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What's really left of Fleming to adapt?

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  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    Ludovico wrote:
    Roughly, I'd say 50%. Even in the early movies, they take out or modify as much as they keep. Some of it because it cannot be adapted, of course, but there is still a lot left that could be used, given the right twist.

    I think this is probably right but, as you allude to, a lot of the adaptation in the early films was done for good, cinematic reasons. There are some unadapted bits of Fleming - like the squid battle that @Wizard mentions - that are probably best left unadapted.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Sir_James_Moloney wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Roughly, I'd say 50%. Even in the early movies, they take out or modify as much as they keep. Some of it because it cannot be adapted, of course, but there is still a lot left that could be used, given the right twist.

    I think this is probably right but, as you allude to, a lot of the adaptation in the early films was done for good, cinematic reasons. There are some unadapted bits of Fleming - like the squid battle that @Wizard mentions - that are probably best left unadapted.

    True. There was also budgetary reasons, I think, especially in the early ones.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    Silva, anyone?

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    echo wrote:
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Something else that came to my mind: Paco ''Pistol'' Scaramanga. Change his family name, change his golden gun to something else, and we have a completely different character. I did not like one bit TMWTGG, that said I loved Christopher Lee's performance. But there is a fair lot left of the novel left to adapt and, AND, the character was so different on screen than in the novel.
    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourite novels, and yes there is plenty of material from this one yet to be adapted.

    As for the Scaramanga character in the novel, the closest we have seen as a screen adaptation is Sanchez in LTK (sharing the same initials too), which comes quite close, but without the overly brash cockiness and theatrical showman that Fleming wrote.

    Silva, anyone?

    His Hispanic background maybe, not much else. I think some of TMWTGG got into Skyfall, but Silva is very different to Scaramanga as a character.
  • RWIG45RWIG45
    Posts: 5
    About all they could do now is remakes with all the new technology and special f/x available today I bet they could do a major great job with Goldfinger if they could find the right Bond for it. Can't be worse that Quantum Of Silence or Skyfall.

    Randy
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited October 2013 Posts: 12,837
    They could have an ending similar to the FRWL novel. Maybe the henchman of Bond 24 survives the final battle and then there's a bit at the end like there is in some of the 70s films, where the henchman comes back at the end to attempt to kill Bond. Except this time while Bond still kills him, the henchman manages to poison Bond and the film ends on a cliffhanger. They'd have to take out the poison blade shoe but it could work.

    Except instead of just surviving with help from a doctor like in the books, the PTS of Bond 25 could pick up from there with a sequence similar to the CR poison sequence with Bond fighting for his life, except instead of using a defibrillator he has to make an antidote using everyday objects (if that's possible for any type of poison, I was crap at chemistry at school).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Oh boy, there's a whole library of stuff to adapt.
    Make new & faithful adaptions of books like the recent CR!
    Leave DN, FRWL, GF & TB out, and simply do the rest!
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I'd like to see Spectreville in a film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I'd like to see Spectreville in a film.
    Seeing "The IPCRESS File" recently and listening to Barry's score for that movie really sounds like Fleming's Diamonds Are Forever.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Murdock wrote:
    Seeing "The IPCRESS File" recently and listening to Barry's score for that movie really sounds like Fleming's Diamonds Are Forever.
    I only saw it once on TV as a little kid.
    I guess I need to see it again....
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Seeing "The IPCRESS File" recently and listening to Barry's score for that movie really sounds like Fleming's Diamonds Are Forever.
    I only saw it once on TV as a little kid.
    I guess I need to see it again....
    It has a western desert setting sound to it.

  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    edited October 2013 Posts: 893
    Well, 'The Diamond Smugglers' came close to being adapted (See Jeremy Duns: http://jeremyduns.net/2010/03/23/from-johannesburg-with-love/) That would make a great film in the right hands.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    So what about post-Spectre? The film had nods to OP, and revived the titular villainous organization, but what else of Fleming is in the film?
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Well, "Risico" and "The Hildebrand Rarity" should be turned into films.
  • lalala2004lalala2004
    Posts: 162
    MR is my favorite Bond novel, and I always thought it was a shame it didn't have a true adaptation. I love me some tasty cheese, but the MR film leaves a lot to be desired.

    That said, it's a story so obviously set in another time. Then again, so is CR, and they did a solid job of adapting it with DC.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    Well, "Risico" and "The Hildebrand Rarity" should be turned into films.

    A lot of "Risico" was used in FYEO, including the characters of Columbo and Kristatos.

    @TheWizardofIce mentioned earlier the Rolex knuckleduster scene from On Her Majesty's Secret Service. I agree that it would be good to throw this in (substituting an Omega, of course), although every time I think of this scene, I find my gaze going down to my poor defenceless Rolex and inwardly shudder at the thought. It's a bit like imagining yourself as Bond in the circular saw episode from Goldfinger (crosses legs).

    An aspect of the stories "Quantum of Solace" and "The Hildebrand Rarity" shows Bond with a more human side and a genuine compassion for the plight of his fellow man -- which is something that rarely, if ever, comes out in other stories or novels. It would be interesting to bring out this side of Bond in a movie.

  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Well, the titles could be used. I mean, we had Quantum of Solace as a film, which wasn't at all related to the short story.
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited November 2015 Posts: 354
    I think the character of Gala Brand would be a good character to use, whether or not in the context of a Moonraker type story. It would be good for Bond to encounter a woman that doesn't necessarily fall for him because her heart is promised to another, and all she wants is a "real" relationship rather than a quick fling with Bond, no matter how exciting and dangerous he may be. As she stands in the novel, Brand is not a particularly memorable heroine, so the movie version could easily take liberties with her (sic) to give her more depth and appeal. Now that would be a screenwriter's challenge!

    It's been a few years since I read Moonraker, but I seem to recall a somewhat crestfallen Bond at the end who is left to think out his place in the world, so this would certainly be a first for a movie.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    echo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote:
    What did they really adapt from Fleming? Very little if you look at it from the hard view of percentages. There's a hell of a lot of Fleming left...don't believe otherwise.
    They've adapted the greater part of seven books (CR, LALD, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, OP/TLD). They've adapted about 1/2 of DAF, FYEO, and (thanks to SF) maybe 1/3 of YOLT and TMWTGG. MR was loosely adapted originally but has since been attempted under various guises (GE, DAD, the stock scheme in CR). TSWLM cannot be officially adapted although there are tidbits in the Jaws character.

    There's not a ton of Fleming material remaining.

    Why ?
    Pierceuhhh wrote: »
    Griffin Or

    Huh ?
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    echo wrote: »
    So what about post-Spectre? The film had nods to OP, and revived the titular villainous organization, but what else of Fleming is in the film?

    They (sorta) name dropped THR which was nice
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited November 2015 Posts: 6,396
    dragonsky wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote:
    What did they really adapt from Fleming? Very little if you look at it from the hard view of percentages. There's a hell of a lot of Fleming left...don't believe otherwise.
    They've adapted the greater part of seven books (CR, LALD, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, OP/TLD). They've adapted about 1/2 of DAF, FYEO, and (thanks to SF) maybe 1/3 of YOLT and TMWTGG. MR was loosely adapted originally but has since been attempted under various guises (GE, DAD, the stock scheme in CR). TSWLM cannot be officially adapted although there are tidbits in the Jaws character.

    There's not a ton of Fleming material remaining.

    Why ?

    Because Fleming stipulated as part of the deal with EON that none of TSWLM could ever be adapted for the screen.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2015 Posts: 6,304
    I'm sure MGW and Babs could negotiate with the IFP for TSWLM rights (even though they've sort of been "inspired by" parts of the story already).

    But it seems that Eon doesn't really want to pay more for literary Bond and instead wants to go with their own stories, even as they may have been inspired by Colonel Sun, License Renewed, etc.

    Here's a British copyright law, or perhaps a contract law, question: does Eon have to pay more when crediting "in Ian Fleming's [name of novel]" as opposed to "as Ian Fleming's James Bond"? Does a novel cost more to use than a character?

    I still fail to understand why MR is "Ian Fleming's Moonraker" and CR is not "Ian Fleming's Casino Royale."
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I want to see the Hildebrand Rairity used including the fish death scene.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    dragonsky wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    So what about post-Spectre? The film had nods to OP, and revived the titular villainous organization, but what else of Fleming is in the film?

    They (sorta) name dropped THR which was nice

    It made me wonder if Bond 25 will be titled... The Hildebrand Rarity.

    A very long shot I admit... But still.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    While most of THR has yet to be used, I think a more compelling title would be The Property of a Lady. Yes, I know the egg & Sotheby's setting was used in OP...but the title is still out there & was being considered for Dalton's third outing as 007. It could still see the light of day (with a whole new storyline, of course...)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    While most of THR has yet to be used, I think a more compelling title would be The Property of a Lady. Yes, I know the egg & Sotheby's setting was used in OP...but the title is still out there & was being considered for Dalton's third outing as 007. It could still see the light of day (with a whole new storyline, of course...)

    It could work as a title.

    At the start of the next film Bond and Madeline are living together and he has resigned the service and is living under the thumb - hence Property of a Lady

    Then Ernst escapes and kills Madeline and Bond is forced to pull on the shoulder and realises there is he only one lady he is truly the property of - Her Majesty the Queen.

    You can have that for free P&W.

  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    MR and FAVTAK seem to me the only stories left with any real content that can be used.

    The whole Bond/Drax dynamic has never really been done, and Blades would be an interesting venue for Fiennes 'M' character exploration...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    AceHole wrote: »
    MR and FAVTAK seem to me the only stories left with any real content that can be used.

    The whole Bond/Drax dynamic has never really been done, and Blades would be an interesting venue for Fiennes 'M' character exploration...

    Yes, though I'd also add TSWLM and YOLT to that list as well.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    MR and FAVTAK seem to me the only stories left with any real content that can be used.

    The whole Bond/Drax dynamic has never really been done, and Blades would be an interesting venue for Fiennes 'M' character exploration...

    Yes, though I'd also add TSWLM and YOLT to that list as well.

    Yes but apart from the heroine's name what is really useable in TSWLM?

    The villains names might have been ok in the 50s but they are appallingly cliched now as are the characters of Sluggsy and Horror.

    The most you could make out of TSWLM is Bond and meets the girl at a motel and there's a fight.

    Those people who advocate that this plot could be the basis for a whole film really don't seem to have the slightest grasp of the economics behind the film industry.

    There's barely enough story in the novel to sustain a PTS - and a pretty dull one at that. There's no way EON would touch this with a bargepole.

    Although it would be interesting to know if they even could if they wanted to? Does the Fleming ban on adapting it last forever? Do EON just own the title not the content? Does this mean IFP could sell the content to another Mcclory to adapt as long as they came up with a different title?

    Can't see why EON would offer IFP a massive amount of money to get the rights to a story they will never adapt except if there's the spectre of a rival on the horizon.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    MR and FAVTAK seem to me the only stories left with any real content that can be used.

    The whole Bond/Drax dynamic has never really been done, and Blades would be an interesting venue for Fiennes 'M' character exploration...

    Yes, though I'd also add TSWLM and YOLT to that list as well.

    Yes but can they really be used for a film? Spy and what's left of Yolt don't strike me as movie material.
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