Bond, the villains, and the Bond women, but EON's philosophy at the moment has put the support cast on equal footing. Sam Mendes' recent comments about seeing MP more actively assisting Bond in the field give this some weight as far as factuality.
  • Judi Dench's M worked far better as a foil for Brosnan's Bond than she did for Craig's. Brosnan's Bond was a little boy who never grew up, something of a Peter Pan as James Bond. As such, he needed (and responded well to) the Mother figure that was Dench's M. Craig's Bond was an adult from Day 1 and had no need of Mommy M. I hope Fiennes' M doesn't spend as much time out in the field as Dench's did; he's got the whole world to be watching and an entire service that deserves his attention. Bond is just one agent and doesn't need his boss constantly peering over his shoulder.

    Count me as one more fan with great admiration for the work Robbie Coltrane did as Zukovsy. Jack Wade was fun, but Zukovsky absolutely stole the show in both of his appearances. I was sorry to see him go so soon!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Don't forget the "I know exactly where to put that" when Brosnan brings her a gift in The World Is Not Enough - then throws it in the trash

    I thought (Samanatha) Bond was a decent Moneypenny. A vast improvement on Bliss, but there were moments when you think to yourself - "This isn't appropriate", or at least, you could never envisage any former Moneypenny participating in such incidents

    Thing is though, Sam Bond came in at the tail end of the 20th century and on into the new one, and things had become a little more daring or risque, and things weren't as sugar coated as before, at least not with the Lois Maxwell era. Feel I'm going down a blind alley a little on this, but at least some may interpret what was trying to be said

    Yes, I completely get what you are saying here - there was much more innuendo here than before. I think they played on the past relationship and "moved it up a gear" so to speak. It became much more overtly sexualised, to the point of the Moneypenny virtual sex with Bond in DAD which was just too much and spoiled the whole thing somewhat by being smutty.
  • Judi Dench's M worked far better as a foil for Brosnan's Bond than she did for Craig's. Brosnan's Bond was a little boy who never grew up, something of a Peter Pan as James Bond. As such, he needed (and responded well to) the Mother figure that was Dench's M. Craig's Bond was an adult from Day 1 and had no need of Mommy M. I hope Fiennes' M doesn't spend as much time out in the field as Dench's did; he's got the whole world to be watching and an entire service that deserves his attention. Bond is just one agent and doesn't need his boss constantly peering over his shoulder.

    Amen to that! I can't speak for how much Fiennes will appear as far as office to field ratios, but I already sense a different personal dynamic at work here based on Skyfall. Mallory seems to be more like Lee, much less concerned with Bond the person than the job Bond is doing. He seemed like a no-nonsense character who isn't going to take a personal mentor interest in his mental well being or have the particularly needless trust issues we saw in Skyfall. It's almost like they forgot the last half hour of QOS where it appears she finally trusts him. Another good reason to part company with Purvis and Wade, who created most of Skyfall and proved that their collective brain farting was more than just a baseless opinion that some fans had.

    The important thing to remember with M out in the field is not so much "how much", but for what reason? That's how I always look at it. If it's for a professional reason, it doesn't greatly bother me. TWINE is the ultimate example of M being in the field for the wrong reason, she rushes out to protect and/or mother Elektra because of their personal relationship, ignoring personal danger for herself.

  • Posts: 15,124
    Don't forget the "I know exactly where to put that" when Brosnan brings her a gift in The World Is Not Enough - then throws it in the trash

    I thought (Samanatha) Bond was a decent Moneypenny. A vast improvement on Bliss, but there were moments when you think to yourself - "This isn't appropriate", or at least, you could never envisage any former Moneypenny participating in such incidents

    Thing is though, Sam Bond came in at the tail end of the 20th century and on into the new one, and things had become a little more daring or risque, and things weren't as sugar coated as before, at least not with the Lois Maxwell era. Feel I'm going down a blind alley a little on this, but at least some may interpret what was trying to be said

    I think Samantha Bond played the character well and yes there was chemistry between her and Brosnan, but while she was written at first like a colleague who liked Bond, she ended up in DAD behaving like a stupid groupie.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 11,189
    @sirhenryleechaching

    I think M is the biggest fool in Twine - not Bond.

  • Posts: 15,124
    Judi Dench's M worked far better as a foil for Brosnan's Bond than she did for Craig's. Brosnan's Bond was a little boy who never grew up, something of a Peter Pan as James Bond. As such, he needed (and responded well to) the Mother figure that was Dench's M. Craig's Bond was an adult from Day 1 and had no need of Mommy M. I hope Fiennes' M doesn't spend as much time out in the field as Dench's did; he's got the whole world to be watching and an entire service that deserves his attention. Bond is just one agent and doesn't need his boss constantly peering over his shoulder.

    Amen to that! I can't speak for how much Fiennes will appear as far as office to field ratios, but I already sense a different personal dynamic at work here based on Skyfall. Mallory seems to be more like Lee, much less concerned with Bond the person than the job Bond is doing. He seemed like a no-nonsense character who isn't going to take a personal mentor interest in his mental well being or have the particularly needless trust issues we saw in Skyfall. It's almost like they forgot the last half hour of QOS where it appears she finally trusts him. Another good reason to part company with Purvis and Wade, who created most of Skyfall and proved that their collective brain farting was more than just a baseless opinion that some fans had.

    The important thing to remember with M out in the field is not so much "how much", but for what reason? That's how I always look at it. If it's for a professional reason, it doesn't greatly bother me. TWINE is the ultimate example of M being in the field for the wrong reason, she rushes out to protect and/or mother Elektra because of their personal relationship, ignoring personal danger for herself.

    But M in the field did not start with Judi Dench, it started with Bernard Lee in YOLT. I do think, given Ralph Fiennes's stature as an actor, that he will be used a lot more than Lee or Brown, however I think (and hope!) it may be more as a sort of Mycroft Holmes, being smarter than Bond, able to see things Bond cannot see.
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